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Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread

Turn 110

I feel bad, haven't done a score report in a long time. I feel like I'm losing my grip on the larger metagame. I check research rates each turn, but I'm only vaguely aware of how many more cities everyone has than me at this point ("a lot"), and I've been doing a poor job keeping track of districts. The main thing I'm focusing on now is supporting Woden at the front and prepping the VA, while pushing out settlers everywhere else. After the settlers go down, the job will be twofold: Chopped RNDs at the new cities, and shipbuilding everywhere else. 

Anyway, I played this turn in a hurry, so here's a turn report in a hurry.

Fifteen turns after the original date, I finish Stirrups:




Once I get knights and crossbows on the field in force, I'll feel better. I'll have a semi-modern force, enough to push against Japper/Cornflakes and hold against Singaboy/Sullla. The main area my army will operate si the rough terrain around Nan Madol, while my navy will cover the city against Roman naval attack. I need to race to Caravels now - a Caravel fleet backed by a great admiral will hopefully give Sullla enough pause to get a powerful frigate flotilla in place to support. Caravels due t115, I'm going to save enough gold to upgrade 2 and jump into exploration. That will finally give me the economic tech I need. 

Sullla is moving to strike Japper next turn:




His army has vanished from around Kinsasha. Based on Woden's scouting in the south, I expect he will drive hard for one or both Kongo southern cities, and leave Kinsasha for mop-up. My timeline to get a modern army in place is very short here. 




Here's the homeland. Settlers everywhere. 2 turns until the VA is ready to begin chopping. This was my initially planned start date, and I COULD start chopping now - but the settler will grant me a larger chop, and it's more efficient to build the 1.5 settler cogs and use the chopped cogs on the Arsenal than to build the Arsenal straight-up and chop it. I could use Gothic Architecture, like Alhambram suggested, but it means giving up one of my precious economic slots in return for a handful of extra cogs. I have enough cushion to beat Sullla (looks like he'll finish about 5 turns after me), so I need those slots propping up my faltering science and culture rates. 

Jutland is in the corner. It's a nice city, with iron and a marsh first ring, and some good hills second ring. First growth is in 5 turns via natural food. The builder out of Actium (with 2 charges left) wil mine the iron and harvest the marsh for quick growth. Down the road, I'll use guilds to swap into serfdom, pop builders out of Aboukir and Leyte, and then use exploration to pop back out again. One of those builders will chop and mine the hill off Jutland's coast, using the walls to catapult into a finished RND and then start pumping ships. 

Finally, here's the broader war front:




Woden will capture the city next turn, with any kind of luck, but DAMN that's a lot of crossbows. I suspect ARchduke and Emperor are using their gold to prop up our enemies. I wouldn't mind if Japper does as good a job fighting Sullla as Cornflakes is facing us, but I'm not confident. frown
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Nubia-Turn 108

Second time is the charm, right? At least I hope so! I start the turn off with...




Now time for a new government and policy setup... 




Limes for walls, Feudal Contracts for units Anyways, and I keep conscription since I would go bankrupt without it. I go with Charismatic Leader since there are no more city states that I don't have an envoy in. I stay with Meritocracy for culture and decide to go with Natural Philosophy until the next civic because I won't be building any settlers in the next 3 turns. 

After I close the screenout, I get a slew of boosts...







Guilds since I finish my second market, Castles for having a 6 policy government, and Medieval Faires since CMF finished it. 

Now for what you have been waiting for. I screenshot of the before didn't take but Cornflakes positioned a sacrificial horseman on the tile just east of the city center. I move my knights up around it to make room for my back crossbows to move up and kill it. Here is what it looked like as I set up to take the city...



I hit the city walls with 1 knight and 2 crossbows to remove them. Why 2 crossbows and mot another knight? Well, my knights get way better odds and more damage. Here is how it looked after the attack...



One more knight attack and I would have taking the city. I left it with 58 HP and it will heal to 78 HP after Cornflakes turn. I figure I will probably lose 2 knights and the ram in between turns. Hopefully not the 3rd knight but it doesn't really matter. I have enough crossbows to remove the heal of the city and 2 fresh knights to storm the city, take it, and instantly build walls. Losing the ram will be tough but I have another finishing in the captured Khmer city in 6 turns. It will probably take that long to get rid of the rest of Cornflakes units. Hopefully he see the city as a lost cause and pulls back instead of counter attacking but highly unlikely. 

Down south...


 

No units show up. I move ahead and spot 3 warriors and a chariot. I kill 1 warrior and here is how it ended up...


 

Only 1 crossbow could enter the fight, next turn all 3 should be able to attack. I did sent a horseman up north to check to see if anybody was gaurding the iron. I see no one there and also spy a trader. I am going to pillage the iron since it is their only supply(?), so COrnflakes knights can't heal and he won't be able to upgrade any knights, then maybe pillage the trader. 

Back home...


 

Finish the Holy Site at Thoth and market at Amon and both start swordsmen. I will switch to walls at Thoth next turn since the next level will be available and chop into the shrine and temple. I switched Osiris to walls to chop into a university and I will chop the walls at Nu-Kandy next turn. 

I check the Great People screen and see...



Gemrany is now making 14.2 gpp for teh next scientist. He will definitely beat me to it. I go and check his science rate...



He is now making 114.6Icon_Science! Wow, he must have finished a few universities or a couple of campuses. He is making ~30 more than me and 20 more than Rome. We better watch out. 

CMF, try and send a friend request to Rome and/or China next turn, if you didn't this turn. I think with the spike in research rate and us not attacking Japper, they may be looking for a partner to work with against Germany and Russia. Not saying we would work with them but it would be nice to get 30 turns to expand and develop. I did send Russia a friend request since the DoF expired, so that we can see if they are planning anything. 

In 3 or 4 turns, do you think you can spare at least 100 gold, 200 would be better? I want to upgrade at least 1 musket near Khmer to guard the new ram and show show Rome that we are equals in tech. I know you have a lot of units to upgrade but I don't think I will have enough pulled together by the time the ram is finished.
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Nubia-Turn 111

I am so grateful that Japper was able to play remotely today. It was starting to look like I would have to wait until Monday to see what damage Cornflakes did to my units and how many knights I lost. I was really worried that I would lose all 3 of the forward knights, but as luck would have it, I was able to find out today. 

I start with...



But who really cares about that. This is what the war looks like... 



He was able to take my knight and ram combo but that was it. He did attack my southern knight but was not able to kill it. Now he has a knight in the open and I can take the city, which is what I start off with. I hit the city with the fuller health knight and then teh red-lined, which was enough to take the city and have my injured knight protected by the city... 



I keep the city, start repairing the monument and...



Instantly build walls with faith. The city should be safe from being recaptured since I don't see a ram around. I have to say I am really liking Valletta right now. This brings my total free production to 1,275Icon_Production. I shift my other units around to push against his crossbows next turn. I didn't want to push to hard this turn as the path between the city and mountain is an alley of death, being able to get hit by at least 5 crossbows. My plan is to put a crossbow in the city and move a few more around the city and start working on them while my knights heal and my ram gets built. Here is what it looked like after I moved my units...



Down south...


 

No counterattacks? Okay, I start working on his units. I start by taking out the chariot to prevent another knight from popping up. They take out a warrior. Here is what it looks like after the dust settles...


 

I did move the archer out of the city to get vision on his encampment. Lots of fricken crossbows here. 

Back home...


 

I finish Castles this turn and switch Thoth to Medieval walls. The sword at Isis finish and I start Ancient walls. It states 2 turns to complete but I want maximum overflow, so I rearrange tiles to bring it down to 3 turns...



This will line up with the the builder being able to chop the last jungle in this city. I am debating if I want to overflow into a university or settler here and at Thoth. I will have 3 universities completed with overflow chops (Nu-Kandy, Osiris, and Horus), so not sure if I need another one right now. I won't catch up with Germany on universities alone and need more cities. The chops at Thoth and Isis will speed up getting 2 more cities out. I have a few turns to decide but am leaning towards settlers instead of something else. Traueret finishes its trader and I start a campus. I should have placed it last turn but forgot. Not sure how many turns I will put into it as I need to buy the forest tile to chop out walls to finish it but also need money to upgrade Muskets. We will see. I plan on a campus and encampment in Truaeret with wall chops but need to buy both tiles. May switch to a settler once I have the card in place. 

Sullla did declare on Japper again this turn, so he only has a few turns left. I think the Khmer capital is safe for teh time being with all the units around it. I didn't get a notification that Emperor K accepted or rejected my friendship offer and now I am thinking I mean too but forgot to send it last turn with all the action going on. IDK, I will have to dig in my deleted screenshots to see if I got a picture of it.  I might have to resend next turn or we can wait until CMF's DoF expires. Anyways, they don't have much for an army, so no worries at the moment and they can't declare until T117 at the earliest.
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Question for the lurkers out there:

Given the cheating earlier to get the first religion and Jesuit Education, would it be ethical for me to use Jesuit Education if/when I capture the holy city? 

I don't know if it has been discussed in the lurker thread yet but I would like to know what the community thinks. It may seem premature since I don't have the holy city in my hands right now (I do have it at another city though) and I am probably jinxing it by asking but it would be helpful to have your opinion for planning purposes. If I can use it, no real need to build more than 2 universities (for boosts) as I can spread the religion to my science cities and faith buy them. 

I personally wouldn't have an issue with Rome or China using it since they got screwed by the cheating and they would have had the belief instead if not for the cheating. But for our team, would it be abusing someone else's cheating and then have the other teams say we benefited from the cheating? I guess I could look at it like we are just capturing a city following the religion with the belief but I really would like a ruling either way to fend off any future drama (maybe not all, but some).
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Woden, Archduke proposed an alliance. I am inclined to take it. I will hold the turn another hour or so to let you respond, if I don't hear anything, I'm going to agree. It locks down one border guaranteed and might browbeat Rome/China into a DOF as well.
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Went ahead and accepted it. Did not offer a DoF to Singaboy/Sullla yet, although I'll take one if they offer. If they attack us now, they get to fight all 6 other teams at once, let them come. I figure this gives us 30 turns to build and plan, and we put hte last 30 turns of peace to good use. At the end of it, we can evaluate the diplomatic situation and which team to try to ally with for the 2 v 1. 

Big update later showing off Russian and German lands.
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Not-Turn-111

Well, maybe turn 111

Okay, so Archduke tested the waters last turn with a delegation, then this turn as he presumably finished Civil Service he came offering an alliance. I didn't want to hold the turn too long, which was perhaps a mistake, but I went ahead and accepted. 



My reasoning is that
1)Yes, Germany has placed himself in the position of game leader at the moment. He has an astonishing number of districts, with good adjacencies, which translates into fiscal, scientific, and cultural power. 
2)However, we are not in a position to contest Germany, nor will we be within 30 turns. We need about that long to finish off Khmer and rebuild our own stagnant infrastructure, integrating the new Khmer cities into the empire. 
3)Diplomatically, accepting the alliance puts lots of pressure on our other rivals, Rome/China. I've been worried that they would let Woden and Cornflakes bleed each other dry, then steamroll us both with a faith-bought Chinese army, letting them take the entire continent and firm command of the game. Now, that's still possible, and hell, as I talk about it, it may be their best move. However, this way they're guaranteed to draw Germany/Russia into war (DoF or no DoF - although it may be impossible for them to attack us while they have a DoF with Germany/Russia? Not sure about this situation) if they attack - so essentially this alliance secures peace on both our borders, on effectively our teams (we can attack Rome/China down the road if we want). Later, on T113 or so, I'll offer a DoF with Rome/China (unless Woden does) just to lock in 30 turns of VA shipbuilding when the wonder finishes the next turn. 

So, we have roughly one month to finish this war, plant our new cities, and get our infrastructure up to snuff. A period of peace will let me solve most of the problems of my civ, I feel, now that I don't have the pressure of an impending military attack. I can cover Nan Madol for 30 more turns, and start cranking out quadriremes. 

Let's take a look at Russia/Germany (you lurkers already know all this stuff, but it will be new to Woden). We can pore over these maps and get a really good grasp on their civs' strengths. Images spoilered for size. 

An overview of southwest Russia:


3 of these cities are Emperor's new plants, taking advantage of Russia's ability. Even with Russian tundra, though, they're marginal cities - I wonder if they'll repay the cost of the settlers? He spent ~500 cogs building these cities. 

Southeast Russia and Germany:



More established cities here, including Germany's capital. 

Northwest Russia and Germany:



Includes the Russian capital and first expansion, and their border with us. 

Northeast Germany:



Note the extreme clusters of Hansas. In one area Germany has 3 Commercial Hubs and 2 Hansas adjacent to each other and a river. 

Okay, so much for the broad overviews, let me show off cities in detail:

The Russian frontier city of al-Whalewarsbram



A peaceful agrarian city. A pasture, plantation, and mine supply the city, a lavra sits nearby, while an encampment watches the nearby Nubian border. 

The chilly outposts of al-Wildlifebram and al-Auroraaustralisbram:



These frozen colonies have yet to contribute to the Russian empire. Was Emperor desperate for land? I guess he fears England's navy or he would ahve settled the islands. 

The triple cities of Al-Swampbram, Al-Castlebogbram, and Al-Abitchillybram.



The notable features here include Al-Swampbram's lavra nestled up against the fjord, and the triple rivers near Al-Abitchillybram granting 2 double adjacency Commercial Hubs and a double adjacency harbor (with canal to the outside and the fjord nearby to promote naval units, I'm jealous). 

The twin cities of Al-Shellfishbram and al-Mammothbram:



Al-Shellfishbram exists in a pleasant countrysided dotted with lakes and rice paddies. Al-Mammothbram subsides on hunting and industry further to the south. Note another lavra on the fjord. Russia drew some very pleasant land. 

Al-Pancakebram:


A thriving jungle city, Al-Pancakebram lives off its bustling banana plantations, also featuring one of Russia's few centers of higher learning. I wonder if Chichen Itza will go up here eventually? Seems a good spot for it. 

Russia's capital, Al-Holybram:


Russia's capital sits in the middle of a huge plain. Lots of tiles still to be improved. Locating the Commercial Hub 2 tiles south would have given it double river adjacencies and enabled Great Zimbabwe, I think. 

On to Germany! 

Kreutzberg:


This idyllic retreat from the world features dramatic performances on the lakeshore. Like all German cities, it has a nearby Hansa, and we can expect to see a Commercial Hub going up soon to take advantage of that river commerce.

The German capital, Marienberg: 


This megalopolis, along with the nearby cities of Butow and Osterode, is the beating, throbbing heart of Germany. The hills around the city are alive day and night with the sound of mining operations, while the whole riverfront down to lake Butow is covered in warehouses, docks, and merchant stalls - a continuous commercial district almost the entire length of the river. Just beyond the commercial hubs lie Hansas, boasting skilled and accomplished craftsman whose goods quickly find their way to the river and thence to all of Germany. This really shows off what Germany is capable of.

The cities of Butow and Osterode in more detail:


The city of Butow is clearly the more mature. Its university is one of the finest in the world. 

North Germany, Alschwangen, Memel, and Konigsberg:


While this northern triad of cities doesn't have the same network of rivers that southern Germany and Russia do, they have an incredible array of hills (most look recently denuded of trees and there's a suspicious number of German ships nearby) ready for mining. These cities are closest to the Nubian frontier, but feature only a token land presence. The German navy, largest in the world (it's true!) is based around Konigsberg.

Finally, the military city of Talin:


The city is hard to distinguish under the sea of military units. Most of Germany's land forces confront the powerful nation of China across narrow isthmuses (isthmi?). Germany has rightly added a huge amount of ships to bolster her defenses, and a winding canal allows her to - with some difficulty - transfer ships to the sea in the south. The presence of a Russian missionary leads me to suspect that Archduke and Emperor haven't yet realized that Archduke isn't protected by Defender of the Faith - or they're just pre-empting a Chinese crusade. Difficult to say. 

Emperor I think has good land, but hte potential isn't fully tapped yet. I would have gone with more builders before the wave of settlers grabbing all that, uh, tundra, but what do I know? I'm an idiot. Archduke finished his hansas, then I think chopped out campuses like mad. I forgot to get an exact count. 

I DID get an exact count of units, though, plus my best guess at Rome's and Kongo's. I'm working on a table of every visible unit, but having trouble. In the meantime, here's a map of the front:




And an overview of my own rather puny civ:




Next turn is VA chopping.
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Woden, two things I'm wondering:

1)How risky would it be to swing against Kinsasha and take it, particularly if we get a DoF with Rome? Cornflakes still has his army at the capital, so Sullla can't just storm in and take it. Cornflakes' capital is definitely the bigger prize, but another coastal city for me wouldn't hurt. If I can generate the gold, I could upgrade my knights and push on the city myself, but I am in a race with Sullla here.

2)If we get a DoF with Rome, I'm wondering if we should just stamp out Geneva as more trouble than it's worth. If one of us can keep suzerainity, fine, but stretching envoys between Geneva and Nan Madol and Valetta is tough with all these players. Cornflakes and I both have five envoys and I have quite a while to go before I generate another one (Geneva's quest is build a Holy site).
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(March 31st, 2018, 10:24)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Went ahead and accepted it. Did not offer a DoF to Singaboy/Sullla yet, although I'll take one if they offer. If they attack us now, they get to fight all 6 other teams at once, let them come. I figure this gives us 30 turns to build and plan, and we put hte last 30 turns of peace to good use. At the end of it, we can evaluate the diplomatic situation and which team to try to ally with for the 2 v 1. 

Big update later showing off Russian and German lands.

Sorry, I left the house early this morning and was down in the river valley where cell phone coverage is spotty at best.  Good call on accepting the alliance. I will check when I play but I am pretty sure Rome/China can't declare on us while they have a friendship with Germany/Russia. This is good, now we have some breathing room to finish Khmer off and develop our empires.
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(March 31st, 2018, 12:25)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Woden, two things I'm wondering:

1)How risky would it be to swing against Kinsasha and take it, particularly if we get a DoF with Rome? Cornflakes still has his army at the capital, so Sullla can't just storm in and take it. Cornflakes' capital is definitely the bigger prize, but another coastal city for me wouldn't hurt. If I can generate the gold, I could upgrade my knights and push on the city myself, but I am in a race with Sullla here.

2)If we get a DoF with Rome, I'm wondering if we should just stamp out Geneva as more trouble than it's worth. If one of us can keep suzerainity, fine, but stretching envoys between Geneva and Nan Madol and Valetta is tough with all these players. Cornflakes and I both have five envoys and I have quite a while to go before I generate another one (Geneva's quest is build a Holy site).

1. I think this would pull my troops out of position to take the Khmer capital. Yes, Cornflakes has a lot of troops to slow down Rome but if Rome advances and my troops are elsewhere, he could block me out and I would be forced to attack from the more dangerous east side. You could advance with your troops and try to take the city. Let me see how Cornflakes reacts, maybe I can peal off a knight or 2 to help out.  

2. Let's keep Geneva around for a little while longer as I am getting good science from them. If Rome or Germany start putting massive envoys in them, then we can attack and take the city. Taking Geneva out also mean less city states for everybody's envoys and more pressure on the other city states, including Nan Madol and Valletta. I would say focus your envoys into Nan Madol and we can look at Geneva a little further down the line.
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