As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer

Create an account  

 
Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread

Turn 112

I want to go to bed, the turn got here late, but you guys have been looking forward to this for a while. Today is the day that all preparation si complete and we commence building the Venetian Arsenal! Sullla has a 12 turn head start, but I think my plan to snatch it is a good one. Let's dive right in, eh?

Here is Navarino, with all prepared:



Standing by are 4 builder with 8 charges between them. Between tile purchases and natural expansion, I have acquired 3 stones, 2 jungles, and a forest to chop. In the build queue I have a galley, a quadrireme, and walls all 1 turn from completion. I also have the settler 1 turn away. This will translate into 3 stone chops, 1 boosted 150%, 2 boosted 100%, and one forest chop, boosted 50%. The stone gets the higher boosts, obviously, one jungle gets a galley boost, and the mop-up jungle chop gets no boosts at all. I have exhausted every resource I have to try and speed this thing up, and I am out of ideas. Let us begin. 




Stone gets the predicted value of 112. We will multiply it x2.5 (sadly Monarchy is NOT multiplicative, but additive), so I expect 280 cogs from this chop, not 336. Hopefully I don't miss the wonder by 50 production in the end (about 2.5 turns of native production). 




At the end of it, the walls show 347 cogs, or 267 total overflow - just as planned. Now, to add the other two stones...

We chop out the galley, for 224 total cogs.



Then the quadrireme, for a similar amount...




That's all the stone. Our last big boost this turn can come from the settler. He'll get 89 cogs, x1.5, for a total of 133 cogs. All told, I produce 280 + 2(224) + 133 cogs, and lose 70 in cleaning up the loose builds, for a total of 791 cogs invested in the Arsenal. With Navarino producing 20 cogs per turn, to cover the final 130 production will take 7 turns. So, if the Venetian Arsenal shows 7 turns, then we calculated everything correctly and we have basically guaranteed ourselves a turn 114 finish. 




Chevalier, you did something right.

Okay, so we end the turn producing the VA. That will add 20 production and bring the project to 810 cogs (30 below what I was hoping for. I lost 50 from the Monarchy walls mechanic misunderstanding, so where did I gain 20 back? Huh). Next turn, 113, we'll swap to a galley and put 40 cogs into that (Maritime industries). Then we chop a jungle for 45 x 2 = 90 production, -25 to finish the galley, so 65 total (exactly the same as if I just build the Arsenal normally that turn and chopped the jungle unboosted - this way nets me an extra galley, see? It's "free" thanks to Maritime Industries' boost). The Arsenal will be at 875. A second jungle chop brings it to - 920 on the nose. 

Total build time: Still projected at 3 turns. Sorry it's not a 1-turn wonder, you'll have to settle for 3. I still think that's pretty darn good. :smile

I send my mostly-free settler to Savo Island, where stone, forests, and cows will let it grow relatively quickly:




Savo will be a shipbuilding and trading center. One builder will harvest the cows for a quick burst of population, and chop a ship into an RND and trader to boost gold, science, and culture. I'm falling behind the Rationalist empires with their mountains of campuses, but this will close the gap a bit, and improve Woden and I's sagging finances - our biggest weakness as a team right now is not research, which we're still more or less competitive in (I'm well ahead of Emperor and roughly tied with Singaboy, Woden is ahead of the three of us and a little behind Sullla and Archduke), but gold. I need gold especially to upgrade knights, caravels, crossbows, and soon frigates. 

That's why the alliance with ARchduke was badly needed for us. We're at the techs we need - but we need the money to covert our armies to the modern types. If Sullla and Singaboy can't attack us for 30 turns, lest they provoke a 2 v 1, then we have the time to hit the upgrades we need and get the infrastructure in place for the next round of upgrades. I'm going to be building straight quadriremes where I can until I hit Square Rigging, then I'll have a mighty navy led by elite admirals, with some fleets and armadas thrown in from the Mausoleum. smile I think we're doing all right. 

At the front, my handful of upgraded movements move up alongside Woden's, while I wait for Guilds to swap into PA and upgrade the rest. Woden sends me some tobacco - thank you! - and I monitor the Sullla/Japper front:




Japper has 2 Ngaos and 2 xbows facing 1 Roman Xbow visible, and 2 Roman galleys. The rest of Sullla's army has vanished into the fog - he must be driving on the southern cities first. That makes sense. 

I feel okay about our chances. I erred badly in building my military without the gold to upgrade it, but I think I have a bit of time to catch up in expansion and development. The next month or so will probably set us up for the endgame - I think Woden and I's main strategic goal is to ensure that we digest our conquests, keep our economies in the running, and ensure we're on the right side of the 2v1, whether it's against Rome/China or against Germany/Russia. That gives us our best window to win, and what we'll work towards.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
Reply

Nubia-Turn 111

Finally got the save again after all the internet troubles and holiday weekend. Had to take a minute to refresh myself on what was going on. Start off with...



This should raise the harvest yields enough to finish the universities in 1 turn, starting with Nu-Kandy... 



106Icon_Production yield, giving 265Icon_Production to the walls. Plenty to finish a 225Icon_Production university. Do the same at Osiris. Finishing both will give the boost to Printing and Astronomy next turn. 

From the notifications, it looks like Cornflakes was able to kill a horseman and crossbow. Here is what it looks like before I move... 



He exposes 2 crossbows that I easily dispatch. I move my injured knights to the backlines and push up with my crossbows. I kill both crossbows and a warrior down south. I retreat the horseman to hopefully draw his crossbows onto the hills, so I can counterattack with mine. Better to play it safe than waste units. Here is what it looked like at the end of the action...



He can move up one crossbow to attack but it will die next turn and most likely can't kill mine. I plan on pushing up and striking a crossbow or 2 next turn. Slow and steady wins the race, right? 5 turns until the ram is complete. I will switch to professional Army next turn and upgrade a musket in 2 turns, thanks to...



Thanks CMF. This will give me one Musket and I might have enough gold for another by the time the ram finishes.

I notice that 4 of my cities are now unhappy and I go to check my resources. The deal with TheArchduke has ended so I send it again...


 

Hopefully he accepts it, I don't see why not. He has a spare and it gives him another luxury. 

Lastly, I send my 2nd trade route...


 

This should help with the income a little. I did finish another trader that I also sent to Horus but that one will be a domestic route to get a road from Horus to Traueret and help Horus grow a little.
Reply

CMF,
I forgot to post it but I did check in game and was able to declare war on Rome (not grayed out, saying some member of your team has a friendship with them). This means Rome/China can declare on us and I am pretty sure since Germany/Russia have a friendship with them, they can't declare war due to the alliance. This means we have to be ready for war with Rome/China. Given that you will complete the VA in 2 turns and my military power falling so much, I am expecting a war declaration from China/Rome as soon as they finish off Kongo.

I think are immediate plans should be to increase our income as much as we can in the immediate future. For me, my plan is to kick out 2 settlers with walls chops. The first one will go to crab city to help my income and the 2nd will go to the middle of the jungle by Khmer's capital, so I can go chop happy to get faith to faith buy units in about 10 turns. I also bought a missionary this turn and will again next turn to try to get the boost for Reformed Church. In the intern, I am going to go after Medieval Faires before RC to get Merchant Confederation up and running for gold. I also plan on chopping out a Commercial Hub at Osiris with another stone harvest into walls. I should be able to get a decent income in about 10 turns.

I suggest you at your next policy swap, you run Merchant Confederation and skew your policies to gold generation. Not only do we need upgrade gold for our current armies but also will need a bunch for Frigates. I hope your next tech target is Square Rigging because we should be relatively safe once you have a bunch of Frigates.

Anyways, if Rome/China do decide to push on us, we may want to use the dense jungle to slow them down. They may be able to take the Khmer lands but I think our core should be safe. Not much we can do about it if they push, might be a good idea to think about this and think about how you want your army positioned in the coming turn. I figure we have about 5-10 turns before they do anything, if they are planning something. Interesting times are coming!
Reply

Beautiful job on the VA CMF, really impressed with how you two are doing this game I have to say, it's been a pleasure to watch. I'm really sorry I haven't been able to ded-lurk since the incident. 

As an aside, before I start up a game this summer, I'm going to need to get one of you to explain the new district formula to me, I feel really behind the curve on Civ6 compared to you two these days  lol
Reply

I have to agree on the VA chops. Very well executed.

Aside from turn playing issues that's the second reason why I'll never participate in any games here. That level of commitment to micromanagement is just beyond me, but I applaud you for doing it and enjoy watching it!
Reply

(April 3rd, 2018, 22:32)Woden Wrote: CMF,
I forgot to post it but I did check in game and was able to declare war on Rome (not grayed out, saying some member of your team has a friendship with them). This means Rome/China can declare on us and I am pretty sure since Germany/Russia have a friendship with them, they can't declare war due to the alliance.  This means we have to be ready for war with Rome/China. Given that you will complete the VA in 2 turns and my military power falling so much, I am expecting a war declaration from China/Rome as soon as they finish off Kongo.

I think are immediate plans should be to increase our income as much as we can in the immediate future. For me, my plan is to kick out 2 settlers with walls chops. The first one will go to crab city to help my income and the 2nd will go to the middle of the jungle by Khmer's capital, so I can go chop happy to get faith to faith buy units in about 10 turns. I also bought a missionary this turn and will again next turn to try to get the boost for Reformed Church. In the intern, I am going to go after Medieval Faires before RC to get Merchant Confederation up and running for gold.  I also plan on chopping out a Commercial Hub at Osiris with another stone harvest into walls. I should be able to get a decent income in about 10 turns.

I suggest you at your next policy swap, you run Merchant Confederation and skew your policies to gold generation. Not only do we need upgrade gold for our current armies but also will need a bunch for Frigates. I hope your next tech target is Square Rigging because we should be relatively safe once you have a bunch of Frigates.

Anyways, if Rome/China do decide to push on us, we may want to use the dense jungle to slow them down. They may be able to take the Khmer lands but I think our core should be safe. Not much we can do about it if they push, might be a good idea to think about this and think about how you want your army positioned in the coming turn. I figure we have about 5-10 turns before they do anything, if they are planning something. Interesting times are coming!

Agreed, I need gold more than I need the science and culture of Trade Confederation right now. 

I'm not certain about the alliance  mechanics, though - I expected it to be defensive only, ie declaring war on US drags in Archduke and Emperor, but we can declare war and not involve them. I might be dragging in my Paradox experience, though, since that's how alliances work there. Honestly now that you mention it I have no idea how alliances in Civ 6 work in weird edge cases like we continually discover. The real question in my mind is Sullla/Singaboy can declare war on us, and if doing so overrides their DoF with Germany/Russia (in a Paradox game that would be huge news, since navigating around coalitions and alliance blocks is like half the gameplay of EUIV. Paradox obviously has a much more robust diplomacy system than Civ, though). 

I'll run some test games on it this afternoon to confirm the mechanics. Singaboy/Sullla's definite right move, if they can manage it, is probably to try and run right over us while they have the theocracy advantage and before the VA can kick in, but they might not see things that way. And if we can look threatening enough to give a good chance of a stalemate (ie upgrading my fresh army), then they'll probably not want to fight and let Russia/Germany run away even more. 

So yeah. Bottom line is I need gold, gold, gold right now. Next policy swap I'll grab all the gold-boosting policies I can, plus Professional Army (thanks Monarchy!) and start upgrading.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
Reply

Basic alliance in civ 6 does not get you as much as an alliance in eu4. Really, it's just 1 step up from a declaration of friendship. Just a basic alliance gives you enforced peace, shared vision, and open borders. You either need to get to Mobilization civic or you get the ability to sign a defense pact later - I'm not sure because I rarely see a game go that late.
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
Reply

(April 4th, 2018, 10:05)pindicator Wrote: Basic alliance in civ 6 does not get you as much as an alliance in eu4. Really, it's just 1 step up from a declaration of friendship. Just a basic alliance gives you enforced peace, shared vision, and open borders. You either need to get to Mobilization civic or you get the ability to sign a defense pact later - I'm not sure because I rarely see a game go that late.

Apparently it doesn't even give you as much as a Guarantee of Independence in EU4, if it doesn't even force the other person to help defend you. That's a terrible use of the term "alliance".
Reply

(April 4th, 2018, 10:05)pindicator Wrote: Basic alliance in civ 6 does not get you as much as an alliance in eu4. Really, it's just 1 step up from a declaration of friendship. Just a basic alliance gives you enforced peace, shared vision, and open borders. You either need to get to Mobilization civic or you get the ability to sign a defense pact later - I'm not sure because I rarely see a game go that late.

This is correct. A Defensive Pact would force them to declare war but I am still sure a DP doesn't break a friendship (have seen it in SP games). My main concern is as teammates we can't declare on another civ that our teammate has a friendship with and did not know if that is a function of an alliance or solely a function of teammates. It looks like it is a function of teammates and not alliances, since I have the option to declare on Rome or China and assume it is vice-versa. The hope was that since they have a friendship with Russia/Germany, they couldn't declare on us but it looks like they can. 

Now even with an alliance, Germany and Russia don't automatically declare war if we are declared on by Rome/China but it would have been nice if they could but they can't due to the friendship with them.  We have to worry that Rome/China are going to see their advantage at the moment and just keep pushing east. My hope is that they see Germany as an increasing threat and Rome/China need to halt aggression to develop a little more and maybe shift resources to their western border.

Will they attack or won't they really depends on how they see the current meta game. If they see their advantage right now against us, they will declare soon after taking out Japper. If they see the threat of Germany's increasing science rate explosion as a greater threat, they will come to us for a friendship in hopes of getting us on their side. I think the latter is in their best interests as we will just drag them down into a stalemate war while Germany techs ahead to a greater advantage but I am not sure what they are thinking. i guess we will know once Japper and/or Cornflakes are out of the game.
Reply

(April 4th, 2018, 06:32)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Singaboy/Sullla's definite right move, if they can manage it, is probably to try and run right over us while they have the theocracy advantage and before the VA can kick in, but they might not see things that way. And if we can look threatening enough to give a good chance of a stalemate (ie upgrading my fresh army), then they'll probably not want to fight and let Russia/Germany run away even more. 

This, right here, is making it incredibly hard to lay out a mid-to-longer term strategy for me. I want to push expansion right now to prevent falling to far behind, but if they push on us, I need to focus on military builds, especially crossbows for field cannons upgrades to prevent Calvary from rolling us over. Too many objectives without a lot of time and too many unknowns to effectively figure out the best path forward.

I guess the best approach right now is to keep it fluid until we get a better sense of what Rome and China have planned or how they react to CMF finishing the VA.
Reply



Forum Jump: