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[NO PLAYERS] PBEM 7 Map Making & Lurkers

Well it looks like that Japper/Cornflakes will DOW CMF/Woden then get DOWed on the next turn. Their units will be out of position too due to Nan Modal and CMF/Woden will have units protecting it too. Japper/Cornflake's will collapse which will screwover Archduke/EMP-K just as oledavy predicted. popcorn
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I'm really surprised at how oblivious Japper apparently is to the pain train coming his way from Sullla. I mean, he's even playing Rome in PBEM5, I would think that would at least kinda clue him in to just how strong legions are.  At the very least he's about to really wish his swords were not off attacking Nan Madol  duh
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(February 26th, 2018, 23:08)oledavy Wrote: I'm really surprised at how oblivious Japper apparently is to the pain train coming his way from Sullla. I mean, he's even playing Rome in PBEM5, I would think that would at least kinda clue him in to just how strong legions are.  At the very least he's about to really wish his swords were not off attacking Nan Madol

This is of course CMF/Woden's question too, but Japper/Cornflakes have already answered it in their thread: They are intentionally ignoring the possibility that Sullla might attack them because CMF/Woden have telegraphed their intentions even more heavy-handedly, even further in advance, and in such a way as to encourage a revenge mindset. Japper/Cornflakes already know with certainty (and of course correctly) that CMF/Woden will attack them at the next convenient opportunity, and their assessment is that if Sullla also attacks, it doesn't matter what they do: They're going to be the meat in a pain sandwich, and will rapidly be eliminated.

This is actually the same (correct) calculus that Woden made when you complained about his failure to help you against [the "runaway" leader of the moment] in PBeM4: Thinking about the game from the perspective of a team with a shot at victory, you're failing to appreciate how the calculation differs for a team with nothing to lose.

If you can't [help to rein in the runaway] or [try to defend a second frontier] and still retain any hope of eventual victory, you have to cling to the chance, no matter how slim, that something will break your way: The second- and/or third-place team reining in the runaway without your help while you build up your civ (as actually happened in PBeM4, so quickly and thoroughly that Woden still couldn't catch up anyway, only partly because he wavered in his resolve) or your second powerful neighbor letting you fight your bitter enemy instead of claiming a share of your carcass for themselves (looks like Cornflakes/Japper won't be so lucky in this case, but it's still their only hope).

Realistically though, the distant-fourth-place team in question wasn't going to win the game in either of these cases. They probably each made the right decision to preserve any microscopic chance they had ... but they may also just be doing whatever they think is most fun at this point: Not a terrible response to a guaranteed loss.
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I don't understand why Sullla isn't guessing Nan Madol. You want to spam RND as England and RND and Commercial Districts still stack in this version and you would put it next to the coast/city center to make more $.
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Why isn't Japper responding to the threat of Rome? This is frustrating to watch, when you know both sides. But Crusade plus the Conversion should have clearly tipped Japper off.

Also looking forward to the Venetian Arsenal race. Wonder what completion time Sullla can come up with.
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Sullla said he can start on it turn 100, while CMF has a plan for a turn 112 finish. Without actually going through his cities I can't say what his plan is for sure but Sullla planning a priority wonder construction to take more than twelve turns sounds odd.

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(March 8th, 2018, 03:59)Ituralde Wrote: Why isn't Japper responding to the threat of Rome? This is frustrating to watch, when you know both sides. But Crusade plus the Conversion should have clearly tipped Japper off.

The just don't care. If Sullla DOWs there dead anyway and just giving them cities is not a real drawback because it hurts their bigger enemy of Woden+CMF.
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Salt incoming, Sullla's about to get 2+ cities completely free. 

Suffice it to say, this is one of the reasons I suggested the game should end on t40 after the cheating came to light. Sullla didn't really need the advantage of starting next to Japper007 to be competitive this game  lol

I will say though, I think the other teams are underrating the long-term potential of Archduke and Emperor K, with Hansas coming online and Cossacks on the horizon. The team format of this game accelerates the tech rate, meaning it will not be too too long before the latter appear.
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(March 8th, 2018, 12:23)oledavy Wrote: I will say though, I think the other teams are underrating the long-term potential of Archduke and Emperor K, with Hansas coming online and Cossacks on the horizon. The team format of this game accelerates the tech rate, meaning it will not be too too long before the latter appear.

It seems even Archduke and Emperor K are somewhat discounting themselves. True, they won’t be getting any spoils of the upcoming war, but they’re holding their own against a team of really strong starters and they have the late game strengths to catch up.
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Have similar feelings about Jasper although at this point I think there is an argument to be made that if you truly believe the only chance you have to win is by making certain assumptions then maybe you make those assumptions even if they’re likely wrong.

I think it does actually raise the question of what should players’ goals be once they don’t think they can win.

I’m also definitely looking forward to the VA race although my money is on Sulla


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