Unicorn lairs

[Seravy]

It was fairly simple, I just hope it won't break something I don't know about. (is hard to test, too...I guess I can try magic vortexing my own city while defending to lose buildings.)

[muxecoid]

How did we get from discussing unicorn lairs to buildings with destroyed prerequisite?
I guess city combat against rival AI is fine like it is now.

[Suriname]

So, "do nothing" option chosen? Fantastic. CoM will forever be known as that game where you run away from cities to defend them. Great!

Well at least you got the initials right: CHEATER of magic it is.

I guess city combat against rival AI is fine like it is now.

It's a abusable and therefore abused AI weakness, check the videos around, but we're mainly talking city combat against the human. It's similar to unicorns in that the human abuses this (to keep a city with a horse running away) more than the AI with unicorns (to keep their treasure).

Only flyers at turn 25 - non committal just in the sense of being still there doing nothing.

That's the problem - define "doing nothing". The attacker's units that try to conquer the city are also doing nothing and might be flying. Doesn't matter though, we are not doing this one anyway.

Again: flying units don't count. It's super simple. Ignore non committal, that was for fluff.
At turn 25*, On each turn, any non flying, non invisible unit inside the city adds 1 to a counter. At the end, the side with the highest counter if turn 25* is reached without combat ending keeps the city - if it is the attacker then the normal capture procedure is taken and the defender

• is forced to retreat as if it clicked flee
  
• is allowed to retreat as if it was the attacker and the limit was reached
  

Already answered non issues:
- A combat that has gone all the way to turn 25 has given more than enough time to each army to deliver damage, even the dragon turtles example doesn't even take 10 turns.
- defenders leaving: doesn't happen because of the turn 10 rule
- entering at the last moment: doesn't happen because of the AI protecting the gate. Counting each turn fixes this perfectly, also for un-walled cities. Also:
*Another option that might be better: if there are still land units of both sides inside the city at that point, continue the combat for 1 turn longer and repeat. The idea of the 25 turns vs 50 is to avoid clicking done, not to avoid combat, if I recall it right. Anyway, with the continuous count rather than turn 25 count this is unnecessary.

So you are fine with Magic Vortex destroying up to 100% as well? Losing up to 100% when you conquer the city but have to step on the tiles for a prolonged amount of time because the units just take that long to fight? (think 5 dragon turtles vs 5 other dragon turtles)

No I'm not fine with it, but I'm even less fine with everybody and their retarded little brother abusing this stupid trick to beat a game that is supposed to be difficult. So let's do capturing instead, that's better for me.

Abusing this to destroy 100% in the enemy city by moving your flying units into some empty city tiles?

Less abuse than what happens now, it just increases the amount of damage done raping and pillaging, pretty ok with that. Again: I prefer capturing anyway.

This would affect a lot more than just hiding in corners, while the effects on that seem marginal. I'm not convinced this is worth taking that risk.

Let's try and see.

Meanwhile I confirmed the outpost destruction bug is real.

Happy to help.

somehow check for it and trigger a banishment (how?there is no wizard who's attacking! )

Best option. How: there's always an action that triggered it, and therefore a causing wizard, unless it's neutrals or random events - but neutrals can banish too in normal conditions right? It should work.

[Seravy]

Okay, so if I web the enemy Sky Drakes so they can't come back to the city on turn 10 (10 turns are enough to web all 9 and then web the one standing in front of the gate every turn after that), I get to beat the enemy capital with just a few cavalry?
By the way if my units aren't faster than the sky drakes, they won't trigger the turn 10 rule. While that would mean they get eaten, that's a non-issue as long as I can replace them by summoning new ones and making sure the drakes can only catch one a turn (that's easy, just summon a new one far enough from them).
Face it, no matter how it's done, it'll always have a lot more abuse potential than the current system because any abuse will result in conquering a city you weren't supposed to, instead of defending a city you weren't supposed to.

How: there's always an action that triggered it, and therefore a causing wizard,

Yes but it's not passed as a parameter to the building destruction procedure, so it's unknown information. We only know the target city and the percentage chance to destroy.

(also what if the wizard causing it is himself? "Tlaloc banishes Tlaloc" yay... (I know, people usually don't destroy their own capital but not everyone knows raise volcano does destroy outposts...and it can convert tundras.)

[Suriname]

Okay, so if I web the enemy Sky Drakes so they can't come back to the city on turn 10 (10 turns are enough to web all 9 and then web the one standing in front of the gate every turn after that), I get to beat the enemy capital with just a few cavalry?
By the way if my units aren't faster than the sky drakes, they won't trigger the turn 10 rule. While that would mean they get eaten, that's a non-issue as long as I can replace them by summoning new ones and making sure the drakes can only catch one a turn (that's easy, just summon a new one far enough from them).
Face it, no matter how it's done, it'll always have a lot more abuse potential than the current system because any abuse will result in conquering a city you weren't supposed to, instead of defending a city you weren't supposed to.

First, you are claiming that getting the enemy capital with these tricks is bad while keeping your own capital with the very same same stupid trick is perfectly kudos. How don't you see the ridiculousness of your position?

So no: I face what you say and I conclude that the current situation has far more abuse potential. Wait, worse: it doesn't have only potential, it has actual abuse, as it can be seen on several videos. Cheap Cheater of Magic!

Besides, your scenario is far fetched enough (needs at least 110 skill, plus all the summoning for the 15 remaining turns) not to be considered a big deal when confronted with a trick that can be done on turn 5 - a cavalry or a sprite, at the beginning of the game. And it doesn't even work:
- if you have enough skill to do that, the enemy probably has too and the cavalry will die.
- you can't summon stuff in the city, it's not on your side
- if you summon outside of the cities, the drakes after turn 10 don't go there
- if you bring them inside the cities they die

So... Next? How far fetched a scenario do I need to prove the impossibility of, when the current situation only requires a cavalry or a sprite?

[Seravy]

Ok, whatever. If you hate this feature, don't play the game - it's part of it. It's not perfect but it's still fairly good at making players feel good about outsmarting the enemy and defending their cities, in other words it makes the game more fun to play. Maybe not for everyone but there is no game everyone equally likes.
I'm adding this to the rejected suggestions list.

(also we're strayed really far from the original discussion so I'm closing the thread. This is now about everything except neutrals hiding in corners.)