I forgot one thing, I was going to snipe the Great Scientist from Sullla this turn, as he was going to beat me to it by 1 turn (turn order thing) but he bought it this turn and wasted some gold on it. He might have had enough faith since he has been running Triangle Trade, IDK, but he still beat me to it because he plays before me.
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Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread
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You've got a duplicate pic of the navy at the end of your report.
Good luck with the next few turns!  One request - with a tactical situation this complex don't rush into the turn - take your time and don't worry about pydt...
Completed: RB Demogame - Gillette, PBEM46, Pitboss 13, Pitboss 18, Pitboss 30, Pitboss 31, Pitboss 38, Pitboss 42, Pitboss 46, Pitboss 52 (Pindicator's game), Pitboss 57
In progress: Rimworld 
I figured I would post England's turn first since that was where all the action was.
England-Turn 146 Start the turn off with a bunch of notification and...  Also got a notification that 10 units were killed...Ouch! Took a screenshot but it didn't take. For my return fire, let's start in the east by England's coast, where a Roman frigate and ironclad are sitting...  I hit the frigate once with an English frigate and then a seadog with 62% change of capture. I do end up getting a redlined frigate. It takes everything else over here to take out the ironclad...  Only 25% chance of capture, which didn't happen. I chop out a pair of frigates at Jutland, so I will have 8 friagtes and 2 seadogs to sail towards Rome's fleet next turn. I do need to kill the scout by Lepanto but needed everything this turn to kill the ironclad. Over west, CMF suffered major losses. This is where I had to think about what to do. The plan was to go and raze Genova but do I want to get trapped in the bay and have Sullla pick off England's ships or do I want to go for a war of attrition and try to take out as much as I can? Well...  I do decide to stick with the plan for a few reasons: Rome has to be close to Steel and Urban Defenses. I just hope he doesn't complete it next turn and the city magically gets 200HP walls after I removed them this turn. And second, I need to limit the number of ships he can bring to this northern sea if I want a chance to beat him. England took a major blow this turn but if I can get more built or captured, I might have a chance. So, next I pillage his harbor at Firenze...  It may only take a few turns to repair but it will delay any ships in production right now. I then start on a couple of frigates and take them out...  I was only able to respond by killing 3 frigates and an ironclad but I did capture 1 frigate and Genova will fall next turn. I don't think there is much Sullla can do to prevent it. He probably will be able to get another settler out fairly soon to replace the city but it might be enough time to get more boats out and get the advantage in the northern sea. Finally, I do kill a Chinese knight in the with the frigates and seadogs. Let's hope the next turn doesn't hurt so much. I am expecting to have lost the western fleet with the exception of the units by Genova but I should be able to chop a few more boats out too.
I have no idea how things went after turn 146, but I have a few guesses based on the org thread and my own instincts. There's a lot to talk about in turn 146, and I'm not sure I have the time to do it all justice!
First, I want to emphasize that Woden was in a really, really tough situation. Put yourself in his shoes - you get dropped on literally turn 1 into one of the biggest naval wars in Civ VI multiplayer. You have one concrete instruction ("Raze Genova," I now regret appending the at-all-costs modifier to it as I think we DID go full Battle of Manticore), and to make matters worse thanks to a really dumb mistake by your partner (more on that in a second), you have enemy fleets already all up in your business. Tactically, strategically, psychologically, grammatically, that's a hugely difficult spot to be put under. Woden, I appreciate it immensely, and I have no complaints about the choices you made in that situation. Second, let's talk about my assumptions going into the war. My operating strategy, if I recall it correctly, was to knock out Genova with an alpha strike at the start of the war, neatly cutting off most Roman reinforcements from reaching the northern sea until Sullla could train and march another settler, which should buy enough time to turn, meet his fleet under hopefully favorable circumstances, and win the battle for the ocean. Roughly, this was the scenario I was hoping for: Turn 146: Rome declares war, either steams east to confront the decoy fleet or cautiously probes local waters while staying concentrated around Nan Madol until Sullla could upgrade to battleships. England launches the first attack on Genova. The rest of the fleet maneuvers to launch a first strike on Roman reinforcements. Turn 147: Rome steams for Genova, but doesn't have enough movement to interfere, and most of the English fleet is capable of setting up to intercept. Alternatively, Rome abandons the city and steams for the English coast (this was my biggest fear). England razes Genova, finishes uniting the fleet, and continues maneuvering for a first strike. Turn 148+ With Genova razed, the two fleets contend on roughly equal terms - each of us has ~4 cities to build ships from, and the VA+GA+GL combo tips thinks England's way even in the face of Roman promotions (the TC army was a great play by Sullla) and tech advantage. That didn't happen, obviously. Third, let's talk about the most decisive issue: The Roman first strike was far more severe than even my worst case scenario. How did that happen? Well, a couple of things. 1)I was counting on stealth to mostly preserve the fleet. Unfortunately, I had fantastically bad luck and not only did Sullla stumble upon the scout Sea Dogs keeping an eye on things, he discovered the main body with most of his fleet still ready to move and launch an all-out assault. This totally invalidated what I was hoping for on the first turn, but I didn't entirely plan on stealth... 2)If Rome did find the fleet, I had positioned myself so that if he steamed straight at me, only his front rank ships could reach me, while the rest would be unable to support. He'd injure or kill 2-3 frigates on the front lines, and then my counterattack could drop on his fleet like a sledgehammer. Unnnnfortunately I made one enormous blunder. This is probably the most important mistake of the game, guys, so I'll set it apart here: I have no idea how far each generation of ships can move. I could have looked it up, but the wiki is often wrong, and besides, I was lazy and had an easier method. To calculate Rome's movement, I took my own ships, and subtracted 3 move points: 1 for the Royal Navy Dockyard, 1 for the Great Lighthouse, and 1 for the Great Admiral. My own ships could move 7 tiles with all those advantages, so Rome could only move 4, right? Ha! Wrong. See, Great Admiral move points are not added to the total move pool, I don't think. So when I set up just within the outer edge of Rome's range, I actually was well within range for him to sail up and smash me, because he's got 5 move points, not 4. Ouch. As a result, my fleet got smacked around a lot. 4)Should we have continued to go for Genova? Well, eyeballing it, it looks like Woden took the city, but at the expense of the fleet. I'm hoping he was able to draw some blood from Sullla's main force first. Was that the right call? The ultimate goal of razing Genova was to hit the Roman fleet and ensure it couldn't be replaced. The idea was we'd hit it unopposed, then be able to pivot and bring the full weight of our ships to bear on the Roman navy. However, Sullla's luck in finding my fleet, coupled with my own idiocy giving him a solid first strike, invalidated a lot of my planning for the war. I think, finding myself in the situation Woden did at the start of 146, I might have concentrated all my efforts on the Roman fleet first and Genova second. The armadas and fleets would hit very hard, and I think I still had enough ships to seriously maul the Roman fleet, while Decoy Force steamed to join me. It might even have been worth ignoring the ironclad - those bastards can take a beating - to get there, but it's also hard to criticize Woden opting to sink a potential threat and scout (seriously, information is so important in naval warfare. DAMN the luck that got my Sea Dogs found, why did Sullla even sail that direction? Two sea dogs would have made a great difference on turn 146 to Woden). However, Woden's decision is entirely defensible as well. First, I told him to go for Genova, so any blame for focusing on it over the Roman fleet falls on me, not him. I didn't leave clear enough instructions for what to do if the Romans did something unexpected, and that's my fault, since I knew I was leaving. I should have given him more flexibility. Second, we have Steel to worry about. It's quite possible that we'd beat the Roman fleet, only to lose most of our own, and for the survivors to find that Genova is too difficult a nut to crack with Steel defenses and battleships in the canal. We'd then get overwhelemed and beaten anyway. So those are my quick, rough impressions of the turn from Woden's report. It looks as though we won a psychological victory, however - our endless waves of ships burned out Sullla and Singaboy! In my personal opinion, Rome/China have this game all but won. In time, they will slug through my chopped-out navy as I run out of resources to chop, war weariness will drag my economy down, and of course I freely gave up on science and culture 20 turns ago to focus on fielding the biggest, baddest navy I could. long-term, there's no way they don't grind me down and start razing cities, and they'll come after Woden with tanks and infantry to crush field cannons and cavalry soon - or they could. And if nothing else, they could go full turtle and space-race victory. Stalemated wars can favor both sides. I guess there's also Germany to consider. They need to beat Woden and I by turn 165 or so to avoid a dogpile, and it's looking like that's not happening? I'm not sure how the later turns of the war went, but Woden apparently put up a stout defense! Well done, Woden! Anyway, there's no way Woden and I win this game, so yeah, by all means, I say we take the draw.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
I should have time tonight or tomorrow to write things up for you, CMF. Basically, you fleet was gutted with the first strike by Rome and has been taking heavy loses since. I have sank a few ships and kept producing more ships. I also have been upgrading your southern fleet and started sailing them around the southern coast of Khmer/Kongo. In hindsight, I probably should have sailed them around Russia/Germany for the wonder promotion but forgot about the wonder until last turn. It will be a few more turns until you have enough ships rallied to launch an attack on Rome's southern shores.
I think the frustration from Sullla/Singaboy is from that fact that England's MP has not been dropping that much due to new ships and upgrades. I did make a few fleets last turn but wanted to keep most of them for you to decide on. I my opinion, I think Germany/Russia are probably in the better position to win than Rome/China. I think most of China's units are over by the Khmer/Kongo front and Russia has a bunch of Cossacks stacked by their border with China. The land is narrow there but with the ability to move after attacking, the Cossacks should be able to chew through China fairly quick. Attached is the last turn I played for England. It is at the start of the turn, so you won't have the current moves but will give you an option to look at the state of the game. I did sink the 2-promoted battleship in the northern sea.
I think this is important enough info to share now, since another lurker agreed as well.
Thanks to a UI bug, Sullla knew where the Sea Dogs were. Before declaring war, the interface grayed out their tiles as illegal movement destinations when a ship was selected. After declaring war, that didn't happen; but the Sea Dog locations could still be inferred because the +2 strength support bonus showed up on ships adjacent to them. ![[Image: c4jt321.png]](https://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png)
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here
A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about. |
