Japper goes Native

[Japper007]

Welcome to another thread. Do I get to be called a "veteran" now? 

[Japper007]

Civ's are in, another thank you to Cornflakes for helping us with map and rolling civs even though he is also busy with PB38!

And what a nice roll they are (though everyone has at least something strong judging from the other rolls, almost impossible not to with 6 per person):

Cree, Mapuche, Persia, Russia, France, Brazil

My leaning is towards either of the new native civs, but let's some them all up for completeness (and because I have nothing else to do before my new computer is there on Saturday)

Cree:  http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Cree_(Civ6) , the extra trader at Pottery has to be taken into consideration along with the fact that Harbor/Commercial Hubs have been nerfed into near uselessness with requiring a Market or Lighthouse to unlock (dumbest change in the whole rebalance IMHO, they just made the already weakest Districts effectively useless! ), so the Cree have 2 traders while everyone is still stuck with 1 for a long time. Claiming tiles is also neat.

The true power of the Cree lies in the Mekewap Improvement though, a +1 production/1 housing/possiblity for even more absurd yields improvement that unlocks with Pottery ( ), hell yes

The Alliance ability may come into play as well, I need to look for someone with a builder civ that'll look for a friend in what is likely a game that'll have the full scary/10 compliment of Mongols, Zulu and  Skythia.

The  scout replacement is neat too. finally one that is worth building!

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Mapuche_(Civ6)

[Japper007]

Sorry for cutting of like that...

Anyway the Mapuche...

The loyalty is not really more than flavor, a city with governor already generates +9 loyalty/turn. Meaning you'd have to kill a unit per turn to even beat the per turn recovery and you have to do this every turn for 10 consecutive turns. I also don't think anyone will be stupid enough to forward settle in loyalty pressured territory in MP. It also seems really counterproductive to me to flip cities into free cities. They get free units, why would I even want to turn my intended conquests into what is essentially a City State? Isn't it better to just capture it outright?

+10 CS in Golden Age is neat, but also entirely predictable. Unit is cool but does end up shoe-horning you even more into one particular strat. (Cavalry rush against whoever is in GA when they hit)

Improvement is neat basically a spammable beachside resort that also gives tons of culture.  

I feel the Cree more here than the Mapuche tbh but lets see how they stack up to the Vanilla civs:

Persia: they aren't nearly as good in MP as they are in SP, since the surprise war bonus can be completely negated by other players warring you on sight. Inviting war declarations from all other players is also really bad from a meta perspective. I'll just cite Alhambram's pbem6 thread as evidence here. He is a decent player, his civ sucked though.

Russia: everyone knows the power of Russia by now, I think the Cree have them beat though, a similar ability to grab tiles and a better production boost (Mekewaps do not require settling marginal ice-balls)

France ha no, next!

Brazil: Decent economic boosts but the UU doesn't come in before the game is practically over it also wasn't even impactful when it did arrive for Woden in pbem4, even though that map was almost tailormade for it to shine.

[Japper007]

Yeah I'm going with 

Poundmaker of the Cree

[Japper007]

So I tested R&F and Cree in particular tonight with a few games:

Cree:

Mekewaps are badass, pretty much an Outback Station that unlocks at Pottery. Not as spammable but it is really good for filling in those flatland tiles you can't find any other use for.

I was pleasantly surprised by the Okihtcitaw. Because they move at scout speed they can easily chase down Barb scouts and clobber them. The extra speed also makes them good at flanking melee units and sniping archers. The upgrade push at Rifling didn't seem viable sadly, it is just too far away, you need a unit to fill in the medieval gap.

Rise and Fall:

Magnus (the governor) is ridiculous, the +100% chops in his city as a starter is already enough to make him worthwile, The food for trade to his city bonus is strong and Vertical Integration is really strong as well. Second favorite governor so far is Reyna, early stuff is meh, but the district purchasing with gold is just brokenly strong.

Districts: The Harbor and Commercial hub just seem utterly useless now that you no longer get the Trade Route up front, as the Cree I was swimming in Mekewap gold anyway, so I didn't see the need for them for just gold income. Instead I focused on Theatres after Campuses and they seemed really strong, surprisingly. Does anyone have confirmation on gen-stacking getting removed? If so I'd strike Encampments of the list too.

Loyalty is... weird, I saw cities constantly flipping between the AI's but I never had any issue apart from just after conquest (yeah city flipping after conquest is back in full ugliness, I ended up razing most cities in my playthrough, which doesn't seem to be the intension behind the design at all)

Zulu are beastly, even the AI was steamrolling very hard with them.

[Japper007]

Game about to start, let's go through civ picks and players

1. TheArchduke - Mongols

Scary/10 both player and civ

2. Rowain - Sumeria

Rowain was (is still? that game never gets updates does it? ) a solid competitor in pbem3. He has what has since vanilla been a scary good civ. Sumeria is more than just the Warcart rush, it also has one of the best unique improvements in the game (a spammable +2 science everywhere, that also gets a culture point on rivers) and gets goody hut rewards from killing barb camps (which include builders and population!)

3. Japper - Cree

Well I'll freely admit that I'm not a very good player, I'm good at theorycrafting but my execution is often flawed. I give myself points for persistance though! Cree is epic as I detailed further up the thread, early game food and production really seems to be what win you Multiplayer games, and Cree get both in spades. I want to try to swing as many alliances as i can this game and builder my way to a production edge.

4. Alhambram - Netherlands

Alhambram rolled a good builder civ, but buildering really doesn't seem to be his forté from past performance. He is scary good at war though, I'm happy he didn't get Zulu or something equally terrifying. Alhambram is a poor starter so I really don't think a builder civ serves him well at all.

5. Chevalier Mal Fet - Korea

Scary good civ, but I do not have Chev pegged as a very strong player yet, in pbem7 he

showed up for a rush with Slingers , Woden had to carry pretty hard there

6. Emperor K - Georgia

Emperor K why did you reject Aus for this civ? Unless I'm missing something this civ just seems really weak? Does he just have a thing for picking weak religious civs (like Poland in pbem6)? I can't say much about the player here, he was a non-entity in pbem6 due to getting shut down early by Alhambram taking Rose (which did betray a lack of understanding on the strategy level, that city was exposed as all hell) and his performance in pbem7 I know nothing about since I obviously am not allowed to go through his thread.

[Japper007]

Turn 1:



Holy moly this start  , 2 4 yield tiles in first ring, all the rest 3 yield ones and that is unimproved!



I went builder first, with mining tech I can get an extra two food, 1 housing, 1 amenity and 1 production (2 farms, 1 mine on Gems) in my capital (btw any good naming schemes to fit this civ? cause those Cree names are going to be just awful to keep track of...)

[Japper007]

Any dedlurks that want to join up? I promise I'll only ignore your advice most of the time

[Japper007]

Turn 3, had nothing to do except move my warrior, so I did some Urban Planning:



I put in the optimal places for Mekewaps as I saw them, remember that you can't build them adjacent. Just look at the one to the North! It will be +1 food, +2 production (plains hill), +1 housing, +1production (base Mekewap yield), +1 food (2 adjacent bonus resources), +2 gold (two luxuries) for a total of 2/3/2 and 1 housing.

The industrial Zone will have 3 adjacency and buff the Commercial Hub Campus will get +2 adjacency as well. The theatre sqaure is a bit of a dream for now, as it would require 10 pop, but I am planning on going a bit "taller" in this game than I have in the past, as the extra housing and food from mekewaps adds up to a lot of population.

[Japper007]

Hmm looking at this again I can see that the "+1 gold" Mekewap could be replaced with a +1 food one one tile Northeast. I'm also thinking I might do a really unorthodox opening here and go double Builder. Second Builder can go: Mine Mercury for one extra production and 1 amenity, camp the deer for +1 gold, +0.5 housing and then finish by putting the Mekewap on the plains hill after the initial worker goes Farm Rice, Farm Wheat and then Mine Diamonds. I haven't yet spotted a site where a Settler would get me more yields than these initial yields, also no neighbours so no idea yet which way we need to forward plant.