[SPOILER] [PB38] OT4E plays this one because lurking around takes too much time

[OT4E]

My tier ranking is based on personal feelings and will hardly be changed before I have a chance to play in that mod.

I like how you changed AGG, but removing lighthouse from ORG will make it more "late game" civic instead of being balanced, so I dont like it though I dont think the nerf is big. CRE needs something more to be useful during whole game.. Impact of additional hammer on specialist for PHI I cant really measure. I think that the idea is creative but I doubt it is enough to make it work.

[OT4E]

Few considerations about playing with 24 rivals. Imho mostly everything depends on the neighbors. You cant just sit and hope you can win. So consequently you must be good in some kind of insight allowing you to see opportunities and weaknesses of the closest opponents. OTOH it doesnt mean it is good idea to declare war to everyone.

Also as you mentioned there must be heavy competition for the most important wonders, so please prevent me from trying too many. I often start unnecessary races and lose advantage I have gained in the necessary ones.

[chumchu]

I can be the voice of sanity to your attack everyone while getting all the wonders. I completely agree that we will need to win some form early aggression to stay competitive in a game like this. I think the earlier the better honestly.

[RefSteel]

Here are the choices we rolled for you - when you've decided whether to keep the civ or reroll it, and which (if either) of the leaders you want to keep, post the inforrmation here to let us know.

Options:
Gilgamesh (Cre/Pro)
Qin Shi Huang (Ind/Pro)
Germany

Your start:

The essential form of the BFC may be relied upon, though we might still make superficial changes e.g. to whether the trees are deciduous, conifers, or snowy, and we might imaginably even rotate the whole thing 90 degrees or something since the surrounding terrain is still being finalized. The corner tiles may yet change, and the fog is a fabric of lies, but at least you've got your start!

Also, in case it's not obvious due to the resource icon partly blocking the yield icons, note that your elephants live in a forest.

[chumchu]

Quick thoughs on the start.
1) it is a very lush start which probably indicates that the lushness level will be RB-normal.

2) Desired starting techs would be ag/min or ag/wheel then ag/anything or maybe min/wheel. There are a lot of things I would prefer to the hu/min of germany. I'm not sold on their uniques either, I rate them as decent improvements that come way too late. There are 19 civs I would prefer over germany, 5 that are similar and 9 I would feel worse about. (mainly fishing starts). That gives us a 63% to improve and 30% to fall down which is good odds for a re-roll.

3) On the leaders. I feel they are both below average.Neither of us rate CRE and IND is worse than usual with this many players. On synergy, Gilgamesh should be very easy to defend with early game but there is no real economy bonus to speak of. Qin Shi Huang also have no real economy unless we land a crucial wonder. We could go for pottery into oracling MC (or machinery if we find commerce resources and are slightly crazy. Getting watermills out on our capital would be great.) or maybe mausolleum. I would be inclined to throw away Gilgamesh and probably Qin Shi Huang.

[OT4E]

Cool, lets start.

My first impression was to reroll everything, but leets keep heads also cool. We've got 2 PRO- leaders. PRO is good and I agree that it makes mid-late game defenses much easier, though before starting to defend from all sides you need to gain something special to make everyone want to attack you.

QIN got tier 2 and tier 3 traits in my ranking. In fact it is a kind of the so-so leaders. Granary and forge is 2 first positions you want to make in every city but it lacks eco for comfort development. IND allows you to focus your strategy on specific wonder but looking at the start I dont think that I need something except workers and spears to make it work. Start is rich and doesnt show any sign of water. So I doubt Colossus or TGLH will be relevant. Also no need in pyramids when you can get your cap to size 20 and make 17 cottages. MoM is not overpowered in this mod. So its either Oracling something or grabbing something like Henge and HG to improve expansion. I am considering this but right now I tend to gamble for something with EXP.

Gilga got tier 2 and tier 4 traits in my rankings. This mostly comes from the fact that there is no way to turn CRE into something good in late game. Qin with IND and Henge looks more attractive.

Germany... I will need to check what UU and UB it gets in the mod but as I remember thats nothing worth almost as original germany in plain BTS. Though Germany has strong starting techs: Hunting and Mining. Thats why I think we must consider Germany too. But we need to find out whats the best for this opening first.

[OT4E]

Crossposting

Checked changelog. Assembly plant is available at Steam power. UU is cannon with 20 hammer cost decrease. Well I never rely on cannons and when I get to them usually it is not important how much they cost. Though it is interesting whether trebuchets upgrade into them for free or for 20 gold. Factories available at Steam power is strong buff indeed especially with discount when you have coal.

I dont have ranking for civs ready. Need to think about it more. Of course ones with myst or fish will be bad, others I think pretty equal if you consider only techs. In fact there is enough time to research Agri while building worker so you dont need to have it from start as must. And min/agri is rare combination. Also I am not sure about wheel is it good or bad to have it from start.

[OT4E]

Hunting gives a discount to AH and will let us build pasture on horses if we have them around. AH we need to improve elephants anyway.

Mining obviously opens road to BW and there are several hills to mine before chopping becomes available.

[OT4E]

I have created sandbox if you want to test something out.

[chumchu]

My idea for this start with pro leader was going for early pottery and chopping granaries to speed up growth therefore mining/agri/wheel seems like the best. Hunting is usually good but maybe not in this start- Unless we have no bronze or no other happy I see AH as a later consideration. It is not worth it to tech it early for the improved tile. Hunting might be otoh needed for the second city but we can not really know that. With this much food I think that a second city might be sharing the rice.

I'm against sticking with Germany but if we do then we should re-roll both leaders to get some power trait to propel us to a powerful late game position where we get to use their bonii.