Iron Working and Wheel at halfway point, now going Construction as discussed. I started with Masonry, eagerly awaiting the boost for HBR
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Japper and Cornflakes' team thread
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I swapped to HBR this turn, it will complete in 7. On IW I think I'm 1 turn short of 50% which will work perfectly. You'll have the eureka for me by the time I complete HBR and I can then finish IW in time for the end of the enforced peace.
Forgot to send you a gold trade. I'm planning to send you 220 gold for the upgrade of two warriors. And I should have 180 for my two warriors by the time the peace ends. Might as well get the gold distributed in case they press the attack in 10 turns, but I do think we should hold off on actually upgrading unless they press another attack. I can't imagine they would try another attack in 10 turns. Surely they know that they would never have a better opportunity than before they offered peace?
Thinking long-term with our gold ... Working with the assumption that I prep in Total War mode for a war declaration in 40 turns, we have about 35 turns worth of gold generation to work with before I pull the trigger on upgrades and start moving to the front. Say 20
 /turn * 35 turns = 700. Add in the current 300 [assuming we don't need to upgrade to swords/UU 10 10 turns] and we'll have 1000 gold to spend on upgrades.Crossbow upgrade cost: 190 / 95 with Professional ArmyKnight upgrade cost: 180 / 90 with Professional ArmyAssuming a 50/50 split between Knights/Crossbows on the attack the 1000:gold will buy us 5 upgrades of each. Meaning the target ancient army I need is 5 heavy chariots + 5 archers. Should be Tech goals are Machinery, Military Engineering, and Stirrups (probably in that order). Civics target is Mercenaries for Professional Army. Let's check the timing on these goals. The good news is that every eureka is easily achievable, therefore the tech/civics costs I list below are at the 50% cost. Tech: HBR (60) > Finish IW > Wheel (40) > Engineering (100) [get Aqueduct started for ME eureka] > Machinery (138) > Construction (100) > Military Engineering (168) > Stirrups (180). Total 786  requiredCivics: D&P (55) > G&R (55) > Defensive Tactics (88) > Military Training (60) > Feudalism (138) > Mercenaries (145). Total 541  requiredCurrent rates: 9.2 /turn ... 7.6/turnCurrent science research time: 786/9.2 = 85 turns. Much too long. Would need to double the science rate immediately. Ok, this is impossible. Cut out Construction and Military Engineering and we get 518/9.2 = 56.3. Is it within the realm of possibility to get this down to 40 turns through population growth alone? No, I will need to come up with an additional source of science fast to make a 40 turn deadline. Current civics research time: 541/7.6 = 71.18 ... Unfortunately this also is much too long, and there is no fat to cut out here ... other than me immediately stopping research of D&P, but that only saves time if you can get me the eureka for G&R in the next 6 turns which I don't think is possible. Culture is a little easier to fix than Science though because monuments are available for cash buys. If I immediately buy a monument in the next 2 cities on the turn they are planted we will be able to hit a 50 turn deadline ... and in the extra 10 turns we'll make up the difference in gold to still have 1000 available for upgrades.So now back to Science. Can I shave off 7 turns with just natural population growth to hit a 50 turn deadline? Back-of-the-envelope calcs say this will work, especially since I have an iron mine to work. It looks like fireworks will be kicking off at the border in 50 turns 
January 23rd, 2018, 15:01
(This post was last modified: January 23rd, 2018, 15:11 by Cornflakes.)
 (January 23rd, 2018, 13:18)Japper007 Wrote: Keep in mind that currently I'm still sending you 15 GPT, makes sure you don't go bankrupt even for a turn when that deal ends. The game instanly penalises you with negative amenities and deletes units! Excellent point. I'll keep that in mind as the time draws near. Pulling out an important point from the post above before going into more detail on the production side of the war preparations ... How long will it take you go get a water mill online for the Construction and G&R eureka? I will need it in 10-12 turns to avoid wasting culture. Consider chopping into the settler for the +50% to speed up the watermill afterwards? Ok, now a look at production ... Here is what I need:
and +1 and +1  in the capital are not insignificant at this stage of the game. It could easily shave off 3-4 turns on the overall tech/civic research time, and will single-handedly provide enough production for one of the needed Heavy Chariots. It might be worth it to first run Classical Republic for a 6-10 turns with Ilkum + Urban Planning while building the 2 builders, but otherwise I'm going to use Autocracy. [EDIT: looking at this again, if the only purpose is to slot in Urban Planning, I'll get the same +1 in the capital from Autocracy, I'd rather slot Autocracy immediately for the extra science & culture which are currently the limiting factors]Looking at just the capital and assuming no growth at all, but with the (+1) from each of Urban Planning + Autocracy I'll get 10*50 = 500 . This will get me Settler (115) > Builder (55) > Encampment (120) > Stable (80) ... leaving 130 which is enough for 3 Heavy Chariots. From pop growth I will probably be able to squeeze out one more HC over the next 50 turns.Looking at the 2nd city ... assume founded in 5 turns, +10 turns first growth, +10 turns 2nd growth and stagnate will yield total approximately 300 . This will get me Builder (55) > 2x Archer (80) > Walls (40 + chop) > Battering Ram (completed with overflow) > Heavy Chariot (44) > ??? about 80 leftover. Could build an additional 2 HC or archer for upgrade in the turns following the start of the war, or could build a backup ram.Looking at 3rd city ... assume founded in 15 turns, same growth as above, will yield total approximately 200 . Builder (80 since no Ilkum) > ??? Another builder, this time with 5 charges? Followed by an Aqueduct to boost Military Engineering.TL;DR ... We'll have plenty of production on a 50-turn timeline to build the necessary infrastructure and units.
I was planning on chopping the jungle marked "commercial hub" to both clear the space for said district and use the production multiplier of colonization. That will be the Builders second move, after the Iron mine that'll give the both of us Wheel and Iron Working, of course. I'll check on the water mill timing when next ingame, for now I think the 10-12 turn mark is feasable if I switch from Pantanal to Jungle tiles.
You have put up an impressive micro-plan, I'm sorry to say that such precise calculations are a bit above me though. I accept your agrument for Autocracy, it seems to be better than I thought.
January 24th, 2018, 10:23
(This post was last modified: January 24th, 2018, 10:23 by Japper007.)
Builder done, moved to the Iron mine as discussed.
Settler is 6 turns/110 hammers currently. Water mill is 80. Capital production is 12.5 so water mill will take at most 6.4 turns even without chop (I had to actually break out a calculator for that, shame on me). I don't know what the jungle chop is at currently, let alone once I finish two more techs next turn. I'll easely pull of the 12 turn mark though, no worries! Probably a lot faster than that. ![[Image: 20180124161820_1.jpg]](https://s10.postimg.org/ffismjie1/20180124161820_1.jpg) Look what my scouting Warrior in the West found. Another Spice tile  it is far way though. I'm surprised I haven't found whatever team is there yet, are they just not scouting at all?
Your jungle chop is probably worth around 20
and 20 right now. In spoiler I put a screenshot of the chop table I made a while back using the formula on CivFanatics. Chop value scales with the number of techs/civics researched. I find that almost always the tech cost is the limiting factor in my games so the table is only valid based on the techs. For a civ with high culture rate the chop value may be higher.Barbs have made their appearance in the north. I should have enough force to take out the camp and heal up any damages before the war resumes. I might even be able to earn the first promotion on all the archers. Woden is now making 2 GG points per turn. ETA on his GGeneral is currently 23 turns. I'll need to have a strong enough defense by that point to make me an un-inviting target at that point so they don't declare war on me prematurely. On the other hand I wouldn't mind starting on the defensive, killing their army in the field, and then pressing on the attack afterwards. Here is an overview shot since it has been a while (after taking this I may have changed my mind and moved the damaged warrior to heal in the capital). 10 turns to D&P currently, will cut off probably a turn with the new city + monument purchase. Then about 5 turns to 50% on G&R so you'll get me the boost in plenty of time. I use the calculator all the time even for simple math  Maybe I'm just lazyOne thing I am considering is whether to offer W/CMF a DoF. The only concern I have is that it signals a 30 turn countdown for them to build up military. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind them building up military 20 turns before I'm planning to attack. I think I can have enough archers built with enough gold in the bank for upgrades at that time to dissuade them from attacking. I would not renew after the 30 turns, but wouldn't attack immediately so maybe they'd be lulled out of suspicion. The worst thing they could do to derail my attack is to attack earlier in 15-20 turns and force us to burn gold on full-price upgrade to swords rather than 50% upgrades to Knights/Xbows. A DoF avoids this by kicking the can down the road another 15 turns. At that point I have all the infrastructure completed, already have all my archers out and a couple of HC. If I had to burn gold for 1-2 full price Xbows at that point it would hurt but not be detrimental. The next order of planning is the site for the Encampment. I was originally thinking YELLOW (2) above which will really secure the north flank and allow me to put most of my units down to the east and south where my other cities will be and where there is more room for me to maneuver. After looking at it again though I'm not so sure this is the best because it will make it much more cramped for your aid in the north/west. I'm considering RED (1) now as another alternative. The downside to that spot is that it burns either a builder charge or a the plows over the jungle without getting to chop it. Right now I think I'm using every single on of my builder charges in order to get the Feudalism eureka.ORANGE (3) is a valid spot that would save a plains hill, but I already have more PH's than I have surplus food to work them so not a big deal that I cover one with the Encampment. I would much rather have the encampment on a hill to be able to shoot over the rough terrain surrounding me. Overall right now my leaning is to put it at RED (1) to make your logistics easier. Hopefully it won't be needed, but just in case ...
I think "1" is the better location, if you put it at "2" units can still hide behind the mountain.
If you have enough production, you can sacrifice a hill, it makes an Encampment almost a second city in terms of defense. I don't think 1 is a very good location though. And definetely chop the jungle first, the food matters besides the hammers, especially with as you said a poor food surplus at your capital.
Location 1 it is ... Looking at the builder charges I will need a 4th builder. The chop will go into the next settler speeding up that city by a couple of turns and making it so I can stay at size 4 so it will certainly help. I'll then go double builders in Ilkum ... If the settler is out too early I can put cogs into the Encampment while waiting on the policy swap.
Updated production list:
Capital 500 ... Settler (115) > Builder (55) > Builder (60) > walls (chop/free) > Encampment (120) > ... leaving 150 which is enough for 3 Heavy Chariots. Or build an encampment project if needed to secure the GG2nd city 300 ... This will get me Builder (55) > 2x Archer (80) > Walls (40 + chop) > Battering Ram (completed with overflow) > ??? about 120 leftover. Could build additional military, or a backup ram. With 2 empires to fight there's no such thing as too much muscle.Looking at 3rd city ... assume founded in 15 turns, same growth as above, will yield total approximately 200 . Builder (60 still in Ilkum) > 2x HC > Aqueduct to boost Military Engineering.[/quote] |