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Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread

Turn 57

Score report is out of date, to be done tomorrow morning. I had good intentions of doing it tonight, but I ran out of time:
    
Player Score ScoreCivicEmpireGreat PeopleReligionTechWonders
Japper55122100220
Emperor K88144464200
BRickAstley81164500200
Woden5610300 0160
Chevalier57122500200
Singaboy992035342215
The Archduke59102900200
Cornflakes53161234180
                                                                                                                                                                   
RankingsTech|ScienceCultureDominationReligiousGPT
Japper11|13.5Icon_Science6.7Icon_Culture851Icon_Faith 245|1Icon_Gold
Emperor K10|11Icon_Science14Icon_Culture10511Icon_Faith130|14Icon_Gold
BRickAstley10|17.9Icon_Science23.3Icon_Culture1791Icon_Faith19|11Icon_Gold
Woden7|13.8Icon_Science7Icon_Culture1931Icon_Faith65|3Icon_Gold
Chevalier10|10Icon_Science7Icon_Culture2180Icon_Faith 73|10.4Icon_Gold
Singaboy11|13?Icon_Science?Icon_Culture57?Icon_Faith?|?Icon_Gold
The Archduke10|11Icon_Science12.7Icon_Culture1500Icon_Faith213|26Icon_Gold
Cornflakes9|9.2Icon_Science7.6Icon_Culture1073Icon_Faith227|21Icon_Gold
   
   
   
   
   
   
Great People GenAdmEngMerProSciWriArtMus
Japper 0|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.013|1.00|0.00|0.00|0.0
Emperor K 0|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.0-|0.00|0.014|274|274|2
BRickAstley 0|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.04|1.00|0.00|0.00|0.0
Woden 24|2.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.0
Chevalier 0|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.0
Singaboy 0|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.0-|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.0
The Archduke 0|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.023|1.00|0.00|0.00|0.0
Cornflakes 0|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.0-|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.00|0.0


Scores are updated! Some interesting things:

Archduke is building a commercial hub in his second city, and he's received a Great Work from Emperor. That's why his culture is so impressive. I hadn't thought about it, but that's another way I might be able to use my archaeologists - I can stuff Woden with artifacts, too. Basically, I'm not worried about losing to a culture victory. If the game lasts into the renaissance and industrial eras, we can hold our own culturally. 

Sullla has built two campuses, Emperor is building a campus in his second city. Really need to start getting districts down soon.

Again, I largely agree with Woden - Rome/China are leading, but that's mostly a product of Rome's superior expansion and China's wonder-building. Our scores should start spiking soon as we switch to infrastructure-mode, while hopefully Team Empire has to build at least a little military to stop our incoming "attack."


Let's take a look at Team Empire, shall we? Here's what I explored this turn:






More Chinese borders to the west. I'd like to contact their cultural state, but I may not be able to get around China to do it. Furthermore, if they've settled close to each other - and with so many cities, I think they have - I may not be able to get through at all. What should I do in that case?


Well, I've been noodling over how to speed up my dash to defensive tactics. The Limes-powered chops that will enable are the single biggest way I can see to give my economy a shot in the arm and speed up my growth curve. So, I need someone to declare war on me, and with DOFs with both our neighbors (yay!), that someone has to be Sullla or Singaboy. With that in mind, I think I can make my scout annoying enough for them to kill it purely to stop. If I can't get through to keep scouting, I'll trade the scout for a bunch of free culture - 10 turn's worth, in fact! I can pillage roads, threaten traders, block their movements, pretend to pillage improvements or snatch workers in a bid to get them to declare war. If they cotton on and refuse to give me that, then, eh, fuck it, I can always grab a worker or something to spite them in that case (although it may not be a good idea to pick a fight, honestly).


So that's the plan on the scouting front. I also detected more interesting news while crafting the score report:






The Romans have contacted Japper and Cornflakes! Either Sullla finally sent a scout over the landbridge after my arrival, or there's a Relic scout on my heels somewhere. I hope it's the latter - that way Sullla and Singaboy might still assume Woden and I are closer than we are. If he's realized that Japper is his nearest neighbor, well, then our bluffed attack won't work. Might still kill my scout though!


Closer to home, the settler is 2 turn's march from Leyte's planned site, and Salamis finishes its settler next turn (with a much shorter walk to Aboukir Bay). Here's a look at my core:






Trafalgar is pre-building a warrior, to be Agoge-chopped into an RND once Celestial Navigation is in. Next turn I will likely switch to a builder for Salamis, while IT prebuilds an archer to be chopped into its own RND. I'll need at least one more builder on top of that to execute the chops I need for the Mausoleum, but that's still 20 turns of research away (so tentative ETA turn 80? Is that fast enough? We'll find out!). Actium is building a builder, then will get to work on a galley. Leyte is 3 turns from founding, Aboukir is 7 turns out. At Leyte, I need to purchase the crabs for ~50 gold, to finish CN, and at Trafalgar I need to buy the lake tile for ~70, but my income is picking up a bit so that should be manageable. Finally, the two slingers around Actium are going to park themselves on two plains tiles south of the marsh to block all north-south movement. The rest of my army is marching on Kabul, where it will join my navy and assault hte city around turn 70 or so.

My last two warriors push into Khmer’s continent, unveiling thick, tangled country of woods and jungle everywhere. Kongo’s UU is a nightmare in this terrain, and production is abundant, but is there fresh water? I guess not, otherwise Mike wouldn’t have bothered with that insane forward settle. Terrible country:




I’ll push these guys as far as I can until turn 70, then start marching home to arrive as the DOF expires and I can upgrade them to swordsmen.

Okay, so plan of economic development:

Salamis: Chop the forest hill through archer ->RND. Mine hill. Worker 2 removes quarry, then harvests quarry through walls into Mausoleum. Harvests Stone #2 through galley into Mausoleum. Might need one more worker for an additional chop? Need another tile to chop. Must build galley (wait for Maritime Industries though) and ancient walls to 1 turn before Defensive Tactics is in. I think I can manage all that in my timeline.

Trafalgar: Build worker for self and worker for Aboukir. Build watermill for Construction eureka. Chop out RND, mine hill. Dunno what to do with the final worker charge yet. After the workers and water mill are out, should be able to pump out traders to Muscat quest and other utility.

Actium: Next worker will want to pasture sheep for growth. Chop forest through galley for RND, mine hill. Need ot build worker, then galley. Then walls? Granary?

Leyte: Worker from Actium grabs whales and crabs, then plantations the tea. Initial production will be limited, but Woden can have the luxury and improves my SPT/GPT. Need to build unit to chop for RND, rebuild walls.  

Aboukir: First worker will mine iron, farm wheat for growth, plantation silks for culture/GPT. Send spare silks to Woden if he needs ‘em. Worker 2 can plantation tea, mine hill, and use the one available tile to chop an RND. Will need to build 1 unit to chop RND, need 1 more worker.

Kabul: Gonna need 1 worker to chop RND, then take a look at what the city needs. What the hell is an Afghan naval battle I can name Kabul after? I might name it after Navarino, or Sinope - a couple of battles against Turkey, which is KINDA near Afghanistan, won by Russia. I like Navarino.

Okay, that’s really vague compared to others’ plans (Woden, Singaboy, and oledavy had much more detailed plans in PBEM4), but gimme a break, guys, I’m still learning this stuff. Within 30 turns, I should have 6 cities with districts and basic improvements in place, the vulnerable ones with walls ready to go up, a galley to explore the final sea I border, and a wonder ready for me to try and imitate China with.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

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I like your thinking on the Mausoleum but think it might be better to save 1 charge on your next 3 builders and move them to Salamis. Pre-build a galley and walls down to a few cogs left then switch and put some turns into the Mausoleum until you think you can cover it with chops. Then with your 1-charge builders you can chop the stone into walls (complete), chop #2 stone into galley (complete), and forest chop to complete the wonder all on the same turn. Something in production will complete if it is chopped, so you can get it all done on the same turn. Doing it this way will prevent wasting a bunch a chops if you lose it 1 turn from completion. Basically you are saving your chops until you know you can beat China to it.
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The refinement of having 3 one-charge workers (doesn't even need to be one charge, really) I like - it minimizes the risk that I waste ~400 hammers. I'll go with that. 

So my civics plan is PP - Games & Rec - Defensive tactics. 110+175 clefs, which at current culture rates works out to 16+25 = 41 turns! Too long. I can research construction and drop that to 33 turns, still very slow. Building a campus grabs me the suzerainity of Nan Madol, which gives 6 culture between Salamis, Actium, and Leyte, plus another 2 per RND, call it four, for 8 more culture, taking me to 21 cpt. That lets me research defensive tactics in a mere 9 turns, and I think I get that envoy before I finish Games and Rec. 

Research-wise, I want to race for Construction to save that 55 culture, and don't need techs like ironworking or shipbuilding yet. So we grab the wheel (80 beakers, dropped to 40 when I mine the iron at Aboukir), then Horseback Riding (60, already boosted), and finally Construction (100), which works out to 24 turns, 20 if I boost iron working. It would take me 4 turns longer to delay Games and Rec to boost it this way, but in return I save 55 culture on the civic and instead invest it in drama and poetry or something. Is speed or efficiency more valuable in this case? And, of course, the times will drop as my population grows. I'll re-evaluate the situation once I reach the halfway mark on Games & Rec. 

So, after workers and its RND, Actium needs to build its campus - but I need it size 4, and it presently only has housing for 3. A pasture and plantation will get me there, but I'll still have the 50% growth penalty. If my pop is still too low when I finish the RND, then I might need to slot in a Lighthouse or Granary? That lifts the growth penalty and lets me grow to size 4. Hmmmm...

One potentially major issue I thought of - would building a harbor in Trafalgar make all my Great Admirals worthless? I played a naval-heavy game a few months ago and I don't remember being able to transfer my admirals from harbors. If I can't, that means my GAs will spawn in the one-tile lake at Trafalgar...and then be stuck there forever. I need to run some tests, otherwise building a harbor there could be a potentially fatal move to my naval game. It's idiotic, but you never know with these things.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

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I've been doing some research and it looks like yes, my GA will spawn on that dockyard, and no, I won't be able to transfer him - harbors can only be DESTINATIONS for great admiral transfers, not ORIGINS. So that's idiotic but I'm going to have to cancel the RND at Trafalgar. Might make Salamis the new production city, my dotmap already has 3 of the 4 production boosting buildings.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

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I know GP can move from city to city but since your harbor is not next to the city center that might cause some problems. We will have to look to see if you can manipulate where GP spawn. I vaguely remember reading something on the mechanics of where they spawn. I will see if I can find it again.

It might be faster to have me get you the boost for G&R. I will have to look at it and see when exactly I can but I should be able to get the Suzerain of Valletta in something like 15 turns and my next city will be on a river so I can faith buy a watermill. I should be able to give you the boost in under 20 turns. This way you could go for Shipbuilding and if you run into a road block at Team Empire, you could sail around it.
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I should be able to have G & R done in 15 or 16 turns, so roughly T73 or T74. Would that help?
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That would help - that's as long as it'd take me to research normally, so I can research up to the inspiration, then swap and sink some culture into drama and poetry. That frees me from having to research towards Construction and yeah, I can get Shipbuilding ready to go.

As for Great People, CivFanatics says that Admirals spawn in your highest-pop city with a Harbor. Salamis is larger than Trafalgar at the moment, but I would have to keep it that way forever. I think it's safer just to use the district slot in Trafalgar for something else - a campus in the middle of all that jungle would do okay.

One more thought I had - with all these lakes around, if we could land Huey Teocalli on the big lake by Malta, or at Thoth, you'd have some very nice cities. Let's see if my scout can uncover any Chinese lakes, but we may have a shot at this one.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
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The Huey Teocalli is a fantastic idea and we have a good chance of getting it. It unlocks at a dead end tech which most people skip and China can't use its builders to build it. It is a ways down the tech tree and I would have to build a spearman and research a unless tech but it would help and probably make Thoth a very happy and powerful city.

Keep spit out the ideas, you are on a roll!
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Nubia-Turn 58
Start off in the southeast...




Russia plants his third city on the southern side of the lake. This is good, since it will not block me planting the eastern canal city and will allow for ships to enter the lakes are for add protection. Which got me thinking that having a few frigates in this lake when the industrial era starts and Cossacks enter the game might help defend the area. They won't really be much threat to the ships and they could help bombard them if we can see them. The German warrior makes me a little suspicious if this was a Germany plant and they traded cities to get the borders boosted. Then again, it probably is possible that he got out 3 settlers, IDK. I guess we will see next turn if it is a Germany city. 

On the battlefield...




Kandy moves the archer out again to attack! This is awesome. I start by moving the southern most archer to the jungle and attack...




Not quite enough to kill it but the archer behind the mountain takes a shot and kills it.




One more turn of movement and then I will be able to push on the city and take it in 2 or 3 turns. I move my remaining units towards Kandy to set up a minor attack on the city next turn and a major attack in 2. I will be able to hit the city with 2 archers and 1 warrior next turn and 3 archers and 2 warrior the following. I am expecting another archer to show up next turn but still should be good. I do have 1 farm my northern warrior can pillage to heal. Might lose the southern warrior but that should be about it. Should be able to take the city in 3 turns (T61) with any luck.  

In other news, I did switch off of the wheel to iron working. A trader finished at Amon and started a builder. Sent the trader to Isis and will start a route to the city state next turn and switch back to PP. I checked the Great People screen and no one has built anymore districts, guess everybody is focusing on expansion right now. We should start seeing districts drop soon as the new cities start to develop. Anyways, that was about it. Exciting turns are definitely coming as our develop curve starts to pick up speed.
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If Emperor/Archduke try Russian-city-gifting cheese, we should counter with spamming free units every turn out of Thoth. Flipping the city back and forth will give us a warrior (or a swordsman, if I finish iron working) every turn, unless city-gifting doesn't net me a melee unit.

Report up later, but we met China, and his borders do go all the way to Rome's. I'll look for a passage in the north, but I can see tundra up there.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

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