Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I don't know if it works or not - I've never tried! Not played with Sea Dogs much, I teched too fast in SP to use them.

Task force sounds good. I'll go with that. Maybe capital F fleets, too.

First Fleet is in the Mediterranean Sea facing Rome. Second Fleet is in the southern ocean twiddling its thumbs until I can upgrade them and send them on an adventure. TF 1.1 is the caravels, 1.2 is the frigates, etc.

[Woden]

Still not much going on. Here are a few more turns...

Nubia-Turn 139
Finshed Enlightenment (no screenshot). I finsihed all my walls chops and one settler finished this turn and another will finish next turn, so time for a policy swap...

Swapped out Colonization for the all important Rationalism and switched out Limes for Meritocracy for the time being. When we go to war, I will go for the war policies of Bastions and War of Religion. This will remove Feudal Contracts and boosted unit production but I need to continue with Conscription for reduced maintenance costs. I will still continue building Field Guns, as I still get +50% to ranged units with my Civ's ability and their boost card isn't unlocked until Nationalism anyways. This will mean I won't be able to build Muskets with a production boost but figure Field Guns will be better at defense than Muskets. 

Anyways, I was able to convert Ptah to Khmer's religion last turn and bought a library. This turn I buy a university...

God of the Harvest rocks! Add Valletta and Jesuit Education and I can develop my cities fast. The Enlightenmnet gave me the boost to Scientific Method and I believe CMF finisihed something but didn't get a screenshoot of either. I did put a 2nd fort down and got...

I will switch off this next turn and finish Military Science first (on T144), then finish Ballistics on T145.. This will correspond with finishing Mercantilism on T144 to switch to Professional Army for upgrades and Exploration on T145 to switch to military cards and be ready for war on T146. 

Nubia-Turn 140
Boring turn. Not much to report. In fact I only have 1 screenshot from this turn. Here is the west...

Settler finishes at Ma'at and I start a temple to get an Apostle out. Builder also finishes at Hothor and I start a crossbow. Builder will go strip the cows and then move clockwise around striping all the wood into units. I am really stripping the land around these cities. If they are going to fall to Rome/China, I really don't want them to be any good for them. 

You will notice in the northeast, my first set of horsemen are starting to arrive. There are 3 up by England's western-most cities and 3 more 1 turn behind and then there will be a few more behind them, and so forther and so on. I am starting to few pretty good about our odds to hold the line here, especially with CMF's massive navy. 

Nubia-Turn 141

Still chugging away. Here is my core... 

And my western holdings...

Not much going on. Units are moving to the west. 

CMF, I hoped you moved your crossbow off the forested hill, I left you a sign. You will want to make sure to not block my chopping builder up by Hothor. It will chop all the wood in that city moving west to east and he can't be delayed otherwise he could get captured by Rome/China. 

I will get a good review/planning turn report sometime during the next few turns but do have another busy work week in coming.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I saw the pin, Woden, and moved the unit - good thing you did, 'coz I didn't see your message til just now. 

Turn 141




I finish the enlightenment and head for mobilization - the ability to form fleets will be a key way to counter Roman tech advantage. Frigate fleets backed by a GA match Battleships in strength, I can build Frigates with Press Gangs while Sullla will have no production-boosting cards, and the VA lets me build Frigate fleets for the cost of a single frigate. If Sullla doesn't tech up to battleships by turn 150 or so, then I can beat him in a toe-to-toe fight. Hence, mobilization. 

In the south, my two Sea Dogs arrive, ready to try and take a ship:




I lead the way with a Caravel to soften the bad guy up. In retrospect, I should have fired with a sea dog first, THEN the caravel, then finished with a final sea dog attack. Oh, well, it's just a few more points of damage on the Caravel. 

Unfortunately...




It seems rho was right, or I was unlucky. Probably it doesn't work on barbarians because Firaxis hates creativity other than stupid chopping minigames. Humbug. 

Anyway, I am finalizing strategy and deployments for the coming war. First, I assemble one task force (dubbed TF 12) around Nan Madol:




I don't intend to actually engage Sullla with these units, these are just so he THINKS he knows where my fleet is. I don't think he glimpsed the Armada or Fleet, so their absence shouldn't be noted. My caravel fleet is here, as is one of my GAs, so hopefully Sullla thinks this is the bulk of my force. However, in reality, most of First Fleet is deployed to the north...




My ships can move 7 tiles per turn. I counted 6 tiles (to leave a movement point to bombard with) and set that as the point to assemble on turn 145. I intend to move most of my fleet even further north over the next 3 turns, hopefully staying out of view. I can only attack Genova with a few units to start, so I need ot hit it as hard as I can, as quickly as i can. I haven't done the math, the combat formula I don't really understand. But a 72-strength armada hitting a 56 strength city should do a lot of damage. I want to wipe out the defenses and have a caravel ready to move in and capture by hopefully turn 146. That's my goal. 

Woden, there's a good chance I'll be in Jekyll island for these turns. :D So you get to be the admiral in command. I've been pretty clear on my strategy, though - press the attack and burn that city at all costs. If Genova falls, then my own western cities can outbuild Sullla's harbors (helpfully labelled for burning on this map) and we hold the sea. If we hold the sea, it becomes very difficult for Rome to press on in this direction - he can fight in Khmer, maybe even win, but he can't take the core. So, don't worry about losses - go right at 'em.

One embarrassing weakness I haven't mentioned: There will only be 4 caravels in the entire ocean for this attack. I've been focusing on Frigates. Lepanto is churning them out as quick as it can, but the city only has a few chops. So make sure you keep back one at least for city-taking purposes. 

The southern ocean is mine:




There's a Roman caravel somewhere in it, not sure where he slipped off to. I should be able to run him down with my +2 movement compared to his. I want to stalk him with Sea Dogs and take him early in the war, if I can. 

Saving money for upgrades. I need 1875 gold to upgrade these ships, so I'm about 1500 short and running out of crabs. It'll be about 10 more turns when the last crabs are factored in, so a turn 150 date for upgrades here. 

FInal look at the north:




Core is building ships and traders.

[oledavy]

[suboptimal]

I believe barbarians cannot be captured. However, if your unit does have a chance to capture it will show up in the combat stats box with all of the other bonuses when you hover over the target. If there's no percentage listed then the unit cannot be captured. My experience with the Aztecs in my PBEM 10 test games is that a unit must also be in the red (under 40hp, I believe) in order to have a capture chance.

Capture chances vary roughly linearly and is based upon the base combat strength of the units (no promotions, no terrain modifiers, etc). For equal strength units it's 50/50 and it goes up or down from there between -20 and +20 strengths. If the unit is stronger than yours by more than 20 it cannot be captured. I believe Victoria over at CFC did this analysis for Sea Dogs but it applies equally to other capture mechanics.

[timmy827]

Thanks for the planning updates, prepping for next weekend
Yes, here is the sea dogs thread including no capturing barbs.  
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/s...t-14880673

And unfortunately, believe that the current patch broke creating fleets at nationalism (for non-expansion games).  
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/n...sm.630068/

EDIT: actually a question too for CMF - Woden outlined getting tech for field guns and cavs just before the DoF runs out. What are you teching after industrialization finishes?

[Woden]

A little more detail than the last few reports.

Nubia-Turn 142
We will start the turn off in the west...

I was able to chop the temple at Ma'at to completion with a jungle chop. I started a crossbow and will be chopping units from here on out. I forest chopped a crossbow at Kurgus into a builder, that will complete next turn. First 3 horsemen reach my cities and the next 2 has reached England's western border. These five will probably all I will be able to afford to upgrade if I want to upgrade all of my crossbows to field cannons. The other 7-9 horsemen will wait in the back lines to upgrade when I have the gold. Five of which are making their way through CMF's lands...

I am also shipping my catapults over to the western front just in case I am lucky enough to go on the offensive. Doubtful but maybe? Maybe able to upgrade them to artillery once I have Steel. 

With the temple finished at Ma'at, time to start getting my defensive plans in action...

I buy the apostle to start an inquisition going and get inquisitors in my front line cities. I don't want China to benefit from Crusade and have the advantage over my units. I also bought a missionary a few turns back and increased the followers in each city. I should have a few turns before they convert if he tries and should be able to get the religion removed unless he sends a swarm of missionaries/apostles at me. On the plus side, if he does that it means he is not spending faith on units. 

Here is my core...

Horsemen and crossbows at most places that matter. The crossbows at Horus and Thoth will be chopped into an industrial zone and harbor, respectively. Both will be discounted and I should get some good overflow into something else. These will probably be the last of this generation of units completed, except at Amon which can probably 2 turn crossbow. Most of these crossbows will go to my coastal cities to defend against any naval invasion. I will continue with Field Cannons once Ballistics is finished. I won't have space for a production booster, so I will rely on my +50% to natural production to ranged units until I can feel comfortable to swap out of Bastions or War of Religion. 

Here are my units... 

I figure I will add at least 1 more horseman and hopefully 9 or 10 more crossbows before I start upgrading. I currently have 1,164 and am making 108.8 per turn, which will increase with Triangle Trade next turn, so should have roughly 1,600-1,700 on T145 for upgrades plus 3 harvests at ~250 each. We will say ~2400 for upgrades. Maybe enough for 6 Calvary upgrades and 11 or 12 field cannons. Should be enough to hold off a major strike for a few turns while I get more units on the field. This war is going to be more like mine with Cornflakes than Sulla's with Japper. And with 1UPT, it should be enough for a draw out engagement. We will see. One thing I am still chewing on is if I want to make a corps with a Calvary using El Cid. He is a Medieval GG and will support my older units but not Field Cannons and Calvary. Do I use him for a better unit that will probably get a focus attack or do I keep him around to boost my muskets and knights. Probably the latter, as I do have a few knights and muskets in the area. Same with Sun Tzu, to boost my remaining crossbows just in case.

A couple of last notes. Here is CMF's western fleet...

One thing I think we dropped the ball on is going after Lisbon right about now. I am pretty sure Rome and China are using them like oledavy did in PBEM4 for their massive gold income and I will lose their income when war does come. This is about teh right time to raze the but I think being in position to take the canal city is more important. CMF, if you think you have the units to peel off a few to raze Lisbon, I would highly recommend. At least think about going after Lisbon once you take out the canal city. The time has come where Lisbon will no longer be useful to us. 

Lastly, here is around Nan Madol..

This looks like it is going to be one hell of a fight. Let's hope we come out on top. Good job CMF on getting a decent fleet put together for the upcoming battle. I am looking forward to it. We will probably know in a coupe weeks if this game is going to be over soon or if it will drag on all summer. This week end will be exciting. Hopefully I don't screw up your turns.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I don't have time for a full report, but I haven't forgotten about Lisbon, Woden. 

It's been on the backburner because I was unwilling to detail the forces needed to take it. I didn't upgrade frigates until recently, because Quads are cheap to make and cheaper to maintain, so waiting until I literally had built all teh quads I could afford to upgrade was the right move to maximize my fleet in the west. Once frigates came out, I didn't have time to strike for Lisbon, because I refuse to split my fleet more than I already have. 

Right now, I have a diversionary fleet near Nan Madol. The goal is to fix Sullla's attention there and think that I'm preparing for an all-out fight for the city. The main fleet, with the real striking power, is now holding near the northern ice cap. I've pinned destinations for each turn, dropping me at the jump-off point on turn 145 and then going hell-for-leather for Genova on turn 146. Also on turn 145, the diversionary fleet will pull back out of range of Sullla (but only just - I still want the option to strike him first if I can, before those frigates turn into battleships), because it's essential to gain first strike. I should be able to, given my +2 movement (+3 with an admiral), and the more frigates I destroy then, the fewer battleships. 

If we take Genova, the next goal is to beat the fleet Sullla will have trapped in these waters. Once we've won that battle, I can detail about 4 frigates and a caravel or two to go for the city, while the survivors of my fleet pillage and burn Sullla's shipbuilding in these waters. 

Obviously this all goes out the window if Genova stands, or if Sullla's fleet wins the battle. I'm not at all sure what his strength in these waters is - I think close to my own, only he's got ironclads against my caravels.

If you want, though, I have 3 frigates and a caravel that could probably start that way now. They could be on the city in 3 turns, so we could hit their city state right at the start of the war. 

Timmy, good question. Right now, I'm going for Steam Power. I can get that in 12 turns, which is horrible but better than STeel. Steel is, um, 60 turns away. <_< Yeah. That's how bad my science situation is. I'd go on about how "don't try to do what I did and run a science economy on trade routes alone," but we've been over that. Lesson learned for next game. 

And honestly, I've done okay against the Archduke and Singaboy so far. I'd pit my civ against theirs in a one on one any day. It's just Sullla who's thorougly trounced me in the economics department, and I make no apologies for not matching him in my only multiplayer game of Civ ever.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Turn 143




So yeah, I finish Industrialization this turn. Woo, all my mines are boosted, and no doubt I can plant more on any of my coal!

...oh. Right. I don't have any. ;_; 

But check this out:




Luck be a lady, and she certainly be not on my side this game. -sigh- Whaddayagonna do. Rome has more coal on another canal city further north. Archduke also has 3 sources of coal in or near his borders, while Woden and I have exactly 1 in our entire combined empires. Like, maybe the idea was to put most of the coal near the continental borders, so teams would fight for them? Except...I totally conquered my isthmus, Woden and I have extensively settled both sides, and...nuthin'. 

Anyway, after Industrialization, I can really only go for Steam Power in any sort of realistic timeframe - 12 turns to finish. Steel needs me to finish, uh, Castles, Printing, Siege Tactics, Metal Casting, Ballistics, Military Science, Rifling, and then Steel itself. I have nothing on the bottom half of the tech tree, basically. I've had half of Sullla's science rate since turn 70 or so. :/ Again, in my defense, if I'd chopped into campuses and commercial hubs as originally planned, I'd have science near Singaboy's right now. But...those won't pay off in the realistic time horizon of the game. To put it in Civ IV terms (which I have never played, btw), I'm whipping my civ in the ground to make a more effective stand now, 'coz if we're going down at least we're going down swingin'. 

Speaking of swings, I carefully maneuver the Genova fleet back:




Plan is to mill around up here for 2 turns, then on turn 145 we reach our jump-off - carefully staying OUT of sight of Sullla's borders. Then, on Turn 146, the turn we can declare war, I can rush for Genova with my 3 best units. I need to knock out the defenses and prevent any ships from exiting. It's possible Sullla has frigates sheltering in those waters, but I'm hoping he'll concentrate most of his fleet down opposite Nan Madol, where the "main" English fleet is located. I do have spare frigates who will lead the way, and I can blast aside a few units. 

If he has units there instead, well, then we forgo surprise and we blast as many ships as we can. Maybe we can fight our way into the city. 

I'm not at all sure who gets first strike. I sent the DoF on turn 114, Sullla accepted on turn 115. That means it should expire on his turn 145, letting Woden declare war on his turn. But maybe Sullla can declare war on his turn. So, there's a sweet spot of positioning: I need to be at least 5 tiles away from Sullla's ships to avoid letting him have first strike, while staying within 7 tiles myself so I can strike first on my own turn if possible. That's where I'll try and place the decoy fleet. 

As for the decoy's tactics on turn 145-146, losing the fleet is not acceptable. They're not sacrificial lambs. I think on turn 145, I'll try and hover just out of range, then on turn 146 we sprint north to join the Genova attack. That concentrates my entire fleet off Genova cape, letting me respond if Sullla comes north with his own vessels. Ideally, we raze the city and then fight it out with him right there, winning and releasing my survivors to pillage harbors (no more new ships) and raze Lisbon, Kinsasha, etc. The Chinese canal city will stay, for now - Singaboy can't build too much out of there, so we'll bomb it down, but not occupy it yet. 

More likely we'll just lose the first battle and all of this will be irrelevant. :

At Lepanto I start harvesting:




This kicks out more Caravels. Melee units are key, but after some thought I queue up a Sea Dog here instead. With Midway, I'll have 4 completing soon, so one more round will give me 8. That will let me seize Roman ships and even the odds a bit, plus i can raid Sullla's coast. The 5 strength penalty sucks, but stealth hopefully compensates. One Sea Dog will become an armada, capable of capturing even battleships! > 

The final set up at sea:




Sullla had visibility on a few of my units at the jump-off on his turn, so I have a few stragglers between there and Nan Madol to maybe fool him that they went that-a-way. I really have no idea how many ships I'm facing. By the time war breaks out I'll have 4 caravels, 24 frigates, and 4 Sea Dogs, with another wave of 4 frigates and 4 sea dogs shortly finishing. Hopefully it'll be enough. It'll have to be.

[Cornflakes]

Finally skimmed through your whole thread. Sorry about the coal thought we had all the resources covered but that was a genuine oversight, not some evil plan to mock you from the lurker thread ... tough luck on the lack of canal-lakes on the land bridge too! The geography is pretty much un-touched from the way it rolled. I considered adding a lake there but decided to just let it stand as rolled. You weren't the only one with poor geography though:

Turn 68 

Cornflakes can't complain, since he made the map, but man, this sucks for Khmer. There are three rivers on the main continent: One in Japper's territory, one in the tundra, and one tiny one by his capital. His Holy Sites will almost never get the boost. The only fresh water in sight is the little lake by Nan Madol, near where I pinned Midway early in the game, and the lakes by Rome, where Kongo is already settling. Compare our fresh lakes at Aboukir and Salamis, the massive Lake Malta, and Woden's half-dozen tiny lakes in the east. Plus, we've got some good rivers to make use of. Our continent is much better on the whole, I think. 

I definitely felt the lack of fresh water at Khmer's start. In fact, I think Khmer's prospects for 2nd cities are a solid tier below any of the other starts.

Good luck in the upcoming battle!