Quick question, we can accept tech trades, just not initiate them, right? Gilgamesh is offering IW + 40 gold for Alphabet.
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It's Clobberin' Time! Raging Barbs Highlands Tokugawa on Monarch
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May 24th, 2018, 16:01
(This post was last modified: May 24th, 2018, 16:01 by haphazard1.)
Tech trading is whatever we feel like doing as a team. Maybe limit them only to peace/war deals? Or it could be only what AIs offer, take them or leave them without modification? I am OK with whatever people want to do.
As for the proposed deal, if we are doing deals then I would take it. Mansa and Julius already know Alpha, so getting IW and some gold is pretty decent.
I've never really explored tech trading. My understanding is that if you know what you are doing you can exploit the AI quite badly. But accepting trades we're offered probably doesn't get into that territory. Hey, part of the game was to help get RFS-81 used to Civ IV - I'm happy to make it his call.
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
(May 24th, 2018, 15:36)shallow_thought Wrote:(May 24th, 2018, 15:00)RFS-81 Wrote:Quote:Also, I realize now that the library in Cholo is a mistake: that's a production city. I think we finish the library, but have it build a barracks and a stable and then build wealth or research when it doesn't need to do anything else (build units) It was my mistake. I did it by default, I think. (May 24th, 2018, 15:54)RFS-81 Wrote: Quick question, we can accept tech trades, just not initiate them, right? Gilgamesh is offering IW + 40 gold for Alphabet. Our variant is: Variant Rules We can pay tribute demands but we cannot ask for technology or propose tech trades. So you can accept that IW + 40g deal for alpha. That is a bit of a haircut: 296B +40 gold for 444 beakers -- but for us, 40 gold is what, 63 - 80ish beakers (1/2 tearn of research). So that's 350beakers for 444 beakers. Do it if you like it!
It depends on what you mean by exploit. It is not really possible to never research anything yourself in Civ IV and obtain almost all techs via trade, which could be an actual strategy in some earlier Civ games. But if you understand how the Civ IV AI looks at trade deals, it is possible to do a lot of bargaining and effectively hugely multiply your overall tech rate by dealing the same techs to multiple trading partners, getting different techs from each.
There are some limits built into the system, but again if you understand how the AI looks at tech deals it is possible (with effort) to work around the limits. It is not cost free to do so; you have to arrange your diplomatic efforts in certain ways to keep the tech trades flowing. And you can not be too far behind in overall tech; it you do not have at least occasional superiority via bee-lining or bulbing, you can get shut out of the tech trading market completely. But on the whole unlimited tech trading helps the human player, compared to the AIs. This is one of the reasons Always War is such a difficult variant: the human player is shut out of tech trading while the AIs do (usually) get to trade techs. This may have been the thought behind us voluntarily not trading techs; it sort of simulates one of the big effects of Always War without actually having the eternal conflict part. Also, it fits with the Toku personality of being isolationist. It is possible to get him to trade techs in a normal game, but it takes a significant and sustained siplomatic effort.
Ah, I see I crossposted with Zalson.
 I agree with his analysis of the proposed deal. It favors Gilgamesh somewhat, but that is about as good a tech trade as you will generally see in Civ IV. We are trading him a non-monopoly tech already known by other AIs, and are getting back roughly 75% of the value. Pretty good, actually, as the Civ IV AI will generally demand a good margin of profit (for them) in order to do a deal.
Turns played! I accepted the deal, by the way. This turnset turned out a bit messy. I planted two cities (one with a settler pre-built by Zalson), crashed our economy (it's recovering), and lost a couple of improvements to barbs, but no workers (no units at all, in fact), so that's progress! Also, I forgot to stop and accidentally made a few moves before saving, sorry about that!
I'll report a bit later.
"Messy" -- uh oh.
 I believe I am up next, but will wait for RFS-81's report and some team discussion before doing anything.
Sorry, but I won't get this done tonight. Feel free to look around the save and ask questions in the meantime, or maybe play.
Main points: - barbs making trouble near Landstalker and Cholo - whipped an axe at Landstalker because I worried too much - that was a mistake - the capital was bumping into the happy cap, so I whipped a settler and overflowed into the monastery - two new cities, one near the silk - a builder is building a road to the Roman empire - got CoL - markets and courthouses need to be chopped out to fix our economy |
