I might not have time to play on Monday evening. If someone else wants to get us started instead, that's ok; if no one posts a GOT IT until Monday evening, I'll play on Tuesday.
I did look around on the map a bit and would like to share some thoughts.
We are close to the center of the map, which means that we have lots of room to expand, but also that we don't have much of a backline. Looking at the location of yellow stars, the area south of us is pretty far away from the AIs, though. We need to expand quickly, but the AIs, especially the Mrrshans and Sakkras probably won't let us run a farmer's gambit. Speaking of yellow stars, the ones around Altair clearly are no starting locations. The closest one after that is 6 parsecs away, so there still can't be an AI there (IIRC). Every other yellow star is a potential starting location. With so many yellow stars around, we can expect some high-pop planets, but that's not a certainty of course. The blue and white stars a bit farther away are likely uninhabitable, but also more likely to be rich. We should guard those while waiting for the colonization techs, so they don't get infested with talking rocks. The green ones are completely random. There's a purple ("neutron") star up and to the right, which has the highest chance of having a rich planet.
My plans are to build lots of scouts. Sometimes it's good to limit yourself to 6 scouts to avoid paying maintenance. This isn't one of those times because we don't really have a safe backline. Maybe I send a scout to the yellow star 6 parsecs away on the first turn, to have a better chance of heading off the AI. I usually focus on Planetology techs at the start, but on this map it seems like a good idea to improve our range first. But we can wait for the scout reports before deciding.
Good to see this getting off the ground! I don't plan to play the first set, partly for the same reason shallow_thought asked Ianus not to start things off for team A, so our tentative line-up will be:
[EDIT: Roster updated per haphazard's post below] RFS-81 - UP to get us started on Tuesday!
haphazard - on deck!
RefSteel - waiting in the wings
(Coeurva - skip until mid-March)
I like RFS-81's analysis, although the south looks like it should be safely in our back field at least for the time being, so we might be able to save some scouts that way. (Without neglecting to scout them of course - but we shouldn't need to keep ships there blockading early on.) And the thing about Planetology is that it's always good. It can sometimes be helpful to open Propulsion early, and this map may be such a case, but the question isn't whether to invest in early Plan or early Prop - it's how early to start each in lieu of more early factories. And in that light, a small (and continuing unless your only option is Controlled Barren with no good Barren worlds) early investment in Planetology pays for itself very quickly - often by the time the first self-built colony ship is complete.
I think that getting started will have to wait for RFS-81 on Tuesday; today is looking rather busy for me. Had to cut my turnset short in the EitB SG, just did not have enough time. (Check out our game in the succession game sub-forums, if FFH/EitB interests you. We are doing a High-to-Low game. [/shameless plug])
Here with MoO, some early planetology is usually good. Being the Alkari some erly propulsion could also pay off for us, depending on just what we need for range. I tend to favor early factories for the homeworld, but am always open to learning from better players. (Which is pretty much everyone on the team!)
As expected, we have a whole bunch of Terran planets in the neighbourhood, and a couple of extremely hostile ones, a few in between. In terms of minerals, our start is thoroughly average with only a single poor one. Now on to the detailed report! I'll explain some things that most already know, because it might be helpful for Coeurva.
First, let me just copy RefSteel's introduction to set the scene.
Not only for years or decades, centuries or millenia, no matter in what numbers, but since long before the word "year" could have meaning for the people of Altair, a titanic black hole had bulged dark and silent, pulsing with Hawking Radiation, at the heart of the galaxy: Not only since before the centuries-long Alkari Succession Wars were finally brought to an end by the Treaty of Threep that established the 32nd Oligarchy of Serial Governors to share power over their world, but long before any sentient life existed on the planet at all, or indeed any life at all. The enormous black hole whose mass held the galaxy together had lurked in - or as - the galactic core, not far from Altair itself in comparison with the width of the galaxy, since before the Alkari homeworld accreted from the stellar nebula around Altair, and indeed since before that golden star itself was born in an ancient nova. In comparison with the supermassive black hole around which the entire galaxy spun, the Ancients themselves - the legendary explorers and scientists of the fabled Orion star system - were no more ancient than a new-hatched chick. But in the year 2300 of the New Orion Era - hurried more than perhaps was wise so as to coincide with the centennial celebrations - the greatest scientists of the Ancients made ready to harvest the mass and power of the black hole itself, to shape time and space around it according to their will.
The Alkari knew little of the Ancients and their technology: Four-armed and wide-browed, with glowing eyes, those who had visited Altair were regarded with fear and awe. The Ancients spoke of other races they had visited as well, across the distant reaches of the galaxy - sleek and agile Mrrshan warriors inclined to swift and sudden violence, scaly Sakkra breeders who swarmed across the planet Sssla V, Silicoid rock people capable of living on any planetary body that even the Ancients might dream could ever support any form of life, massive and brutish Bulrathi known for tearing vehicles apart in their moments of wrath, and buglike Klackon drones working endlessly and tirelessly in service to their queen - and with whom, like the Alkari, they were sharing the simplest fruits of their ancient wisdom and potent technology. They trained each of these "lesser species" in the use and construction of the most basic interstellar technology, preparing a colony ship and escorts for each race, with the basic infrastructure needed to build more in case further volunteers appeared, to take all the sentients of the galaxy with them into a future the Ancients would create by bending spacetime around the black hole and taking control of future, past, and present, and the galaxy itself through the power of new, experimental technology that would harness the immense black hole itself. The groundwork was laid, and the date approached, and the network of energy transformers spanning eight major star systems was primed; the basic framework of the High Council that the Ancients envisioned as their audience chamber as the unquestioned rulers of the galaxy was in place, along with the automated Guardian mothership that would swiftly punish any who dared approach their fabled home and the Galactic News Network that would keep one and all apprised of the Ancients' decisions and discoveries. All was in readiness - or as ready as it could be made by the centennial celebration at least - and the Ancients communed together, merging their minds and identities almost into a single entity. They activated their galactic black hole energy transformation net.
There came a burst of light, blinding in its intensity across the entire sky, fierce and sustained. The whole world - the whole universe - seemed to twist and recoil upon itself, turning itself inside-out and back again. Some among the Alkari no doubt expected a roar like a tornado, the howl of hurricane winds, or a crack like thunder, but if there was any sound at all observed and not imagined, it was as though the sky were somehow screaming.
When it subsided, no one knew for sure if it had lasted minutes or hours or days: Time and space were fractured, seeming to twist around the galactic core, and no one understood exactly how or where or when. They might have asked their Ancient guests, but the Ancients all were gone - vanished almost as if they had never been - apparently taking with them more than half of the Alkari population. Their technology was left behind - the primitive equipment they had offered the Alkari seemed to have survived, at least - but of the four-armed Ancients and their merged or merging collective consciousness, no sign was found at all. And in the night sky, in the direction of what had been the galactic center, everything had changed: As far as could be seen, the supermassive black hole, like the Ancients who had sought to harness it, was gone - vanished from the galaxy, leaving only an empty void.
The Alkari were quick to recover, and quick to see their opportunity - and the new danger they faced. There was no telling what had happened to the other races around them, or what they might be doing if they too had access to Ancient technology without the guiding hands of the Ancients themselves. Those of the Alkari who remained upon their world hurried to get their three Ancient starships working, and to operate the manufacturing centers the Ancients had left behind. Though lost, their missing people had not been killed by any normal means: They left no bodies, nor even so much as ashes or dust. Somewhere, they might be out there, cast through time and space when the universe twisted upon itself, and the friends and families of the missing knew the only hope of recovering them was to rediscover the secrets of the Ancients among the stars.
Little did they know, nearly all the Alkari who to them seemed to be missing, still at Altair - or at another Altair, identical in every respect - were likewise seeking to find them: Together though separately, both at once set out to reunite the Alkari and to restore what had been lost of the galaxy.
And my own addition:
The Alkari governor decreed that the ships of the Ancients must be used immediately to secure a second planet, so that further catastrophes cannot endanger the existence of their species. But this could only be a first step. After the events of 2300, anything seemed possible! The Alkaris have to spread ever farther, to be safe from cosmic catastrophes...and aliens without the guidance of the Ancients. While engineers hurried to get the scout ships spaceworthy, and astronomers studied the star charts, a call went out to the best pilots of the planet. None dared to go any closer to the void that was left behind, but that was just as well: With its smaller fuel cells, the colony ship could not have followed in that direction anyway. After a short deliberation, the governor decided that the colony ship itself would not take part in the scouting effort because it was to valuable to risk in the unknown.
2300:
I sent the two scouts to the yellow stars left and right. The colony ship is left behind so I can send it quickly to whichever star has the better planet and so that it won't be eaten by the Guardian. I drop a single BC into Planetology to see what we have: Barren Colony Base and Improved Eco Restoration (I think ER3 is the preferred acronym?). That's great because ER3 is the best tech to speed up your early growth. It lets you clean up one unit of pollution for 3 BC instead of the usual 2, so that you can dial down the eco slider on your colonies and have more money for other things. But it doesn't stop there: It gives a boost to your Planetology tech level which increases the BC that your population produces, with or without factories. It also miniaturizes colony bases, which makes our colony ships cheaper! For now though, we're better off building more factories.
2303:
After two uneventful turns, the scouts arrive, revealing a desert planet and a 100-pop terran planet - no points for guessing where I sent the colship
I send the scouts on to the yellow star at 6 parsec distance and to the purple star, and set the homeworld to build 4 more scouts.
The ansible messages from the scouts were broadcasted all over Altair. Pictures of the third planet at Rigel were greeted with cheers. A green world, rivaling the homeworld itself. If the scout at Volantis had been in contact with the other one, he might have been embarrassed. He found a planet in the habitable zone, but with scarcely any water. The scouts received new orders: One would go to a far away yellow star, which according to scholars of the Ancients was close to the homeworld of another species. The other one would go to a neutron star, a bright purple dot in the night sky. Astronomer's estimated a high probability that this star system would contain mineral wealth beyond measure.
2304:
I send out my new scouts: One guards Volantis, one goes to the yellow star to the north and two explore the southern area. After looking at it again, I agree with RefSteel that we can consider this our backline for now. The AIs will need a serious investment in fuel cell tech to slip in unnoticed.
After the founding of the new colony, half the population of Altair is brought to the new world, only a few short years after half of the population vanished in the events of 2300. Ghost towns litter the surface of the planet, except for the areas around the Ancients' factories - and the Alkaris' newly built imitations.
2306:
The first colony is founded. I move 28 of 56 pop to the new colony. Even though a colony grows fastest when it's half full, having two colonies at 30% gives a higher growth in total. There's still enough population at Altair so that population growth keeps pace with industry.
"We found ... enormous deposits of neutronium ..." the Lieutenant swallowed. Of course the head of the Altair Astronomical Survey Corps would pick a low-ranking officer like her to bear the bad news. "... all over the asteroid belt. But the asteroid belt is ... all there is. If we were to send ships to carry it back, we would be spending more on fuel than we gain."
2307:
Nothing at the purple star, I send the scout on to a blue star that came into range after founding the colony.
2308:
The scout arrives at the yellow star 6 parsecs away. After chasing away an unarmed Bulrathi scout, it reveals a crummy barren planet. There's always a chance that a star goes against type. I'll keep the scout parked there, so maybe the Bulrathis will waste some time trying to scout it again. At another yellow star, we have more luck:
2309:
The population arrives at Rigel. I put one turn of spending of both colonies into ER3, then trickle research from the new colony. Altair spends all its income on factories. By concentrating industry there, we'll be able to build colony ships faster. In case you don't know the seed-and-trickle research trick, it's explained in this thread.
2310:
Some disappointing scouting results.
2312:
Scouts find an unreasonably large radiated planet. That's bigger than many non-hostile planets! If we can get Radiated Colony Base and Atmospheric Terraforming, this one's going to be great!
2314:
Scouting Dunatis reveals a fertile planet. That's cool, but it's location is kind of unfortunate. It would be nice to grab it early to seed our future colonies, but we want to push into another direction first to claim more territory. The surrounding planets in the backline are rather small, though there are a lot of them. Still, it might come in handy to regrow population after invasions.
2315:
More scouting. What a crummy planet!
2318:
Phyco scouted.
2320:
My turnset is over. Altair has enough factories to build a colship in 7 turns. Maybe it's about time for our next colony? There's lots of large planets to seed, so we probably don't want to wait until Altair has maxed its factories. The bulb for ER3 is over half full by now. Here's an overview of the map.
Roster
RFS-81 (just played) haphazard1 (up next)
RefSteel (on deck)
Coeurva (on hold till mid-March)
Great start, and I loved the story elements! Thanks for getting us started!
I haven't looked at the save yet, but it looks to me like we're already doing great! If we find a way to claim (and hold!) Denubius while still picking up Dunatis in a timely fashion, we'll be well on our way to victory. I also like RFS-81's initial thoughts about improving our range quickly: We birds are excellent propulsion engineers, and it's going to take a long time for us to make use of our hostile back-line worlds with planetology - even if the Silicoids don't come around to poach them!
I had a look at the save, and we're indeed off to a really strong start. Detailed thoughts follow, spoilered for length, for general discussion purposes, but I'm mainly looking forward to seeing what Haphazard does with the set!
Early range will be critical here just as RFS-81 said in his initial thoughts: The Volantis desert is the only world within our current range and, and in comparison with Denubius and Dunatis, that star doesn't look like it's a high priority. Range 4 should meet all our immediate needs, and it'll finish so quickly for Alkari on Hard difficulty that I'd probably suggest researching it first (and probably right away!) even if we later find ourselves needing to pick up Range 5 too - the idea being to do everything we can to get the two terran dreamworlds as quickly as possible (within reason). Of course, there's no guarantee we even have both in our tree, and the key point is to get some kind of range tech quickly!
On colonizing priorities, if Denubius were just an Arid 60 or something, comparing its value to us with Dunatis would be pretty interesting, but as is - in spite of the fertility and consequent extra space of Dunatis - Denubius seems like the clear winner thanks to its strategic positioning toward (well, around) the center of the galaxy. Balancing economy against land claims is easier when there's a place like Denubius that lets you get both!
I'm curious what people think about our next choice in Planetology (after Improved Eco comes in). I can see arguments for IT+20, Controlled Tundra, Controlled Dead, or even going back for Controlled Barren if our tree lacks Range 4 in Propulsion and good second-tier options in Planetology - or if we find that Zhardan's strategic value is too great to risk many delays.
There's a lot for Haphazard to cover in the next fifteen turns, especially once our battle plans face contact with the enemy. A lot of questions still to be answered: Will we need fighters to hold Denubius? How many more factories can we afford to build on our homeworld before we start colony production, and can we get our tech timing to line up the way we want? (I'd be aiming to land Improved Eco and our first range tech before we finish our first colship if possible!) And apart from that one Bulrathi Scout we chased away from Zhardan, where is everybody? Apart from us, I mean.
The "where is everybody?" question is a good one. We have some excellent planets scouted; if we can manage to grab and hold just the key ones we have already found we should be in excellent shape.
OK, I have the save and should be able to play later today. I agree that we want to push for Denubius, as both a key location and an excellent planet. Some improved range tech should hopefully not take overly long as the Alkari.
Things are looking quite promising, so hopefully I do not screw everything up!
A question on seeding techs (here rather than in the thread RFS-81 linked, because it might be spoilerish for Team A if they saw it): Does a racial advantage (such as our Alkari being excellent in Propulsion) change your seeding strategy for techs? Amount invested, timing, otherwise?
(March 7th, 2018, 05:36)RefSteel Wrote: Early range will be critical here just as RFS-81 said in his initial thoughts: The Volantis desert is the only world within our current range and, and in comparison with Denubius and Dunatis, that star doesn't look like it's a high priority. Range 4 should meet all our immediate needs, and it'll finish so quickly for Alkari on Hard difficulty that I'd probably suggest researching it first (and probably right away!) even if we later find ourselves needing to pick up Range 5 too - the idea being to do everything we can to get the two terran dreamworlds as quickly as possible (within reason). Of course, there's no guarantee we even have both in our tree, and the key point is to get some kind of range tech quickly!
Would you have started researching Propulsion already? I thought that two techs at the same time won't work so well in the beginning, but I could have started ER3 earlier.
(March 7th, 2018, 05:36)RefSteel Wrote: I'm curious what people think about our next choice in Planetology (after Improved Eco comes in). I can see arguments for IT+20, Controlled Tundra, Controlled Dead, or even going back for Controlled Barren if our tree lacks Range 4 in Propulsion and good second-tier options in Planetology - or if we find that Zhardan's strategic value is too great to risk many delays.
I'm in favor of IT+20 if we have it. Let's wait for the higher colonization techs. If I eyeball it correctly, we'll need at least range 5 for Zhardan anyway, with a colony at the desert planet.
(March 7th, 2018, 08:46)haphazard1 Wrote: A question on seeding techs (here rather than in the thread RFS-81 linked, because it might be spoilerish for Team A if they saw it): Does a racial advantage (such as our Alkari being excellent in Propulsion) change your seeding strategy for techs? Amount invested, timing, otherwise?
I'm not really precise with the amounts I seed anyway (despite making a big list about the trade-offs ). I just tend to dump all that's available into it. Maybe I should try to come up with some heuristics like "seed until the lightbulb is at this-and-this level".
(March 7th, 2018, 08:46)haphazard1 Wrote: A question on seeding techs (here rather than in the thread RFS-81 linked, because it might be spoilerish for Team A if they saw it): Does a racial advantage (such as our Alkari being excellent in Propulsion) change your seeding strategy for techs? Amount invested, timing, otherwise?
Not directly, but it does allow you to delay longer or invest less in the initial seed while still finishing a key tech just in time for it to be useful (e.g. fuel cells here in time to send our colony to one of the amazing D worlds!) - in particular:
(March 7th, 2018, 10:45)RFS-81 Wrote: Would you have started researching Propulsion already? I thought that two techs at the same time won't work so well in the beginning, but I could have started ER3 earlier.
I think I'd have done it pretty much the same way you did! The only difference might be that if this were Imppossible I would probably have opened Propulsion with a token RP or two a few turns back just to see if Hydrogen (Range 4) is in our tree (and so we could get an early start on Deuterium if not). This being an SG on Hard with the birdies, we can get fuel cells lightning-fast (especially if Hydrogen is in our tree and the one we choose) so I'd probably have left it for the next player just as you did, if only to avoid forcing my tech choice on them.
More generally, researching two techs at once, even near the beginning, is rarely more than a very minor inefficiency; a more important question is when we actually neeed to techs we're pursuing, and I think you got the timing right for the tech costs and our priorities in this game.
Quote:I'm in favor of IT+20 if we have it. Let's wait for the higher colonization techs. If I eyeball it correctly, we'll need at least range 5 for Zhardan anyway, with a colony at the desert planet.
You're right: When I looked at the save, I checked the scout's transit time, and it's five parsecs from Zhardan to our desert neighbor - so Zhardan would probably be out fourth planet at the soonest. The question is how highly we value Zhardan's strategic position and whether our economy can afford to research multiple (or expensive) planetology techs before we'll want to claim it. On balance, I think I agree with you on this one, but I can see good reasoning for almost any next choice in Planetology.
Quote:I'm not really precise with the amounts I seed anyway (despite making a big list about the trade-offs :lol: ). I just tend to dump all that's available into it. Maybe I should try to come up with some heuristics like "seed until the lightbulb is at this-and-this level".
Your method - "dump whatever we can spare into the thng we want to seed" - is actually about the best heuristic I know! Sometimes a really important tech can receive multiple turns of seeding, but that still works more or less the same way - it just goes on a little longer! Something like "until the lightbulb is at two bars" doesn't work in a lot of situations, like an expensive tech on which your empire will soon be unable to afford to collect the full bonus as it increases, or a cheap tech (such as Hydrogen here if we have it and select it!) that won't be a major drain on our economy even if we research it without the bonus, but will be needed soon (sometimes even just to get the research out of the way before starting a more-expensive tech). In extreme cases where you need to go back for a low-tier tech with a high-tier economy, Thrawn has even advised just pushing it to 100% research probability on the very first turn! In those cases, anything less would be a false efficiency.
(Check out our game in the succession game sub-forums, if FFH/EitB interests you. We are doing a High-to-Low game. [/shameless plug])
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). I just tend to dump all that's available into it. Maybe I should try to come up with some heuristics like "seed until the lightbulb is at this-and-this level".