Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Turn report tomorrow, but I spent a long time staring at my civilization, trying to work out the best route forward. I think I came to a sort of plan, I'll share tomorrow. 

Nothing exciting, just feeling the stress. 

Oh, and Woden, Japper has a crossbow near Kinsasha. I'm falling back to my reverse slope defense - no sense pushing forward with swords and archers when I can push with knights and crossbows in about 10 turns. Research-wise, I can have knights on turn 111 and caravels by 115, or vice-versa. I favor earlier knights in case I can squeeze anotehr couple of galleys out before hitting caravels. That seems like it's mostly in time. 

Big worry is Sullla declaring war on ME in the next ten turns and using his much superior army to wipe mine out while Woden fights Cornflakes. I'm hoping he's content to set back, let us suck off the defenders, and then strike again on turn 111 (I think) to take Heart of Darkness.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

As for friendships, not sure when they expire. I need to go back and check.

[Woden]

Nubia-Turn 103

Kind of a quite turn today, maybe just the calm before the storm bloodbath? Thanks to CMF, start off with...

This completes a quest for Muscat, giving me my 3rd envoy and bringing my income to the positive.  Here is the front at the start of the turn...

I make my planned moves. His horseman disappeared, so I took a pot shot at his knight (didn't get the damage but not much...

I have been thinking about this all day, trying to figure out where the key to the city might be. Now, I don't think he has vision on most of my army but could be dashing his knight out and back to get a look. I figure I have 3 options right now:

1. Have CMF shift his units in the north a little to make room for me to come at a more northeast-to-southwest attack. This would use the city and terrain to jam his units sitting between the cities and make it harder for him to react. Of coarse, this option isn't really viable since it would take a while for CMF to move all his units and Cornflakes would have time to react. 

2. Swing south and go for his capital, hoping he is expecting a northern attack but there is only a small strip between the mountain and encampment. Not really a good option.

3. Charge right at the city next turn. I am expecting a knight on the farm south of the and ranged units behind the city (most likely crossbows but maybe archers). The horse that disappeared is probably sitting between the horseman we can see and the knight. I think the best option will be to attack the knight next turn with both knights and 2 crossbows. I can get one knight a +6 Flanking bonus, which is the same as the knight, and another to +8. Combine that with the GG and I will be attacking at a +5 and +7 respectively. Probably not enough to kill the knight but add 2 crossbow attacks and it should do the job. I will be risking 1 crossbow if there is a knight on the farm but whatever kills it would be exposed to counter attack. Then I can attack the city the turn after as I can get the ram next to the city. Then my other knights will be available to cycle through to minimize losses. Okay, I think I figured out what I want to do, so expect fireworks the next couple of turns. I expect some losses but hopefully I kill more than I lose which is doable if I make sure to maximize the flanking bonus. 

Anyways, as discussed earlier, I send Singaboy friendship...

And do the same to Rome. I expect Singaboy will rejected it as he will want to discuss it with Sullla beforehand, which is why I sent it to both. Let them discuss it after Singaboy plays, then Sullla can accept it or reject it and we will know their intentions. 

Here is the motherland...

Builder finished at Isis, so I started the library. The active builders either moved our place mines. I am thinking at the next policy swap, I am going to replace the builder card with the settler card and have Amon and Isis pop out a few settlers each. Normally I would want them to grow and not lose population from settlers but they both have a lot of harvest-able food and can grow quickly afterwards and they have the best production. I also think Nu-Kandy and Horus will build a settler each. Not sure about the other cities.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Turn 103

A quiet turn for me, as I continue to guard Woden's flank and build towards the VA project, which is still on schedule. 




I check the diplomacy screen, but I can't offer Molotov-Ribbentrop an alliance yet - gotta wait for them to finish the civic first. Bah, their culture generation is and has been wretched since about t50 or so, who knows how far away they are? What I worry will happen is that we'll lose our armies defeating Cornflakes (I expect to win, but to take losses), while Rome/China, with 10 more turns of peace to build, will sweep in with fresh troops and grab the whole pot and the game with it. Hopefully Molotov-Ribbentrop's friendship expires soon, they don't want to just sit in their corner and build the whole game, do they? Especially when they're already getting badly outbuilt by both their neighbors. 'course, they could still target US but I obviously think that's a wretched idea. 

Damn, that peace was an unexpectedly clever move on their parts. They get their prizes, they let us do the hard work of beating the army, and then get the prize. How DARE they do to us exactly what we were planning to do to them!

ETA to Monarchy is 5 turns, which will help somewhat - I can take Maritime Industries, Limes, and Conscription or Professional Army as needed, and still have slots for economics.



Only change is Serfdom for Meritocracy. It's only after I close the window that I remember I should have put in Limes. I commented two months ago that one of my biggest weaknesses as a player is that I'm sloppy - here's another example of it. Well, that doesn't alter the timeline - I think I can still get all my pre-builds in for the target t110. I'm going to do it with 4 worker - 4 chops on 110, then I'll handle the remainder. More efficient that way than sitting in Serfdom to build another...builder (ugh). 

Actium is ready for a chop:




I wish I had put hte harbor on the other side of Actium, but I didn't have that spot available at the time. This is a perfect spot for a Commercial District. Well, I have a plan for that, which I'll get to.

Anyway, the production overflow from the chop leaves me with a dilemma, because I hadn't actually planned what I wanted to build with it. I have a few choices:




I have an Aqueduct placed but not finished. The chop would finish it, and alleviate housing issues here for the rest of the game. 
I could place a Commercial Hub, but need 6 more turns to finish. Another trade route is useful, but is it urgent right now? 
I could place another district. Encampments, Theater Squares, and Entertainment districts are all 1 turn builds. 
I could build a lighthouse in 1 turn, enabling a Great Lighthouse stone harvest with another ship chop. 
Or I could get a jump on a settler. 

Ultimately, here's what I decide:



Most of my woes come from poor development since finishing the RNDs 20 turns ago. I should have gone straight for expansion then, pushing out to 9-10 cities like everyone else. Instead, I saw the build times, I fretted about Cornflakes/Japper, and I wasted my time with chariots taht I STILL can't upgrade. A better long-term plan at Turn 75 would have seen me forgo chariots, push my settlers, and have more productive cities right now. Well, enough self-criticism, time to start tackling the problem: I need more cities, and pronto, then I need to get to work on ships. 

So, a settler it is. This fellow is  intended for Jutland, the strongest site in the area. It's well-defended, has nice tiles to start, it has food to harvest for quick growth, and it dumps ships into the Mediterranean. It'll be a fine support city, and it's behind Woden's army, so it's safe for the whole game (because if Woden's army is wiped out then it's probably game over anyway). 

As the VA finishes, Trafalgar, Salamis, and Navarino, my highest-production cities, will kick out a settler apiece (going into Colonization, obviously), intended for Lepanto, Syracuse, and a new pin on the southeastern island. I can't realistically settle both spots on that island, not and have the city be productive by the end game, but one city gets VERY nice tiles in the middle. So, Savo Island is pinned.  If possible, I'd like one final settler for Dogger Bank (renamed Midway because it's inexcusable to have a city named after that minor skirmish and not have one named after the most consequential sea battle of the 20th century), maybe out of Aboukir. 

Aboukir and Leyte will hold on their builders until Serfdom, obviously. Then Leyte can go and improve Jutland's tiles, including harvesting a marsh for quick growth and a single chop to unlock the RND. Need this city up and running quickly. 

Here is an overview of the front:



In addition to the thousand other things I need, I'd like a backup ram. Cornflakes' best shot at survival is taking out Woden's siege engines and hunkering behind his walls. 

At Nan Madol I pull my army behind the hills. Japper has a crossbow in range, but now he'll need to climb the hill to shoot at me - and then I get first strike. If his Ngaos come instead, I can shoot them for peanuts and hit them with swordsmen for more, concentrating on one to weaken it. If he had numbers, he could grind through me here, but he doesn't. Why am I not pushing for Kinsasha, you ask? Well, I want to preserve this army until I can upgrade it. Taking Kinsasha just exposes me to Sullla's counterstroke in a few turns - he could declare next turn if he wanted. Instead, I need to keep Japper's army from supporting Cornflakes', then, when I can upgrade, I can bring in my own modern army and seal the deal in Khmer. 

I don't expect Singaboy/Sullla to take the DoF. It'd be a huge mistake if they did, and they don't tend to make huge mistakes, curse them. 30 turns of peace would solve all my problems. No more worries about the Roman army sweeping in, plenty of time to get my shipbuilding cities planted and churning out qgalleys and quads - no need to tech up to frigates until just before T135, when I can upgrade the whole lot at once. We're close in science and culture, and we'd have time to digest our new conquests. 

It's a nice fantasy, but we're more likely going to be at war with Team empire in 10 turns.

[Woden]

Nubia-Turn 104

It begins... Open the save to...

And thanks to CMF for finishing it last turn...

Checked and Singaboy rejected my Friendship but no notification from Sullla. I know I sent it last turn and I checked his screen and the option to send him a friendship is available again, so I have to assume he rejected it. Stupid notification system must have dropped the notification or dropped the friendship request. IDK, but I am going to assume the worst, that he to rejected it. Now, they could just want the option to attack if we take Kongo's capital or they could be planning to push on us after Cornflakes and Japper are out of the game. We will have to be on alert moving forward, which means no time for a massive expansion. This changes plans and my next policy swap...

I put in Professional Armies and Meritocracy and leave in Serfdom. I am going to need more builders to harvest food. I figure Singaboy is hoping to pray for a massive army to push on us. Well, I have a bunch of food I can harvest and pray for an army too. I just need the builders to do it. I will need a settler or 2 (at least one for crab city for upgrades) but will have to wait a little while. Let me get my current infrastructure complete and a few builders out, then can go for settlers. 

Nothing changed on the frontlines, so no before screenshot (and I also forgot to take one). In the south (I really need to rename this city), I shift units around and upgrade 2 crossbows...

The first crossbow completes the quest from the new commercial city state for +4, which was nice since it pays for teh maintenance of these 2 new units. Commercial Hub also finishes at Amon, so my income is at a nice 6.3. Not the best but no longer negative and it will go up from here as my 2 markets in production complete in the next 6 turns.   

Okay, enough with the crap you don't care about, let's get on to the blood. I move my units up at Cornflakes' northern city...

And start things off with my crossbow shooting at his knight. Then attack it with both knights at +2 flank(?). I guess flank works on the number of friendly units neighboring the attacked tile, not the starting tile. Didn't know that and good to know. The 2 knights redlined the knight, and...

I go for the kill with my 2nd crossbow. This lets my knights stay in formation and will get a +6 and +8 support bonus if attacked. Here is how it looks after the dust settles...

It is going to be a long day as I wait for the turn to make it back to me tomorrow. And of coarse if this weekend is anything like the previous few. Japper and/or Cornflakes will hold the save half the day tomorrow and I won't be able to play until night time. And that will make for a long day tomorrow as I wait to see what counter measures Cornflakes takes. Anyways, I don't think he can kill anything but maybe the crossbow (who has a promotion waiting) and if he did it means he left my knights alone. The knights should be 57 and 60 versus 40 in attacks from the crossbow and city and versus 48 (maybe 50) against the knights. He could hit the middle knight with 3 ranged attacks (1 city and 2 crossbows if he moves a crossbow into the city) and then hit it with a knight. or he could bring a second knight from behind the city and attack it.  Maybe it would be enough to kill it, not sure but it would expose another knight that would die and I have reinforcements.  I think this is the right play here. I guess I will know my next turn. 

CMF, if you remember, can you move the sword next to my knight into the water to open up the hill. Not sure if I need to move there but it would be nice to have the option. 

Here is my homeland...

 

Taueret finished a builder and started a trader. I also switched Nu-Kandy to a trader. I think I need those more than a temple right now. Amon finished the Commercial Hub and started a market. I should have the boost for Guilds by the time we need it. So CMF, if you have something to research before finishing Guilds, I will head there after Divine Right and pass the boost to you. 

Let's keep our fingers crossed that there are no surprises when I open the next save.

[Woden]

Does anybody know if capturing a city completely destroys walls (if completely damaged during attack) where you have to build a new set (listed at top of menu) or does it just damage them where you have to repair them (down by projects in menu)? I seem to remember having to option to build new ones after capturing cities but not sure if I am remembering correctly. I guess I could run a test but wanted to check first.

[suboptimal]

I'm not certain but my recollection matches yours -- if you completely destroy the walls in the city when taking it you have to build walls from scratch. I haven't experienced a situation where a city is taken with partially intact walls.

The wiki states that "no buildings but walls are completely destroyed". It does mention that if you have Civil Engineering completed when you conquer a city that it immediately becomes active.

[pindicator]

I think instead of Civil Engineering the automatic city defense are now at Steel

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

T104

It's finally time to chop out my IZ!




We'll build this bad boy in one turn, and then be ready to place the VA as soon as Mass Production finishes - and then, as soon as we have Monarchy, we'll be ready to chop 98% of her out in one turn! I don't think I'll get the whole wonder in one shot, I need one more chop for that, but I'll get damned close, and in a turn or two I'll finish with more chops. I DO have the builder labor for that. Let's just pray that Sullla doesn't finish on Turn 111 or 112, that'd be catastrophic bad luck.




One turn. It'll have a nice adjacency, too, once I get mines up on those hills, and if I can somehow manage to build a factory here, it'll boost potentially 4 cities, counting my new island colonies on the assembly line! 

Okay, now I have 6 turns to finish the walls (1 turn build) and a galley (which should take 5 turns) - I think I'm right on course. Meritocracy has pushed my civic time down a bit, too, to Turn 108, while Mass Production has fallen to Turn 107. So REALLY, everything will be in place on turn 108. 

So, let's talk about the role of luck in map generation. If you can't read my PBEM8 thread 'coz you're in that game or dedlurking, then this will all be new to you. If you've been reading that thread, you know I've touched on it a bit. 

I've had three massive strokes of luck this game:

1)That Nan Madol was the nearest enemy city-state to me. It could have been any culture state, or any non-state at all. However, it was the one city-state that synced perfectly with my civ, and filled in a gaping weakness in Woden and I's plans. I STILL haven't fully built monuments, as long as I have the top culture rate in the game (about 10 ahead of Rome at the moment, with half the amount of cities! [only half the amount of cities, yikes  ]). 

2)My neighbor was the incompetent Mike, rather than a tougher opponent. This has had a number of effects, from razing Aranyaka 50 days ago to that team incompetently allowing me to take suzerainity of a city-state on their home turf, AND then their failing to raze the thing. 

3)Navarino is a blessing. Not only was it perfectly situated to build the IZ, it has no less than THREE stone resources within 3 tiles. Note that the AI built this city, not me. That's a huge stroke of luck and it's entirely the reason I'm going to have a good chance at the Venetian Arsenal, which in turn will do wonders to make up for my laggardly development compared to Sullla. I won't have as many cities as him, but every city counts as 2 when building ships, and he doesn't have THAT big a science lead on Woden and I. In fact, Caravels and Frigates are so close that he'll only have avery small window to use them at all - I could have frigates by t120! Then he'll have to tech up to battleships. 

Now, I had to recognize the map and exploit it - that's what Civ is all about, after all - but I still want to acknowledge the rolls of the dice that have fallen my way. 

But the game also has given Woden and I our share of bad luck, me in particular vis avis the mpa. 

1)The isthmus. Every other team in the game has a 1-tile chokepoint that doubles as a defensive fortification and a canal. I, the one civ that planned a navy from the start, do not. I have to build ships separately for each ocean, and 4 of my 5 dockyards are on the wrong ocean strategically. That sucks, and it's a big part of why I need the VA even to be competitive. 

2)The continents. England gets boosts for its RNDs and its melee units on foreign continents. 3 of the 4 continents occupy 1 team's area, and end roughly at the isthmus. Guess where my continent's borders are? 

One is by Woden's lakeside city in the east, and the other border - is just before Japper's capital. Yep, Trafalgar is founded right smack dab in the middle of the largst continent in the game. By contrast, Singaboy's capital is just a few tiles from the continental border with Rome in one direction, and the border with Germany in the other. Many of my civ ablities have been effectively neutered by this asinine continent drawing (I do not blame Cornflakes for this, I blame the algorithm). So yes, I lucked into a city-state that synced with my civ. But I also got a continent draw that does the opposite. 

3)Natural Wonders. Our mapmaker can do nothing about these, but notice the distribution of Natural Wonders on the map. Sullla/Singaboy have Piopihati right there next to Rome, where Sullla's second or third city si founded. Japper  got the Pantanal right in his damn capital! Emperor and Archduke got a poor tundra placement of their fjord, but they still had one on their home continent. Woden and I...well, our first natural wonder was Pantanal, at Japper's capital, 60 turns into the game. Tsingy spawned on a tundra island far in the south, beyond Geneva. We got NO wonder on our own continent. If we'd been Russia, this would have torpedoed our game from the outset. Thankfully we made the decision to skip a religion at the start, but it wasn't entirely by choice.

So, has the map been good to us, or cruel to us? Well, it's tough to say. I bet any team could make a list of advantages and disadvantages they've had, like I have. So, it just brings to mind that old Buddhist story:

There once was an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. 

"Maybe," the farmer replied.

The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "Such good luck!"

"Maybe," replied the old man.

The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "Such bad luck..."

"Maybe," answered the farmer.

The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "Such good luck you have!"

"Maybe..." said the farmer.

So yeah. I think overall everything evens out. 

Oh, you wanted to know about the battle? I didn't do anything, sorry. :I

[suboptimal]

I think instead of Civil Engineering the automatic city defense are now at Steel

Yes, that is the case.   Forgot one of the patches moved that around (and I think that section of the wiki wasn't updated).