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Chevalier Absolutely Knows What He's Doing as Best Korea
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Let's see...settlers are done last turn, next turn, and turn 61. OCISLY I don't remember off the top of my head, but I believe both cities will have 0 leftover worker charges. Need to flip back through and take a look where I last wrote down the plans.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
Looked back over the numbers and found another problem: I'm chopping the forest to finish the second settler out of OCISLY.
Quote:T58 step on hill. So the 5-turn jump is unavoidable, I think, unless moving Magnus and chopping without him doesn't slow us down by more than 4 turns. OCISLY only has 9 production, though, so an entertainment district will be a 17-turn build without chops. 3 jungle agoge chops should do it, though? So I could built it in 5 turns. Maybe even get the first turn with Magnus, then transfer him on that same turn? Anyway, I think I need 2 builders, I need to build the ED at OCISLY, and I need to build the wonder at JRTI. JRTI can start work on those builders with Liang as soon as it finishes the settlers, to have them in place. This is also highly dependent on my opponents' moves in the next 4 turns, of course - I may need to prioritize defensive builds. I think the reason I might be pulling ahead in the settling race is that everyone else is waiting for the Ancestral Hall and 100% settler builds, plus free 3-charge builders at new cities. That's a lot of free production, true, but I'd rather spend production now to have the land, and then make it up with high population later.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about. 
When you get the save again, can you post the stated civics cost of Political Philosophy and Games and Rec and the stated tech cost of Construction and also Apprenticeship (these are the costs that are in the UI in the Tech tree and Civics tree)? It appears that there's a 20% increase in cost of techs ahead of the current era (and maybe even a stacking modifier for even further ahead). If so, the cost of Construction and Games and Rec is about to come down when the game era transitions to Classical and that will affect the timelines for Colosseum. I'm going to plan assuming that it's true since I believe it was affecting the numbers in my sandbox game, but would like confirmation. There's also supposed to be a 20% bonus to techs behind the current era, but we can't check that for a few more turns.
Incidentally, that makes Apprenticeship beeline a bit less attractive, since you'd have to pay 60 extra beakers for it. Edit: If you went directly from PP to Games and Rec, Games & Rec looks like it would finish on turn 72, assuming I'm correct of the price of both discounting to 110 once the era rolls. I think you have to assume that Rowain and Alhambram could unlock Games & Rec at a similar time. We don't know much about what Rowain has been doing but if he hasn't been using chops to build districts, he may have the builder labor ready to chop Colosseum. I'm not sure we can put together any kind of realistic plan involving chopping an additional time for the settler for Me I'm Counting in JRTI at turn 75 or so that will finish the wonder at a competitive time - that would involve 2 Magnus transfers. As a rough sketch, we'll need about 5 turns total to set up 2 Agoge chops, so the earliest we could start the Entertainment District is 75 or so., and we'd also have the delay for an additional agoge prep (unless you want to build a spear, in which case you can it to the original prep time). I feel like any serious plan to get the wonder has to involve starting at around that time frame, which leave no time for Magnus to leave OCISLY and come back. This also means we would have to commit the build queue at JRTI to 2 builders, crowding out any military builds (which could be done in the new expands, but will be pretty darn slow). Of course, we end up with 3 military units from Agoge chops, but so that will help in the mid term. I suppose the next few turns will sort out whether this is feasible, but we can't continue to delay building military for much longer. How do you feel about these timelines? Is the cost going to be worth it?
For tech, it looks like at currently projected tech rate if you switched right now to beeline Construction you would finish at turn 74 if you landed the Pasture boost to Horseback Riding, or 76 if you didn't. Since it's likely you won't need to start the Entertainment District until at least 75 or so (to preload the Agoge chops), maybe you want to do this. You could invest a few turns into Drama (or Mysticism or whatever) in the meantime.
Here's the link to the document: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing. There's not much there at the moment, just the tech/civic calculations. If you decide you're still interested in pursuing, I'll look at the build queues in the individual cities to try to identify when we can have builder labor available and what our turn estimation for completion is going to be.
Score report:
Three bits of minor news over the interturn, not too much change (makes sense since I did one literally a turn ago): a)Rowain is the first player to build a second district type, slapping down a holy site. This makes me feel good about my Stonehenge play - I'd honestly not even considered it, since the AI always beats me to the wonder, I had sort of discounted it. If I'd tried to compete on Holy Sites alone, this would have provoked a Great Prophet race. Sadly, he'll found a religion before I can scrape an apostle up, so no Church Property for me. That would have been too good. b)Alhambram pushed his culture 1 point higher - either a culture tile like marble, jade, silks, or coffee, or he finished a monument in his new city and it's under a bit of Loyalty pressure (monuments only give +2 culture if the city is at full Loyalty now). I think the first is more likely. c)Emperor's military score fell by 25 points - a warrior dead and another unit injured? - but no cities have fallen yet. Is this just a raid by Archduke or an all-out invasion? I think two of my new cities might consider a scout apiece, just to get some map knowledge and contact the last two players. On to my turn: Turn 57 A quiet prep turn for me, mostly. I wrapped up some things while the Chopocalypse continues at JRTI. Let's run through the quick housekeeping, then talk more about a possible Colosseum build.  My second builder consumes itself, giving OCISLY 3 improved tiles to work and 2 unimproved-but-okay tiles to work. I have a builder coming out, but I really need two more here - one to chop the jungles for the Entertainment District, and 1 to pasture those cows, plantation that chocolate, and mine that hill. I see no way to pasture the cows in time to land the horseback riding eureka.  Over here at JRTI, I'm about to grow, again, to size 6. Magnus's ability to chop settlers without costing a pop is shining here - the city WOULD be about to drop to size 3/grow to size 4 otherwise. When the third settler is thrown in, I'd be down to just 3 pop in my capital. Instead, I'm roaring towards the housing cap again (8, I believe, with the granary - another farm would bump it up again). Builder steps onto the hill to chop, then I will have one charge left. Can I reach the cows in time to pasture them? I don't think so, buuuut I could swap research for a few turns? Something to think about. Other possibilities are a mine on the quarry tile, or saving him for a chop later. Okay, let's look at the Colosseum. Here's Games & Rec at the moment:  15 turns at present rates. Political Philosophy takes 6, and obviously I'm not delaying a government to chase the civic. So we have roughly 14 or 15 turns to put together the inspiration. Here's the path to get to Construction:  144 science for horseback riding. 9 turns, plus 2 to finish archery - I think I actually CAN get over and pasture the cows to save a bit of time and science. I need to get there in 7-8 turns for maximum efficiency, I think I can do that. That leaves 7-8 turns to research Construction:  240 science, oof. Building a water mill would cut 6 turns - it's just there's no way to get suzerainity of Valetta in time, meaning I need to hand build it, plus spend 3 turns researching the tech to begin with. A water mill is 80 production, or 5 turns for JRTI to build. So the earliest we could land it would be turn 66 - 9 turns from now, which is a good time to boost Construction. I'm not sure, I think this boost is worth grabbing. We pause after archery, grab the wheel. Resume horseback riding, with more time to get the pasture down. JRTI starts water mill t61 after the settlers, finishes t66. We then start a pair of builders - we need one for OCISLY sooner than one for JRTI. My rough estimate is that the timeline works here. Magnus stays at OCISLY, Liang comes...sometime. Biggest downside is the delay in the Government Plaza or the Holy Site. With so many production queues tied up, I really need to get those DoFs to pursue this in safety. Build queue at OCISLY: Actually, mostly it's ready to go. It has a warrior and a slinger pre-built, I'll need to spend 2 turns to buff the archer in queue once tech finishes (OH! That reminds me! I need to swap to a slinger BEFORE the tech processes - otherwise the production will be lost! Must do that next turn!), for a third chop I could spend time on a spearman - but I only need 2 jungles to get an entertainment district. So, let's say we shoot for turn 75 as a target to begin this. We chop two jungles on turn 75 and dump all the overflow into the district. District should finish on turn 76, so we can start the wonder that turn. Magnus can be established on turn 80, and we can execute our forest chops on that same turn, maybe? If I use two builders working together, I can do simultaneous chops - but I'm not sure I can walk them from the jungles to the forests in 5 turns! But if I could, we'd land the wonder on turn 81. Can I get two builders out of JRTI in 14 turns? Maybe. Maybe even time for the water mill. I'll look at the specific numbers tonight. So best case, summed-up: t59: Archery finishes, start the Wheel. t61: Finish settler at JRTI, spend a turn on a builder. t62: Start water mill at JRTI. t63: Finish PP, start Games & R t67: Finish HBR, finish wheel, start Construction. t70: Finish builder? t74: Finish builder? t75: Finish Construction, Finish Games & R, chop entertainment district, reassign Magnus t76: ED done, start Colosseum at JRTI t80: Magnus arrives, chop Colosseum t81: Colosseum finishes. The main issue in the timeline seems to be getting the two builders out of JRTI, and getting them into chop positions. OCISLY will be occupied building settlers for much of the 60's, and I'm not willing to delay settling a spot for this project, since those spots are contested with Alhambram, and I need Magnus in the city for the settlers. Solutions? Build a second builder at OCISLY? Chop 1 settler out of OCISLY, then reserve the last builder charge for the district chop? Drop the water mill, hard-research Construction? Hard research Games & Rec? SKip the HBR eureka and save that builder charge for a chop? Lots of possibilities here. Need to think more.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
Aetryn, skanar, yeah, I think I should go for it. It's a big commitment, and it's probably greedy to push for 2 wonders so early in the game, but if it works, my culture - my biggest weakness I foresee, going forward - will get a huge boost (+14!), and amenities and loyalty will not be an issue. This will shore up a weak point of my empire, and when will I have such a beautiful set up for it ever again? 7 cities, all neatly arranged in about as tight a cluster as possible! If I get the settlers out, the new cities can handle other builds for a while while the two core cities focus on getting this ready to go.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
Those beaker/note costs ARE inflated 20%. Their prices should drop back to normal as soon as the age rolls (which from a previous post sounds like T60?). PP should actually finish turn 62 despite it telling you 6 more turns, because the price will drop from 132 to 110 on T60 or T61. Here are some scenarios for Games & Rec:
1) Just research it straight up. This should take until Turn 72 (I'm accounting for your Civic rate to go up to around 10.1 by turn 67 from new city pop). 2) Research it up until the boost and then shut it off and pursue the boost from teching Construction, but don't try to boost Construction OR Horseback Riding. This will have Construction finish on T76 (finishing up Games & Rec when the boost fires). This gives you something like 4 turns worth of culture to sink into other Civics. 3) Research it up until the boost and then shut it off and pursue the boost from teching Construction, and boost only Horseback Riding. This will have Construction finish on T74, which is probably a better timeline than #2 but consumes a builder charge building a pasture that we may need. The water mill might save 1 turn off of option 3, but I think the build queue time is more valuable than a few beakers right now (extra builders for one of the new cities, military units, whatever).
I agree. Option 3 seems the best balance. So, use my one spare charge on a pasture (need the tile improved anyway), then crank 2 builders out of JRTI.
And jungle normally gives 1/6 of a district. Magnus takes it to 1/3, and agoge takes it to 1/2. So two chops.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about. (April 10th, 2018, 19:01)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: I agree. Option 3 seems the best balance. So, use my one spare charge on a pasture (need the tile improved anyway), then crank 2 builders out of JRTI. If the new pop at JRTI goes to the 1-2 forest, those builders would finish on T64 and T67 (assuming not much overflow from the last settler). Slotting Ilkum when PP finishes will help overflow but I don't think it affects the timing. That should be more than enough time to get them where they need to go for chops. Liang won't be present for either of these builders, which is a shame but that's the cost of doing business. That leaves 5-6 turns free for another builder or two (still no Liang) or military units. Or the government District, which will unlock Liang. I feel a LOT better about the timelines knowing the agoge chops are already mostly preloaded. So if we assume Games & Rec will be done on turn 74, it looks like your completion time is turn 80 based on the plan above (which is the minimum you can manage with a 5-turn Magnus transfer). That seems pretty competitive, though we could you still miss it if someone goes all out. I still think we're at a point in Civ6 MP where people don't make this detailed of micro chopping plan for wonders, so I feel better about it than if this was a Civ 4 game. What happens if we fail? That's a good ED placement anyway, right? It's still going to hit a bunch of cities with a Zoo... well, if the game gets far enough for that to matter. And we can surely do something interesting with the failproduction (like build a Government District + Audience Chamber). By not choosing Option 1 we're finishing 2 turns later, but we're saving a bunch of culture (our weak spot) and also getting some tech and improvements we need. While it would be sad if someone else built this on 78-79, I don't know that selling out to that extent is really a good idea - it could still get sniped and researching unboosted Civics isn't really a good idea at this point. Researching unboosted techs doesn't bother me at all - we're going to have a high tech rate eventually, and the "ahead of time" penalty and "behind time" bonus will make it very easy to catch up. Plus, if we ever want a district discount we need to try to avoid unlocking any more district types than we have to.
Big problem with the micro - well, not big. It actually makes things easier, I think.
You need an Arena now to build the Colosseum, not just the entertainment district. That means another 150 production at OCISLY. Right now the city has 9, so I need one more builder there to either chop the arena, or perhaps build some mines and get native production up to around 20 or so, build the thing in 8 turns. That gives me time to move Magnus and set up the next chops, and we finish the wonder closer to turn 90.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about. |
