Test games played

[Seravy]

I wouldn't produce that unit unless I'm playing Chaos or maybe Death. The latter only if I expect to face a large amount of low resistance units that get turned to undead by Life Drain.
I suppose it's better than swordsmen but I don't think I use Dark Elf swordsmen much either.

My main problem with 10 is it very strongly favors some realms over others. Chaos gets the amazing Shatter-Warp Creature-Fire Bolt-Disrupt-Warp Wood toolbox. Death gets the semi-decent Life Drain+Weakness. But Nature? Web only which is...meh in a swordmen vs swordsmen level fight. I mean, it's not a bad thing to have but it can't compare to chaos or death. Sorcery gets Guardian Wind+Resist Magic, which is kinda even worse than having web only. Life gets holy armor which...isn't that hot for a ranged race, and holy weapon which...doesn't boost magical ranged attacks I believe. And Bless. Bless is good but very situational...

Also we can't assume the player has every spell in a realm. If only two spells in a realm can be used by the unit, the chance of not knowing any is fairly high if playing something like 4+4 book setups.

[Arnuz]

I think it's fine to favour some realm with a race as it gives flavour. The other realms are not completely excluded, but that makes the race be particularly apt at something.

Besides, it seems to me that the problem is not so big. Nature gets resist elements too, which is a fantastic buff... Also, web can be followed by cracks call, and AHHH ok nevermind let's not do this. Joking, you see my point With 12, nature gets faerie fire, life gets star fires. But I like 10 more frankly. Also for heroes' shout, a normal unit shouldn't be able to cast that and it's on the cheap side imho. Maybe make it caster 11 and reduce aether/star fires by 1?

Also, situational is what such a unit is for. You defend with ad hoc spells without wasting precious overland skill: attacked by archers? Zac, here comes guardian wind, saved. Death wizard? Bless. Sprites? Resist elements... And so on. I would be worried about this as an attacker, and it should be properly assessed in strategic combat.

4+4 setups: not an issue, if you don't have any cheap spell you fubar'd your initial choice. Restart, learn and do it better. Or choose another race...

[Nelphine]

Yup I'd see this replacing say large shield and 1 armor. Its still a swordsmen. It still does swordsmen roles, but it has a bit more offense or defense (or much better, support) than a standard swordsmen.

And web? Suddenly your swordsmen are super imporrant to go along with certain summons, like, great lizards or war bears.

[zitro1987]

Swordsman getting 10 caster and halberdiers 15 may then work.

*We can always lower star fires and aether spark cost by 1 and reduce their damage by 1-2 points (0.3-0.6 dmg).
*We can increase warp creature cost to 12-13 but enhance the resistance modifier by 1 ... or even increase to 15 but enhance the modifier by 2

If a combination of the two are done, it no longer benefits chaos.

[Seravy]

4+4 setups: not an issue, if you don't have any cheap spell you fubar'd your initial choice. Restart, learn and do it better. Or choose another race...

Most of the spells I tend to pick cost 15-20...except Web and Chaos spells of course.

Zombies, centaurs, confusion, phantom warriors, black sleep, healing...

Dark Elves already go well with Chaos and Death, not sure if it's a good idea to push that even further.

We have time to think about this, as I'm about to start the next game and it'll be High Men first.
Planning to do 10 Nature Conjurer Specialist first, and something with Life next.

[Nelphine]

None of those spells are on my list for what to start with. Different playstyles.

[Seravy]

Started the game, Nature first.

   


Red is Tenshi, Maniacal Theurgist, Life, Chaos Warlord.
No contact with purple yet but it's Seravy so probably a combination of Nature and Life books.

Blue circles are sprite compatible nodes. A very good start...if I can avoid a war with red, or hold those nodes against her.  Going to war against a warlord early is a high price to pay for those nodes but well worth it I hope. My race won't be able to handle it for a while but that's what my spiders are for.

Neutrals, the one closest to red is a large Elf city, can't beat it for a while. The other two are pop 1 barbarian and pop 3 gnoll. Will send some sprites for these after the nodes, albeit others might do it first.

Already researched Giant Spiders, now rushing Water Walking to allow my settler to go to red's continent. If I want to hold anything there, I'm going to need to be able to summon directly on the continent. There is an Orihalcon in the middle desert region, I want to build on that (pop 13, not very good but orihalcon magicians are huge!)

...Seravy has 5 Nature 1 Life 4 Death Alchemy Famous. I guess that's good for trading, and peaceful militarist too so no major threat of war. Unless I summon too much spiders and end up on equal military which sadly is a real possibility.

While I have gold for settlers, I don't really see all that much good places to send them to.

Of all things a stack of 9 yellow hell hounds show up next to the node I'm attacking with my 2 sprites. It's Suika, 10 Chaos, 1 Death 1 Sorcery book. Chaotic Theurgist. Maybe this won't be an easy game at all. Fortunately they need 2 turns to actually reach the node so I might get it first.

Purple was first on the adamantium desert...I actually don't know where to send one of my settlers now...and I haven't even produced that many. The pop 8 tundra isn't very attractive and everything else I see is taken. Even if I could find a new place, it'd be like 20 tiles away...

Suika is playing Orcs. Tenshi too. Seravy is Nomads but he is the only one I rather not attack early. Orcs hate High Men so I might actually need to seriously consider razing and building High Men cities instead, if an early fight breaks out.

As soon as allowed, Suika declares war (we have opposite alignment) and Tenshi turns hostile, fortunately my call centaurs saves my settler from being killed by magic spirits. I decide to save that extra settler and raze whatever city I get from Tenshi first. That's a long time ahead though, haven't even summoned my first spider yet. The settler still haven't made it to a spot where I can build and summon...

[Seravy]

   

As it's now perfectly visible, I started on an island, surrounded by the other 3 wizards. Bad luck, but the nodes might make up for it. Meanwhile I found even more sprite compatible ones but they are very far away and I actually don't have all that many sprites...had to leave at least one on all the previous nodes...oh this reminds me, I'm probably going to lose those soon... I really need to get those spiders done ASAP.
Sprites might help getting early stuff but they don't help holding them...

[Arnuz]

Dark Elves already go well with Chaos and Death, not sure if it's a good idea to push that even further.

How do DEs work well with death btw? Master+ they're literally the last myrran race I'd choose for a ghouls game:

• dwarves give resources and some moevement
  
• draconians mmm... not much, but some quickish early scouting for easy resources/colonisation
  
• beastmen give more growth (resources) quicker
  
• ...trolls at least give a sturdy mage eventually
  

DEs mana bonus doesn't get in play until after you've won or lost and their magic attacks just prevent you from creating undead.

Chaos kind of suffers of the same issue: they're a super slow race, the combination with a strong late realm means that you die powerless unless you find a way to get diplomacy without any spell exchange (as your opponents have probably more spells).

I'd say that the proposed change could actually give DEs finally something to bring to the realms they're supposed to work well with.

On this note: after Nelphine's thoughts I'd like to propose to go further, and exchange the DE useless magic shot for a Caster K. Say, 5-7 the spearmen, 8-11 the swordsmen and 12-15 the halberdiers. Exact number subject to balance, I'd really prefer it to be low where the alternative is to raise costs.

[Seravy]

You have a naturally invisible unit so you can take advantage of that to kill things with combat spells without needing armies. And they provide power for it.

...exchange? Not in addition? That makes the units significantly weaker...doubt even a Fire Bolt can make up for losing 4 shots from 6 figures.