Chevalier Absolutely Knows What He's Doing as Best Korea

[aetryn]

Big problem with the micro - well, not big. It actually makes things easier, I think.

You need an Arena now to build the Colosseum, not just the entertainment district. That means another 150 production at OCISLY. Right now the city has 9, so I need one more builder there to either chop the arena, or perhaps build some mines and get native production up to around 20 or so, build the thing in 8 turns. That gives me time to move Magnus and set up the next chops, and we finish the wonder closer to turn 90.

That will probably trip everyone else up as well, so that's fine. We should be able to produce the extra builder in JRTI easily enough since it's a 3 turn build once PP comes in and Ilkum becomes a possibility.

Since the age is ending soon, what dedication to take? Here's my very back-of-the-napkin analysis of the Era Score we can pick up from each one (assuming we're aiming for a golden Medieval age and want Era Points).

1) Free Inquiry - let's assume we get boosts for Horseback Riding, Math, Engineering, Iron Working, Machinery, and Apprenticeship. Education, Stirrups and Castles are possibilities, let's say 50% chance of each.Then we would get one for every Library purchased- let's say all 4 more of those get built in the Classical Age (with 2 first wave cities lagging due to Magnus timing issues, general back-lininess, or the need to focus on other things).  Super-Accurate-Predicted-Value: 11.5 Era points
2) Pen, Brush, and Voice - let's assume we get boosts for Games and Rec, Recorded History, and Mercenaries. Feudalism, Military Training, Reformed Church and Civil Service seem possible, again, let's say 50%. I don't expect any Great Work buildings to get built, so our Super-Accurate-Predicted-Value: 5 Era points
3) Monumentality. 4 or so new Seowons + 1 Holy Site + 1 Entertainment District +1 Government District. Maybe a few Commercial Districts? Even-More-Accurate-Predicted-Value: 9 Era points
4) Exodus of the Evangelists: Hmm. Can we convert all 6 other first wave cities for 12 Era points? 14 if we both settle Me I'm Counting and convert it - settling seems likely, converting less so for a backline city that doesn't need the DotF bonus anytime soon.

Free Inquiry is probably the winner on balance since my Seowon estimate was pretty conservative, though I'd consider Exodus of the Evangelists just to have that extra incentive to spread DotF everywhere.

[skanar]

I think the Colosseum is worth pushing for, as it's exactly what your civ needs, but military must come immediately if you get it. The other players will put 2 and 2 together (Korea + Colosseum is extremely dangerous) and think about attacking.

Are you 100% sure that the EC+Arena and Colosseum can be built in different cities? Would be terrible to go through all the chopping only to discover that it won't work.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I agree. Option 3 seems the best balance. So, use my one spare charge on a pasture (need the tile improved anyway), then crank 2 builders out of JRTI.

And jungle normally gives 1/6 of a district. Magnus takes it to 1/3, and agoge takes it to 1/2. So two chops.

If the new pop at JRTI goes to the 1-2 forest, those builders would finish on T64 and T67 (assuming not much overflow from the last settler). Slotting Ilkum when PP finishes will help overflow but I don't think it affects the timing. That should be more than enough time to get them where they need to go for chops. Liang won't be present for either of these builders, which is a shame but that's the cost of doing business. That leaves 5-6 turns free for another builder or two (still no Liang) or military units. Or the government District, which will unlock Liang. I feel a LOT better about the timelines knowing the agoge chops are already mostly preloaded.

So if we assume Games & Rec will be done on turn 74, it looks like your completion time is turn 80 based on the plan above (which is the minimum you can manage with a 5-turn Magnus transfer).  That seems pretty competitive, though we could you still miss it if someone goes all out. I still think we're at a point in Civ6 MP where people don't make this detailed of micro chopping plan for wonders, so I feel better about it than if this was a Civ 4 game. What happens if we fail? That's a good ED placement anyway, right? It's still going to hit a bunch of cities with a Zoo... well, if the game gets far enough for that to matter. And we can surely do something interesting with the failproduction (like build a Government District + Audience Chamber). By not choosing Option 1 we're finishing 2 turns later, but we're saving a bunch of culture (our weak spot) and also getting some tech and improvements we need. While it would be sad if someone else built this on 78-79, I don't know that selling out to that extent is really a good idea - it could still get sniped and researching unboosted Civics isn't really a good idea at this point. Researching unboosted techs doesn't bother me at all - we're going to have a high tech rate eventually, and the "ahead of time" penalty and "behind time" bonus will make it very easy to catch up. Plus, if we ever want a district discount we need to try to avoid unlocking any more district types than we have to.

Missing won't be too bad. We get all our production back, which can be funnelled into either the gubmint plaza and audience chamber,  like you proposed, or into a holy site + shrine, or even multiples of those. The ED is a district I want to build there anyway, because I want to do shenanigans with Alhambram's city later, and it hits everything except But Who's Counting and Me I'm Counting (and the orphan stepchild that is I Blame the Parents). 

And yeah, this is a lot of micro, this and Stonehenge. I never tried any detailed planning like this before PBEMs, but both here and with the two wonders I got in PBEM7 it just sort of came together - you look at the city, then you look at how quickly you can build the wonder with that city, then reason backwards and start building what you need. PBEM7 spoilers:

In that game, I built the Venetian Arsenal in 4 turns total - but I also spent 25 turns prior to the build getting everything lined up. Doing it that way I don't think is wasteful, because you also get whatever you use to boost your chops out of the deal - in this case, 4 ships, a district, and a settler).

So looking ahead and starting the pre-builds now is key to landing those wonders early - you don't want to wait until you actually unlock the tech to start working on the wonder! And yeah, the discount is giving me a headache. I have 4 types unlocked now, or will, once G&R finishes. So in addition the ED, I need at least two more seowons complete, then build my holy site or government district...ugh, the math is hard. I hate it. 

Big problem with the micro - well, not big. It actually makes things easier, I think.

You need an Arena now to build the Colosseum, not just the entertainment district. That means another 150 production at OCISLY. Right now the city has 9, so I need one more builder there to either chop the arena, or perhaps build some mines and get native production up to around 20 or so, build the thing in 8 turns. That gives me time to move Magnus and set up the next chops, and we finish the wonder closer to turn 90.

That will probably trip everyone else up as well, so that's fine. We should be able to produce the extra builder in JRTI easily enough since it's a 3 turn build once PP comes in and Ilkum becomes a possibility.

Since the age is ending soon, what dedication to take? Here's my very back-of-the-napkin analysis of the Era Score we can pick up from each one (assuming we're aiming for a golden Medieval age and want Era Points).

1) Free Inquiry - let's assume we get boosts for Horseback Riding, Math, Engineering, Iron Working, Machinery, and Apprenticeship. Education, Stirrups and Castles are possibilities, let's say 50% chance of each.Then we would get one for every Library purchased- let's say all 4 more of those get built in the Classical Age (with 2 first wave cities lagging due to Magnus timing issues, general back-lininess, or the need to focus on other things).  Super-Accurate-Predicted-Value: 11.5 Era points
2) Pen, Brush, and Voice - let's assume we get boosts for Games and Rec, Recorded History, and Mercenaries. Feudalism, Military Training, Reformed Church and Civil Service seem possible, again, let's say 50%. I don't expect any Great Work buildings to get built, so our Super-Accurate-Predicted-Value: 5 Era points
3) Monumentality. 4 or so new Seowons + 1 Holy Site + 1 Entertainment District +1 Government District. Maybe a few Commercial Districts? Even-More-Accurate-Predicted-Value: 9 Era points
4) Exodus of the Evangelists: Hmm. Can we convert all 6 other first wave cities for 12 Era points? 14 if we both settle Me I'm Counting and convert it - settling seems likely, converting less so for a backline city that doesn't need the DotF bonus anytime soon.

Free Inquiry is probably the winner on balance since my Seowon estimate was pretty conservative, though I'd consider Exodus of the Evangelists just to have that extra incentive to spread DotF everywhere.

With the extra Arena time, I'm thinking I might want to slip in the government plaza after I finish the settlers. That will unlock Liang, which will make the builders a lot more efficient. I'm not sure what government I want, though - I ought to be in Oligarchy when I finish the Audience Chamber, and honestly Oligarchy is as good as a Classical Republic if you don't need the amenities and housing - same number of slots, just you can't run 3 economic cards at once. 

As for dedications, I lean towards free inquiry. I don't want to spend too heavily on missionaries if I don't have to - faith will be abundant, but not unlimited, and with libraries, monuments, granaries, water mills, missionaries, apostles, and down the road, traders, builders, settlers, and military units all competing for resources, I'll be stretched thin. Still better to have the options than to not have them, of course. 

I think the Colosseum is worth pushing for, as it's exactly what your civ needs, but military must come immediately if you get it. The other players will put 2 and 2 together (Korea + Colosseum is extremely dangerous) and think about attacking.

Are you 100% sure that the EC+Arena and Colosseum can be built in different cities? Would be terrible to go through all the chopping only to discover that it won't work.

I'm 100%. You can also build other wonders like this, too - eg the Great Lighthouse next to a neighbor's lighthouse/harbor, Great Zimbabwe next to another city's Commercial Hub, etc. 

And yeah, one thing I regret is that all the players will get the wonder notification and bring me to their attention. I already hate that they re-did the wonder, religion, and great people scoring - between them they account for nearly half my score, when you throw in the era bonuses. I now look frightening and scary on top of the scoreboard, when really all I did was build Stonehenge. 

Archduke is helping me out on that front. I think I've decided that the best thing possible for me is for him to conquer Emperor outright. He'll get a lot of land, sure, but land isn't the limiting factor, as I've found out - it's the cost of settlers. By the time he finally manages to get settlers out to exploit all that land, the game will be practically in the Renaissance or Industrial eras. In the meantime, he'll have managed to alarm his neighbors Japper and Rowain, which should push Japper closer into my camp - why pick a fight with the friendly Koreans, defended by their religion, when you have Genghis Khan and his whole army lurking on your border? - and he'll look like the big bad scary guy of the game, which should draw some heat away from me, I hope. I mean, it's certainly a good investment - for what he spent on his army, he gets two free cities, and whatever city states he wants to grab, too - but those cities are undeveloped and he'll be stretched thin to defend two players' worth of territory. When you throw in the nerfs to research rates from populations (districts matter more, now), and the fact that he has the same limited pool of governors as the rest of us, and I don't think overrunning another player, particularly one this early, is quite the game-winning move that it was when Sullla did it to Archduke a year ago. 

So, the gameplan is to really cross our fingers and hope for those DoFs on turn 61. That gives us until turn 90 to 

1)Convert our cities to The Culture
2)Build the Colosseum
3)Have a military in place to defend our gains
4)Build some basic research infrastructure in those cities and prepare for blast off. 
5)Launch an attack on Antioch - I actually want to do this as soon as I get the DoFs signed - I'll upgrade my slingers into archers and rush everything to the city-state. No sense hesitating, I need to take it before walls go up if I can. Don't wanna build a ram, no time for it. 

After turn 90 I'm not sure I'll need DoFs anymore - certainly not two at once. IF all goes as planned, I'll ahve a good fortified position and the base to explode in research. A DoF with one friend or another will let me focus on the odd man out as I please. 

If we don't get DoFs, we'll put the Colosseum on the backburner and instead put top priority on spreading The Culture and garrisoning our military. Then, once we have defenses in place, we shift into the wonder/seowon mode.

[aetryn]

So looking ahead and starting the pre-builds now is key to landing those wonders early - you don't want to wait until you actually unlock the tech to start working on the wonder! And yeah, the discount is giving me a headache. I have 4 types unlocked now, or will, once G&R finishes. So in addition the ED, I need at least two more seowons complete, then build my holy site or government district...ugh, the math is hard. I hate it. 

One shorthand you can use is that it's impossible to qualify for the bonus until you've built 2 copies of some district. Generally the easiest way is to pick one district and build a lot of it before worrying about the discount. Here's, it's probably Seowons. Then you build everything else as round-robin as you can. That won't work for long of course - you don't need that many Holy Sites and CAN'T build that many government districts, but it can work for a round or two.

With the extra Arena time, I'm thinking I might want to slip in the government plaza after I finish the settlers. That will unlock Liang, which will make the builders a lot more efficient. I'm not sure what government I want, though - I ought to be in Oligarchy when I finish the Audience Chamber, and honestly Oligarchy is as good as a Classical Republic if you don't need the amenities and housing - same number of slots, just you can't run 3 economic cards at once. 

The Government plaza is cheap enough that, as long as you put in Ilkum, you should have time to finish the builders and get them into position. I would leave the Audience Chamber for later and after the two builders build military or a Holy Site if you've reached population 7, to at least get the frontier settlements converted. While it's true that, if you sign a DoF in the next few turns, they can't hit you for 30 turns, they may well be using those 30 turns to put together a significant invasion force, and you may not be able to catch up in time if their power starts spiking 10 turns into it.  I'm just a bit worried about you looking too tasty to your neighbors. Japper has a completely distracted other neighbor and could still probably hit you at turn 90 without any worry about being hit in the other flank even if he's not ready to hit you now. Like wonders, military campaigns are planned many turns ahead, so you need to look spiky in the planning phase, not just the execution phase. Even if it turns out you beat back the attack, you don't want to win on defense, you want to not even be attacked.

As for dedications, I lean towards free inquiry. I don't want to spend too heavily on missionaries if I don't have to - faith will be abundant, but not unlimited, and with libraries, monuments, granaries, water mills, missionaries, apostles, and down the road, traders, builders, settlers, and military units all competing for resources, I'll be stretched thin. Still better to have the options than to not have them, of course. 

Seems fair enough. I think it's the obvious favorite.

Archduke is helping me out on that front. I think I've decided that the best thing possible for me is for him to conquer Emperor outright. He'll get a lot of land, sure, but land isn't the limiting factor, as I've found out - it's the cost of settlers. By the time he finally manages to get settlers out to exploit all that land, the game will be practically in the Renaissance or Industrial eras. In the meantime, he'll have managed to alarm his neighbors Japper and Rowain, which should push Japper closer into my camp - why pick a fight with the friendly Koreans, defended by their religion, when you have Genghis Khan and his whole army lurking on your border? - and he'll look like the big bad scary guy of the game, which should draw some heat away from me, I hope. I mean, it's certainly a good investment - for what he spent on his army, he gets two free cities, and whatever city states he wants to grab, too - but those cities are undeveloped and he'll be stretched thin to defend two players' worth of territory. When you throw in the nerfs to research rates from populations (districts matter more, now), and the fact that he has the same limited pool of governors as the rest of us, and I don't think overrunning another player, particularly one this early, is quite the game-winning move that it was when Sullla did it to Archduke a year ago. 

So, the gameplan is to really cross our fingers and hope for those DoFs on turn 61. That gives us until turn 90 to 

1)Convert our cities to The Culture
2)Build the Colosseum
3)Have a military in place to defend our gains
4)Build some basic research infrastructure in those cities and prepare for blast off. 
5)Launch an attack on Antioch - I actually want to do this as soon as I get the DoFs signed - I'll upgrade my slingers into archers and rush everything to the city-state. No sense hesitating, I need to take it before walls go up if I can. Don't wanna build a ram, no time for it. 

After turn 90 I'm not sure I'll need DoFs anymore - certainly not two at once. IF all goes as planned, I'll ahve a good fortified position and the base to explode in research. A DoF with one friend or another will let me focus on the odd man out as I please. 

If we don't get DoFs, we'll put the Colosseum on the backburner and instead put top priority on spreading The Culture and garrisoning our military. Then, once we have defenses in place, we shift into the wonder/seowon mode.

Yeah, PBEM1 was on a tiny map. Sullla took Archduke's cities, not his expansion land. Then he just continued to roll over the other players. I not sure there was actually even anywhere left to settle in the entire world by the time Archduke was out. So far, access to land to expand hasn't seemed decisive. The thing about timing attacks and why Sullla likes them is that you can stay relatively builder-y, encouraging your neighbors to also do builder things. Then you can suddenly swap to war mode and take their assets. It's getting the cities without having to pay for the settler cost, the builder cost to improve the tiles, and the already built districts that makes conquering cities a great thing. Especially since it's likely everyone else has just as much space as you do here, and can peacefully run up their settler cost pretty high already. So basically, I think you're probably right that if Archduke eliminates Emperor, then stops to consolidate, that it's not really that bad for you and the other players will possibly be more paranoid about their possibly aggressive neighbor. But high yields and nifty wonders are also a big warning signal and nobody will want to go fight Archduke and let you peacefully build further into the lead.

The only thing I can think of here is that Archduke is just not going to stop doing military. He could take these two cities and take out a player and never really attempt to do anything but unlock enough military to stay ahead and enough money to keep his army afloat and just keep marching on the next player. He probably has the tactical ability to defend his flank against Rowain while attacking Japper, which could leave you bordering Genghis when the medieval era rolls around and his unique unit arrives. I'm not sure if it works with the greater need to fit campuses in to stay competitive in science.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

So looking ahead and starting the pre-builds now is key to landing those wonders early - you don't want to wait until you actually unlock the tech to start working on the wonder! And yeah, the discount is giving me a headache. I have 4 types unlocked now, or will, once G&R finishes. So in addition the ED, I need at least two more seowons complete, then build my holy site or government district...ugh, the math is hard. I hate it. 

One shorthand you can use is that it's impossible to qualify for the bonus until you've built 2 copies of some district. Generally the easiest way is to pick one district and build a lot of it before worrying about the discount. Here's, it's probably Seowons. Then you build everything else as round-robin as you can. That won't work for long of course - you don't need that many Holy Sites and CAN'T build that many government districts, but it can work for a round or two. 

Right now I had a loose plan of a plaza at JRTI and an (unboosted) entertainment district at OCISLY, then quick seowons at I Blame the Parents and Another Fine Product. That will give me 5 districts completed, with 5 unlocked - Holy Sites, seowons, Entertainment Districts, plazas, and Encampments. That should discount the first holy site, which in turn will discount an encampment at I Blame the Parents. Then seowons at the other cities can discount some commercial hubs and get trade going, and finally at size 10 a discounted theater square at JRTI. From there we play it by ear. 

With the extra Arena time, I'm thinking I might want to slip in the government plaza after I finish the settlers. That will unlock Liang, which will make the builders a lot more efficient. I'm not sure what government I want, though - I ought to be in Oligarchy when I finish the Audience Chamber, and honestly Oligarchy is as good as a Classical Republic if you don't need the amenities and housing - same number of slots, just you can't run 3 economic cards at once. 

The Government plaza is cheap enough that, as long as you put in Ilkum, you should have time to finish the builders and get them into position. I would leave the Audience Chamber for later and after the two builders build military or a Holy Site if you've reached population 7, to at least get the frontier settlements converted. While it's true that, if you sign a DoF in the next few turns, they can't hit you for 30 turns, they may well be using those 30 turns to put together a significant invasion force, and you may not be able to catch up in time if their power starts spiking 10 turns into it.  I'm just a bit worried about you looking too tasty to your neighbors. Japper has a completely distracted other neighbor and could still probably hit you at turn 90 without any worry about being hit in the other flank even if he's not ready to hit you now. Like wonders, military campaigns are planned many turns ahead, so you need to look spiky in the planning phase, not just the execution phase. Even if it turns out you beat back the attack, you don't want to win on defense, you want to not even be attacked.

True, they are planned many turns in advance - have no doubt that I have that in mind. But they're also telegraphed multiple turns in advance. A DoF means I don't have to worry about having my units on the border right now, which gives me time to scurry down to Antioch and capture it and bring it back. It's one reason I want a single encampment at a spare border city - not to rush for a great general, but I want to start collecting points for a medieval or renaissance era general. That, Victor, and DoTF will give any units a +20 defense near Victor's city! Even if they bring a GG along, it's +15 to me. I want to stack as many combat bonuses together to make defensive units all-but invincible. I figure then as long as I maintain equal tech - and I'm Korea - and don't get outbuilt, I should be okay. I'm monitoring domination and gold scores in my neighbors closely. 

Initially I planned all that in case I wound up next to the Mongols, and that might still happen. I have two more tricks in mind for dealing with the Archduke: 

1)I want to send a trader to Japper at the first opportunity. The yields are whatever, but if I can start the trader soon after a renewed DOF, and run it for 20 turns, I get a trading post in his city for a level of diplomatic visibility. That's fine and all, but the real kicker is for the Archduke. If he captures Japper's cities, I get a level of visibility against him for +3 strength! What if he responds with a trader of his own?

2)If I ever border the Archduke, I'm thinking I might just go ahead and declare war right away. He can't send a trader to me, ever, then, so no +6 cavalry. He could invade me still, but that's what I have all those other bonuses for. It'll be his +8 from cavalry and a GG against my +20, so net +12 to Korea. Plus, he'll have a loooong march from his productive core cities to our frontier, and hopefully he'll have war weariness while I have the Colosseum. 

That's the worst case scenario, if and only if I end up next to the game's premier military civ and RB's premier Civ VI general (I think that's fair to say, yeah, guys? Who can match Archduke's experience in Civ VI warfare, or his dazzlingly successful campaign against suboptimal in PBEM6?). I'd also like a trader with Alhambram, too, of course. Hopefully my being a good neighbor, Archduke's scariness, the difficulty in attacking me, and the difficulty coordinating dogpiles in no-diplomacy will keep me safe. 

Archduke is helping me out on that front. I think I've decided that the best thing possible for me is for him to conquer Emperor outright. He'll get a lot of land, sure, but land isn't the limiting factor, as I've found out - it's the cost of settlers. By the time he finally manages to get settlers out to exploit all that land, the game will be practically in the Renaissance or Industrial eras. In the meantime, he'll have managed to alarm his neighbors Japper and Rowain, which should push Japper closer into my camp - why pick a fight with the friendly Koreans, defended by their religion, when you have Genghis Khan and his whole army lurking on your border? - and he'll look like the big bad scary guy of the game, which should draw some heat away from me, I hope. I mean, it's certainly a good investment - for what he spent on his army, he gets two free cities, and whatever city states he wants to grab, too - but those cities are undeveloped and he'll be stretched thin to defend two players' worth of territory. When you throw in the nerfs to research rates from populations (districts matter more, now), and the fact that he has the same limited pool of governors as the rest of us, and I don't think overrunning another player, particularly one this early, is quite the game-winning move that it was when Sullla did it to Archduke a year ago. 
...

Yeah, PBEM1 was on a tiny map. Sullla took Archduke's cities, not his expansion land. Then he just continued to roll over the other players. I not sure there was actually even anywhere left to settle in the entire world by the time Archduke was out. So far, access to land to expand hasn't seemed decisive. The thing about timing attacks and why Sullla likes them is that you can stay relatively builder-y, encouraging your neighbors to also do builder things. Then you can suddenly swap to war mode and take their assets. It's getting the cities without having to pay for the settler cost, the builder cost to improve the tiles, and the already built districts that makes conquering cities a great thing. Especially since it's likely everyone else has just as much space as you do here, and can peacefully run up their settler cost pretty high already. So basically, I think you're probably right that if Archduke eliminates Emperor, then stops to consolidate, that it's not really that bad for you and the other players will possibly be more paranoid about their possibly aggressive neighbor. But high yields and nifty wonders are also a big warning signal and nobody will want to go fight Archduke and let you peacefully build further into the lead.

The only thing I can think of here is that Archduke is just not going to stop doing military. He could take these two cities and take out a player and never really attempt to do anything but unlock enough military to stay ahead and enough money to keep his army afloat and just keep marching on the next player. He probably has the tactical ability to defend his flank against Rowain while attacking Japper, which could leave you bordering Genghis when the medieval era rolls around and his unique unit arrives. I'm not sure if it works with the greater need to fit campuses in to stay competitive in science.

You're right, I do have to think about an attack on Japper. However, I don't think Archduke can push too successfully right away. He'll certainly need to pause and consolidate. 

Let's assume, for sake of argument, that Archduke is following his pattern and the Georgian/Mongolian war is an all-out attempt on the part of Mongolia to make like Billy T. Sherman. How could he do it? I know his techs and civics. He can't push with warriors (well, he COULD, but I don't think it'd be too successful). He doesn't have swords yet, and he'd only just now be finishing up HBR research. Archers are possible, but very risky against a human player - too slow, too easy to neutralize with walls. I think the only unit that makes sense that he's rushing with are Heavy Chariots. Normally they're not great, but his get +3 for being heavy cavalry, and he gets +6 if he sent his trader to Emperor K first. That's 31 or 37 strength against warriors - as good or better than a horseman push. 

But then he has to push on Japper? That's a very long ride on this map - note that Rowain STILL hasn't crossed the waste to make contact with us, and it took a long time for Emperor K's scout (need to check on the time, but it was right around 50 turns). By the time he arrives, Japper will have Masonry teched, he should be able to see it coming a mile off, and archers and s pearmen can see off a heavy chariot army handily. Worst-case, he totally overruns Japper somehow - then I throw up walls around I Blame The Parents and have my own archers ready, plus I can upgrade to swords by that time. Nah, I can't see him trying to just steamroll the map like in PBEM VI - he only had to beat two players on a smaller map in that game, this time he'd have to beat 3 and go much further to do it. 

I think Archduke will pause and consolidate after taking Georgia. I'm not sure if he'll try to build out an army of horsemen then and go for Japper that way, with a bit of a longer lifespan (44 strength horsemen - horsemen with the strength of legions! Yikes), or if he'll try to...uh...turtle on his land advantage? Nah, he won't do that. After Emperor is done, he's going for either Japper or Rowain next, with either a late Classical horseman army, or a medieval knight/keshig army. Overrunning another more developed neighbor at that point WILL be a problem for us. 

Dang it, aetryn, now I've talked myself into thinking I need to prepare for a showdown with the Khan sooner than I'd like. 

Hopefully Japper concludes that he wants to be best friends with me, though.

[aetryn]

You're right, I do have to think about an attack on Japper. However, I don't think Archduke can push too successfully right away. He'll certainly need to pause and consolidate. 

Let's assume, for sake of argument, that Archduke is following his pattern and the Georgian/Mongolian war is an all-out attempt on the part of Mongolia to make like Billy T. Sherman. How could he do it? I know his techs and civics. He can't push with warriors (well, he COULD, but I don't think it'd be too successful). He doesn't have swords yet, and he'd only just now be finishing up HBR research. Archers are possible, but very risky against a human player - too slow, too easy to neutralize with walls. I think the only unit that makes sense that he's rushing with are Heavy Chariots. Normally they're not great, but his get +3 for being heavy cavalry, and he gets +6 if he sent his trader to Emperor K first. That's 31 or 37 strength against warriors - as good or better than a horseman push. 

But then he has to push on Japper? That's a very long ride on this map - note that Rowain STILL hasn't crossed the waste to make contact with us, and it took a long time for Emperor K's scout (need to check on the time, but it was right around 50 turns). By the time he arrives, Japper will have Masonry teched, he should be able to see it coming a mile off, and archers and s pearmen can see off a heavy chariot army handily. Worst-case, he totally overruns Japper somehow - then I throw up walls around I Blame The Parents and have my own archers ready, plus I can upgrade to swords by that time. Nah, I can't see him trying to just steamroll the map like in PBEM VI - he only had to beat two players on a smaller map in that game, this time he'd have to beat 3 and go much further to do it. 

I think Archduke will pause and consolidate after taking Georgia. I'm not sure if he'll try to build out an army of horsemen then and go for Japper that way, with a bit of a longer lifespan (44 strength horsemen - horsemen with the strength of legions! Yikes), or if he'll try to...uh...turtle on his land advantage? Nah, he won't do that. After Emperor is done, he's going for either Japper or Rowain next, with either a late Classical horseman army, or a medieval knight/keshig army. Overrunning another more developed neighbor at that point WILL be a problem for us. 

Dang it, aetryn, now I've talked myself into thinking I need to prepare for a showdown with the Khan sooner than I'd like. 

Hopefully Japper concludes that he wants to be best friends with me, though.

I don't know that you need to start focusing on it. I'd just try to not get too greedy in builder mode. 2 wonders is great, but let's just make sure there's some military/defensive preparations going on when there are opportunities. The shorter the path to "war footing", especially where we can do it without hurting gold production too much, the more you will be able to handle Archduke, take advantage of Emergencies, get left alone/Allied by your neighbors, etc. Best of all is actions that benefit both - agoge chops often do something buildery with the overflow + leave you with a new unit. Limes chops are similar. Basically, just try to maintain as much flexibility as possible.

Are anti-cav units any good with the R&F changes (didn't they add a couple more upgraded versions of them)?

You're right that the map size is a barrier for Archduke, but it's also a problem for you if intervention becomes necessary. I think the worst case here is actually that he turns around and takes over Rowain after eliminating Emperor. Rowain's strong early, which means he will have more cities and more developed cities that are more appetizing to conquer. Alhambram would be the only one that could help defend - it's just too far for you to act effectively.  Could he pull off a horseman attack on Rowain? I don't know how good Rowain is at defending...

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I don't want to give the impression that I'm freaking out about it or bending all my energies that way - just that I think the Mongol problem is not going to go away for me - sooner or later the Archduke and I will clash, and probably sooner than I'd really like (when I'm a nice era ahead of him or something).

I'd rather he come after Japper than Rowain, for precisely the reason that I can't intervene in the event of a Sumerian war. Plus, if he leaves Rowain alone, ROwain is more likely to get frisky with Alhambram and that's gotta be good for me. I admittedly have no idea how Rowain is as a player - PBEM3 he rarely reported, and in PBEM9 he hasn't updated his thread since turn 1. The man is a sphinx.

There's one more anti-cav unit, the Pike and Shot. Pike & Shot I've only used in my Zulu game. They fill the spot between Pikemen and Anti-tank, and I think they're not terrible? I believe they don't get the penalty to melee units that most anti-cav gets. I didn't really notice in the Zulu game because all my units were armies anyway and the Pike and Shots were veteran upgraded Impis, which more than steamrolled the robots' units.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Turn 58

After a bit of a break while Japper was travelling, we're back! I forgot all the Colosseum micro I planned over the minibreak, but I wrote it all down so it'll come back to me. Let's get to the turn, eh?




As predicted, the settler finishes at JRTI and has a bit of a walk through rough terrain to reach Another Fine Product's planned location. This site will do a couple of things for us. Not only is it good on its own, but settling it will give us Antioch's first envoy, good for a bit of gold at the capital (until we kill the city state in about 10 turns, but whatever). We can build a galley later on to trigger the inspiration for Nan Madol, which will then just need one more envoy to add +2 culture from the city and any coastal districts I build. Not as strong as on other maps, and I won't be pursuing it with any strong focus, but nice to have. 

In the south, I scout with my settler and get visibility on Alhambram's plant, Chocoladem, but unaccountably I failed to take a screenshot. I'll show off the city next turn - I have visibility on all the tiles. 

Let's look at JRTI and make sure this chopping plan works. I think it should, but my math is always spotty and I forgot about half a dozen minor rules in every game of Civ I play. 




Seven turns to produce the 170 production needed. At 21 cogs per turn, we're still getting some significant overflow it feels like - we'll only get 147 native cogs in 7 turns, so we're picking up an extra 20ish cogs from overflow? It also cuts a turn from the plaza build time, which is only 5 turns. That's my next step after finishing the settler, so I can have Liang in place when I start cranking out builders. 

Let's look at the chop...




Magnus boosts what SHOULD be a 39 production chop into 78, which is then multiplied by 1.5 and added to native production, to dump 139 cogs into the 170 cog settler. Which means we should be almost exactly 21 cogs short at the start of next turn, so we finish the settler on turn 160. Nice! Magnus can be in place at OCISLY by turn 165, which slightly speeds up the timeline on settlers out of that place. I want to get But Who's Counting planted as soon as I can to cut off any Dutch encroachment in this direction (apart from Cholocadam, which I regard as falling within my natural sphere of influence. Alhambram! ). 

Did I calculate correctly?




Yup. Looks like the overflow was about 18 cogs - we were JUST short of finishing the last settler on turn 57. 

At Of Course I Still Love You, I swap back to my slinger. 




The reason for this is that the slinger will be obsoleted when I finish Archery next turn. If it's my active build, no worries - the game auto-upgrades in queue and I can finish off the loose production. I'm not going to, of course, because this archer is going to become an entertainment district soon (I should lock in a cheap seowon, though...Next turn. A few extra cogs because I'll have finished archery, oh well). If the slinger is NOT active, though, the saved production is lost, I've found. 28 cogs down the drain. 

Worst case, the slinger finishes first and then the tech processes, but I think tech fires before production. 

I have 4 slingers-  5 counting this one - and 3 warriors that can hit Antioch. Just need the ability to leave my northern city exposed to Japper via DoF and I'm good to go. Alhambram isn't ready for an offensive war, I don't think, and I have emergency builds to defend my cities if he tries an opportunistic strike. So we're about ready to start migrating towards Antioch. 




Terrain north of I Blame the Parents, apart from the diamonds, is nothing special. No Cree units in sight - fingers crossed we get this spot. This is a good border. City is founded T60, AFP on T63, and In One Ear I think also on 63. 

West of I Saw It First, the jungle is endless. 




6 chocolate resources in sight. I pin an aqueduct city (Gravitas? Nope, No Gravitas Here) for later. Could make a lot of gold from this spot. 

Score shows no major changes. Emperor K hasn't lost any cities and his military score is mostly stable. I wonder if it was just an opportunistic raid by the Archduke after all, to snipe a unit or send a message.






Don't be fooled by score - Emperor K is not as far behind as he looks. Most of the deficit is from Era scores. He's headed for a Dark Age at the moment unless he comes up with 3 more points in the next 3 turns.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

A few things I noted from score comparisons:

1)Japper and Alhambram's only change was 1 era point apiece. Ergo, Japper and Alhambram have contact. Must be a Cree unit out west of me, near that warrior.
2)Archduke gained 6 points - 3 from a civic, 3 from era score. He just finished Political Philosophy and took a government for 3 era points? Yeah, probably. He and Rowain have better culture than me. I'm middle of the pack there.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I take back what I said about Emperor K not losing any cities. 






Guess it wasn't just a minor skirmish after all.