[Spoilers] Pindicator already misses slavery, and other out-of-context quotes

[pindicator]

Turns 140-143

We tore through some turns today and got about halfway through the plan I listed in the last update.  I misjudged the amount of beakers that were coming in - seriously, why can't they display the number instead of having to guess how far around a circle I am? - and so I came just about this short to Industrialization coming in on t143 when my 3rd workshop finished at Transylvania this turn.




So I miss out on about 20 hammers, empire wide.  I had been looking to go comfortably over the halfway margin, but thought I could fit in Banking and that the small amount needed to finish Banking would still leave enough left over from Industrialization.  And I had to eyeball how far around an arc on a circle came in order to decide if that was true or not.  The sad thing is I could have probably made it by rearranging some tiles if I had known the exact numbers.

In the end, not a huge difference.  It probably is better for me to have not wasted the beakers over the hammer production.  This also takes some hammers away from my plans at Jefferson.

But that was a smart thing I did early in the day: decide to rearrange tiles at Jefferson in order to be a lot more cautious towards getting that archaeological museum done




This now means we are 8.35 hammers short of finishing in 5 turns.  However, a trader finished up at Yazoo on this last turn, and so we moved him to Jefferson right away.  As long as he makes at least 2 hammers per turn on his route then we'll be fine.  And ideally I'll put him somewhere that gets 3 so I can move one of those awful plains tiles back somewhere else...  Although I'm tempted to send him to Valleta to take advantage of being Kumasi's suzerain.  In any case, we're pretty set on getting the museum done at the beginning of turn 148 now.  And Natural History is obviously past halfway on the civic, so we definitely will complete that civic on 148.  Considering my first draft of this plan had me finishing 150 both in build time and worker movement time, I'm pretty happy I was able to speed everything up by 2 turns.

Also in this screenshot you can see that we've chopped Texlahom and finished the Encampment there.  There was enough overflow to 1-turn a barracks, which also added a point of housing.  We'll be building a harbor here at size 4, but I won't be able to get it at discount.  Although I could build the industrial zone at Texlahoma itself...  By the way, the reason I haven't set the industrial zone on the marked tile yet is because I have 3 industrial zones planted and 22 districts total.  So if I wait a few more turns I'll be over the mark for the next discounted IZ.  I've been operating under the assumption that I'll build the IZ here and a harbor at Forgottonia.

Vandalia's trader will have finished its needed road by end of this turn.  The city itself will have a harbor completed out for it when its wall gets chopped out next turn.  That will be my 3rd harbor, with my other 2 at Popham and Acadia, and a 4th planned for Chippewa. ... I suppose I could chop a theatre here but I want to get trade routes going first.  And I don't have a good spot for a commercial hub here unless I want to lose a jungle chop, but I don't particularly want to lose that.  And long-term I dont' expect the commercial city-states to stick around on the board.  As in I plan on razing later in the game.




My chopping up north keeps on track, and I did get the right tile to come under my culture.  An entertainment complex was probably not the right district to build here - I should have put a commercial hub down instead like I did at Nataqua.  At least I do have 1 hub coming up in the coming turns.

Chippewa has planted the aqueduct to solve it's housing problems, and we'll chop into the harbor for a trade route here.  I'm not sure if I've discussed McDonald's chop but it is going into a university there for another 12 science.




Heading farther north, I'm a little surprised to see Alhambram's army still camped on my doorstep.  We're only 10 turns in to our declaration of friendship, and I expected at least a little re-distributing of his units.  I've moved some of my units south, partly to stay flexible, partly to see the reaction.  But now I will be certain to have troops back in place for when the friendship is done.

Also, Alhambram has to address Kumasi before he tries any kind of military maneuver here.  Assuming he thinks he even has enough military power to just plow through.  He does have an encampment at a very annoying position for me, and I don't have any good place to put an encampment in a defensive position.  Unless I just put one on the pass.  Actually, i don't know w hat district I put here next, so we might as well make it an encampment.




Little other odds and ends:  my 2nd catapult will be done soon, allowing me to tech past Metal Casting.  Absaroka will finish the market there at end of turn, and I'll finally start building the granary that I really should have started before the market - i'm trying to push for great people point advantages, but that was still a bad choice.  Acadia is trying to get some more housing with a lighthouse out of the harbor.  And then Transylvania is getting a Military Engineer out to put 2 forts down purely for the eureka value.  I likely will just put them wherever they won't be in the way, though I might try to plant one up at McDonald if I can get him there in time.  And yes, those catapults are probably going north.  But I'll want them south for whenever it is I eliminate Valleta.

Abroad, Krill grabbed Mercantilism and swapped into a ton of economic policies:  Rationalism, Serfdom, Triangular Trade, Meritocracy, & Trade Confederation.  His science level actually dropped as he's moved out of Natural Philosophy - a few turns ago he had pulled even with me but now he's down to around 115/turn.  Alhambram is still in the 90s.  And with culture I'm still putting out about 33% more than either him or Alhambram.

Lastly, CFCJester is not rolling over, but is laying claim to the northern half of his continent.




I'm just glad Alhambram isn't grabbing those spots.  I have faith that he'll keep Krill honest in that part of the world.

[pindicator]

Culture is fun and all ... but I'm staring at the tech tree and thinking about how Flight is only 9-10 turns away if I beeline it. Biplanes probably aren't the answer - although I am building a military engineer for airstrips if I want - but an observational balloon to go along with the 2 or more catapults-soon-to-be-bombards may just be the ticket. Even better: I can hit Rome with bombards stationed in my territory and gaining DotF bonuses.

[pindicator]

Turn 144

Hey look, we got better mines!




some of my cities had nice jumps in production.  Transylvania is up over 42 (oh how i wish I never placed that commercial hub; i'd be starting a factory for Ruhr right now), and Yazoo is over 30.  The capital is well above the amount needed to get the museum in time for my policy change thanks to coal's extra production.  In fact, I was able to move citizens off the plains tiles and back to better tiles for growth and gold.

For the coal report, we have 2 sources alreayd hooked up: mines at McDonald (right on the border) and Jefferson had coal pop up under them.  And in addition, Yazoo has a 3rd ring source that hopefully will be nabbed by culture in the near-term.  As for other countries ... Krill has 1 source not currently in his borders but in an awkward position between where he just settled and his capital.  Alhambram has 3 like myself, with 2 of those in Japper's ex-lands.  And CFCJester has 2, but both towards the north where it is sparsely settled, and neither in his current culture.  Basically Alhambram and I are the only 2 with a good coal situation right now.




Chopped into Vandalia's walls, overflow into a harbor.  There's another reason to pick harbor over commercial hub here, and that's more Great Admiral points.  The sea is going to be very important later in the game and it will certainly help to get an advantage in the great admiral race.

And that leads to something I've been thinking about all day.  Well really, ever since I made that post last night about being able to hit Rome's old capital with an observatory balloon-enhanced bombard units.  Let's go back to that screenshot from last turn:




Back when I was pondering how I was going to take out Japper, it always seemed to me that you had to operate from the sea in order to win the battle.  That isn't really any different now.  What is different is that before I thought I would have to commit to a full amphibious invasion at the capital in order to bypass defences at Rome.  Since I'm now sitting at McDonald (neé Macragge) and the battle lines are now at the mountains at Rome, that changes things in an important way.

Second thing I noticed:  look at Alhambram's troop layout.  Notice just how poor a choice of units those are for the task at hand.  True, this is his unique unit, and he is certainly taking advantage of the extra mileage it gets.  But this was an army built for quick conquest of Rome.  This isn't an army built for holding ground.  Because it's missing one key ingredient:  ranged units.  There is only 1 ranged unit in Alhambram's entire western force, and it is sitting in a position that is more vulnerable than he thinks.

So with all that in mind I dreamt this up today:




The idea is that a naval force will strike Coimbra and take or raze the city.  2-3 musket forces will then sit at the pass using frigate support to stop any reinforcements from coming into the fight - but just as importantly to also prevent any troops from escaping.  Without the coastal pass and without Kumasi's lands there will be no safe avenue for any reinforcements to approach from.

Simultaneously we attack from McDonald.  The battering ram along with a pair of muskets and crossbows/field cannons will be able to take out the embarkment on the first turn of the war.  2 muskets and a ranged, maybe 2.  Perhaps we use the artillery here before moving them up into position.

The big thing that makes this work is that bombards/artillery with an observatory balloon can hit Rome from the double line.  Bonus:  the double line is within my territory so they get +10 for DotF.  We set up a wall of muskets in front that doesn't engage, just protects the ranged, and how can Alhambram respond?  Any units moving up to engage will be cut down by my ranged forces.  If he sits back and waits then I take Rome's former capital - I could even bombard it to 1hp and take it with a scout.  But more importantly, we set up a kill zone to just fire upon his units and give them no out.

The second thing that makes this work is that Alhambram doesn't have many ports on the inland sea.  Coimbra is still being developed from it's prize from the previous Roman war.  The only other 2 ports he holds are Almeria and then way in the east there is Tortosa.  But if I can station a few more frigates and caravels to bombard Almeria and keep any ships from coming in from the narrow eastern straights then I control the entire sea and Alhambram can't reinforce.

So anyway, that's the dream.  What do we need to get there?

Tech:  Radio & Ballistics.  4 techs away.

Civics:  Exploration for +100% to renn era ships.  Optional: Nationalism for Corps.

Naval Units:  I can upgrade to 3 caravels and 2 frigates with what i have now.  Ideally I want to add 3-4 more frigates to that and maybe another caravel.  Actually, I should look at privateers because I'm going to need 3 privateers for a future eureka or inspiration anyway (i forget which).

Land Units:  I can probably get away with McDonald's push with the forces I have now.  That means 2-3 muskets for the coimbra naval strike force.  And of course I need an observational balloon.  And of course any Corps I add will increase the requirements.
Not many cavalry forces will be needed as the movement is not as big an asset here.  Our goal is to pin the troops and then fire ranged volleys on them.

Faith:  No planned spending.  Maybe a missionary to get DotF in Coimbra after I take it.  But ideally faith is kept for emergency unit or wall purchases.

Gold:  upgrades for 2 catapults (125g ea), 3 galleys (135g ea), 2 quadriremes (125g ea), 2-4 crossbows (115g ea).Grand total is: 1,365g, though we can probalby make it work with a little less and skip some crossbow upgrades.

I did decide to start making inroads on my gold issue.  I've had the worst income for most of the game, but I really haven't had a use for gold yet.  But Kumasi opens up an opportunity to really get some gold coming in:




We'll have another trader finishing from Texlahoma, and Yazoo will start a new trader right away once Vandalia's harbor finishes next turn.  Nataqua also has a commercial hub finishing very soon: I bet I can top 100gpt within half a dozen turns.

I'm not saying I'll go to war right away.  I still really want to get that wave of builders out, and my entire core is set to finish it's builds in 4 turns, when Civil Engineering will be done.

But after that...

[Old Harry]

I love a screenshot with arrows.

[SadGit]

[quote pid='667028' dateline='1521528068']


I'm not saying I'll go to war right away.  I still really want to get that wave of builders out, and my entire core is set to finish it's builds in 4 turns, when Civil Engineering will be done.

But after that...
[/quote]

So we should read this a Com. post with less poetry and more specific amount af "blood tomorrow" ?. Just asking before I get out my lurking apron.

[pindicator]

Heh, thought you guys would like that. I've been trying to think about the timing of this exactly, and the navy is really the big thing that is holding this plan back. I suppose if I had played with a bit more forethought I would have been in Maritime Industries and pumping out quadriremes from Forgottonia and Acadia - instead of say slow-building universities - and we'd be looking to upgrade them all. Instead I'm now trying to figure out when exactly I want to finish Exploration and just how many builders I can get away with and perhaps put some cities on ship or crossbow duty.

Idea for future games: try to push hard for culture on a water map and then aim for Exploration and Mercantilism to rush Privateers?

My Declaration of Friendship with Alhambram was started on turn 133, so at the earliest we can attack on turn 163 (or is it 164?). That's still 18 turns away, so I would circle that as a possible ETA. I suppose a possible timeline would go like this for core cities:

145 - 148: finish current infrastructure builds
149 - 153: build lots of builders with Public Works policy. Maybe start some privateers/frigates at Acadia & Forgottonia
154 - 163: Units everywhere in the core

I have plenty of time to get the technologies I want. Making 129 beakers now, and about to go up over 140 when I finish the university at McDonald in 2 turns. There's about:

Metal Casting (approx 170-180 left to go)
Scientific Theory (approx 150-160 left to go)
Flight (900)
Ballistics (420)

Making a grand total of 1,650 beakers, +/-20. That's 12 turns of research, so we can get the technologies needed easily and then some. Flight needs to come with enough time to build an Observation Balloon (240 hammers, so probably a 5 or 6 turn build at Transylvania). Ballistics just needs to happen in time for my last upgrade set with.

Civics are tricky. We only really need Exploration for this plan, and as we get closer to launch date we will want Nationalism as well to join units together for Corps. But not too soon, because Nationalism expires the policy Feudal Contract (+50% medieval & renaissance era melee/ranged/anti-cav units). I've currently set up Natural History to finish on t148 when the archaeological museum is done and Civil Engineering to finish on t149, which gets me into Public Works right away for the builder push, and then also gets me 1 turn of Professional Army for upgrades. Now, I do want to upgrade troops here for the Exploration inspiration and Siege Engineering eureka (though that last one is less pressing with this new plan). And I do probably want to wait on upgrading crossbows to bombards until near right before the launch. I haven't figured out how to fit all these moving pieces together yet.

One idea is to use Civil Engineering (t149) and Exploration (t150) to get my first set of upgrades in. We hold off on finishing the archaeology museum until we can use it with a 2nd set of policy changes. But I don't think I want to hold off building the museum for that long - we may be looking at holding it for something like 12-15 turns and that's a lot of great people points and culture points left to waste.

[pindicator]

Turn 145

Let's operate like we're going to war on turn 163 and see how the pieces fall into place for that timeline. After working in the professional world for long enough I've learned most of these timelines are set by someone saying that "we're going to have it ready by X date" just to make it sound impressive and then they rush and scramble madly to actually try to back up their words, even if they rush a shoddy product. Huh, this doesn't sound like such a great analogy now...

Hey look, tourists!




CFCJester and I both got the game's first foreign tourists on the same turn. I bet CFC got his from Krill just like I did, as they have been sharing open borders and an alliance for some time. His wonder generation is where he is getting foreign tourists from; mine are mostly coming from a pair of Great Writings. And both of us are a long, long way off from tourism making anything.

Don't think that I'm abandoning the idea of a culture win. It's more accurate to say that I've realized how far off a culture win is for me with the strategy I've employed. So rather than be passive and grind out a long win where we give our opponents lots of opportunities to catch up, we're going to continue to play actively and opt for a win by concession / having more stuff than everyone else. And if that doesn't work then culture will be the backup plan.




I thought this was neat. Crater Lake on the coast counts as a sea tile for movement purposes.

[Ichabod]

The problem with rushing privateers is that you can't upgrade anything into them, and slow building is hard, especially when rushing.

Also, naval attacks work well in zero-sum, but in a balanced mid-game free for all it probably means you cripple someone for not much gain.

[pindicator]

True. There's probably no cute military rushes to do with pushing culture. But I think my game has shown that pushing culture definitely has economic benefits, so probably good for it not to have both.

[Old Harry]

I thought this was neat.  Crater Lake on the coast counts as a sea tile for movement purposes.

Imagine this but with boats.


Also there were a couple of paragraphs apparently unfinished in your strategy post.