Golem

[zitro1987]

I see high movement and first strike as compromises for the need to reduce armor (already proven to be an early-game issue). It'd be an interesting unit and would not obsolete hammerhands's hand-to-hand capabilities.

[Seravy]

For my next test game I'll go with the 4 movement 6 armor option (playing draconians, but I might find dwarf cities  or enemies).
That makes them roughly equivalent to a Stag Beetle, but the added first strike and immunities make it slightly better despite the lack of breath, so the current 180 cost seems fair.

[Catwalk]

It's silly to turn it into a cavalry unit. It's a tank. Speed 3, armor 7 and 25 health.

[Arnuz]

In my current game golems with the slight armor reduction have served me well without being early empire smashers. I haven't gone straight to golems, though, I've favoured city building. I think that an AG would be overkill, maybe a maritime guild? No, only sea places building golems is silly... Maybe alchemist? It's still a decent delay. Your idea that even AG is a cheap investment for dwarves is strange Seravy, even an alchemist feels like a lot to me, because I need speed. Sure, if you start with a goldmine in your city land that's different, but that's hardly a guarantee.

Whatever you do, please don't make them useless against ranged magic attackers - that's their only role to merole, if they don't have that they won't be used at all, as halberdiers do more.

I agree that it shouldn't be a masked cavalry, that'd suck.

Crazy idea. To help with flying magical ranged units. How about dropping their manage as much as needed for balance purpose and giving them 1 casting of web, like giant spiders? That makes their role even more detailed and specialised. Or, a minor thrown attack. Or a very weak boulder. Then they could even go down to 2 speed without fear for the impossibility to run after flyers running away, if balance required that.

[Arnuz]

OK, I've now read the thread that originated this one and can follow a bit better. I'll answer here.

Dwarves are unfixable without an armorer's guild nerf and that was rejected 5 to 0 so no point in a dwarf thread at this point. Even if we nerf dwarves to 0% bonus in all areas, and make golems require the armorer's guild, people can still get golems and hammerhands too early as we didn't fix the AG problem. So here the only thing to discuss is, how much we nerf golems, because they are a problem independent of the early game AG issue - a magic immunity unit can still conquer most AI cities alone in the mid or late game because the AI prefers magicians as defenders in most cases.
...unless you are trying to imply the Dwarf race bonus is too high even if not used for early game unfair wins through accelerated high end units?

I'm also unwilling to start over and discuss the role of buffs again, we just recently did that when updating Dispelling Wave, besides it's not even related. (an Armorer's Guild unit in the early game is a problem even if not buffed, and buffs don't work vs Poison, we made sure of that in the upcoming 5.03 update. So buffing is already taken care of. (unless you are worried buffing is underpowered now?))


A "luck" thread is too generic and gives me no real answers on any particular specific issue we still have open. Also, we already know the "answer". Luck plays a large, huge, role in this game, inherently. Your spells, generation of AI wizards, diplomacy rolls, treasure, many of these are complete game changers on their own. Reducing the luck factor on most of these is not even possible. Discussing specific issues where reducing (doubt anyone wants to increase it?) the luck factor is possible would be meaningful instead. (If you have any besides starting minerals, feel free to open threads for them)

In short I'm ok with a "warlord+tactician" and a "how to nerf golems" thread, the rest feels unnecessary unless you have specific new problems to discuss in those categories.
(also, I'm definitely not happy with putting the Dwarf race into the "unfixable" category but we exhausted all options. In fact we only ever had one, nerfing the armorer's guild. As long as every race suffers from the same problem, fixing it exclusively on the race that gets an advantage in that category is impossible.)

Edit : made the two new threads.

Someone else in that thread has mentioned something like "AG is not so good if you don't also have built a War College along with it". I feel that that is the trick/solution: making WC a requirement for AG fixes golems straight away, no nerf needed.

I would just suggest that if this is done, then cities with razed buildings in invasions shouldn't destroy the dependent buildings as well, otherwise we'll never get an AG by invading given the likelihood to raze either it or one of its requirements.

[Seravy]

I rejected that idea though.
The player should be given the choice to build their units with or without additional levels.

[Arnuz]

Even elite units? Questionable, but I missed where you rejected it so never mind