Turns played, full report could as be as much as another day behind. Let me know if people want the save posted before that.
I didn't switch to Bureau - definitely not worth it short term. Other than that, barbs, threats from Jules, more barbs, me moving axes out of position at bad times . I think the kill ratio was in excess of 10-1, but that 1 hurt. And we may be about to lose our silks for the second time in 6t .
We have Construction though! At the start of the last turn I gave in to a demand from Julius to stop trading with Mansa (they are now at peace). So we should be safe for 10t.
And yep, spies are slow. But we can't get anything else up there yet to take a look, so...
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
Construction is good to have, if we are planning war. (And we certainly seem to be. ). It is nice to have bridges also, and not get stuck with movement penalties across rivers any more.
It sounds like bureaucracy would benefit us somewhat; don't forget to factor in the inflation cost on top of the increased civic cost. But would it be enough to be worth the anarchy for switching? Bit of a judgement call, unless we want to also switch some other civics anyway. OR is a possibility, but we would need to adopt a religion first and have it in enough cities to make a difference. Once we reach Feudalism we might want vassalage for the unit support and extra XP, but that is a question for the future.
If you want to post the save, that'd be great. I'll take a look to plan my set but won't play until you give the report.
I think Bureaucracy is 100% worth it at this point. We make 230 beakers per turn: Bureaucracy is worth that in about 8 to 9 turns. We remake the hammers in about the same time period for that too.
I'll try to stake our claim a bit in the southwest on my set but, other than that, it'll be whole hog to catapults to take out Huyana.
(May 28th, 2018, 12:09)Zalson Wrote: If you want to post the save, that'd be great. I'll take a look to plan my set but won't play until you give the report.
I think Bureaucracy is 100% worth it at this point. We make 230 beakers per turn: Bureaucracy is worth that in about 8 to 9 turns. We remake the hammers in about the same time period for that too.
I'll try to stake our claim a bit in the southwest on my set but, other than that, it'll be whole hog to catapults to take out Huyana.
No problem. But I do need to actually spend some time with my wife now - I've had my head down over one form of Civ or another all day!
Just to note - I've been trying to build up GPP in Football Manager with an eye to doing the civic switch in a GA. Going Mono rather than MC next is a very real possibility.
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
Do we actually want to switch into OR? It is an expensive civic, does not help when building units (which we are going to be doing quite a bit of), and only helps cities which have the state religion (which we currently do not even have). I do not really see why we would want OR, or Monotheism tech, at this point in the game. Some forges, and later crossbows and samurai and windmills, would be a lot more useful.
(May 28th, 2018, 13:19)haphazard1 Wrote: Do we actually want to switch into OR? It is an expensive civic, does not help when building units (which we are going to be doing quite a bit of), and only helps cities which have the state religion (which we currently do not even have). I do not really see why we would want OR, or Monotheism tech, at this point in the game. Some forges, and later crossbows and samurai and windmills, would be a lot more useful.
Quite possibly not. One of the great things about playing an SG - particularly on a very different map - is being shaken out of your rut. I tend to just fall into a pattern of working towards a GA with an HR/CS/OR switch, but that might not suit this game (we're already in HR for a start).
BTW - I've set up extensive signs but they are very much suggestions. I've found Brian's very helpful - they tell me what the previous player was thinking, even if I might have done things slightly differntly.
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
Good discussion about the civic swaps! So far, I've always switched when I got a new civic I want to run, and didn't calculate how long it takes to recoup the losses from anarchy. Waiting for a GA seems like a good idea. If we don't want OR, do you think we can get to Theocracy in time before mass-producing units for our attack?
If you can manage to time your civic (and state religion) swaps for a golden age, it does save the anarchy turns and that can be a very substantial gain. (Or non-loss, but it amounts to pretty much the same thing.) The entire output of your empire for one or more turns: science, gold, culture, hammers, GPP, EP, everything. Anarchy is really expensive, which makes the spiritual trait more useful than it may appear at first. Spiritual civs can afford to make lots of civic swaps, jumping in and out of things like pacifism for short periods of GPP generation, serfdom when improving lots of tiles, slavery for bursts of whipping, military civics when training units, and so on.
For us, theocracy would be useful for troop training. But we would need to tech Theology which is not cheap at this point in the game, and also we do not have a religion spread through most of our cities yet. (Unless we got a lot more spreads during Brian's turns than I think we did.) Unless we want to delay going to war by quite a lot of turns, we probably do not want to wait before we start producing units.
We should think about what unit mix we want. Cats will be needed to handle defenses, especially if we want to go after Huayna's holy city. It will probably have 60% defenses very soon if it does not have them already. Do the Incas have horses? If so we will need some spears. At least a couple chariots to deal with stray axes might be useful. Axes of our own to deal with his spears and defend against axes. Do we want some swords? Horse archers? Lots of possibilities. Also, with Construction tech starting to become known, who has ivory? Running into war elephants would be a nasty shock if we are not prepared for them.
Having a unit or two, or even a spy, check out Incan territory to see just what we would be facing could help a lot. Not sure if this may have already happened, as we do not have shallow_thought's full report yet. He mentioned a spy, but I think that was more for the north?
Huyana doesn't have metal. I suspected as much but I should have waited for shallow_thought's report. Otherwise I would have declared war on T0 of my set and tried to harry him into RFS's teamset.
RFS, my goal will be to set you up to take him out. Not going to try and bet the farm, though. We need to commit but not that much.
No metal for the Incas? Ouch. Exposed to the raging barbs and not able to build axes, no wonder he has done so poorly. Opening by going for religion probably also slowed his development.
. I think the kill ratio was in excess of 10-1, but that 1 hurt. And we may be about to lose our silks for the second time in 6t 
. 
). It is nice to have bridges also, and not get stuck with movement penalties across rivers any more.
Exposed to the raging barbs and not able to build axes, no wonder he has done so poorly. Opening by going for religion probably also slowed his development.