T-hawk Plays Alpha Centauri

[TheHumanHydra]

I have to get a laugh that T-hawk started this.  I actually pulled out my old CDs to install the game.  Was thinking about a LK goes back to SMAC thread.  Not sure if we need three.

Go right ahead!

[Bobchillingworth]

Raze the base; it's the right thing to do both from a gameplay and roleplaying perspective.

[haphazard1]

I will second TheHumanHydra: the more the merrier, LKendter! Plus, it would be great to see more discussion and info from someone who actually knows what they are doing. I can already see a ton of things I should have done differently in my game, just from what I have learned so far. And T-hawk's game is already demonstrating things that I had not considered or did not understand sufficiently.

[Mardoc]

I have to get a laugh that T-hawk started this.  I actually pulled out my old CDs to install the game.  Was thinking about a LK goes back to SMAC thread.  Not sure if we need three.

Speaking as a lurker...of course we need more!  

[yuris125]

[Fluffball]

Yes, Gaia can get worms exponentially, but the exponent is small.  It takes long enough that it's not a reason against choosing the faction, anything you can conquer with worms can be done with impact rovers instead.

I'm not talking about conquering, I'm talking about building. My "comeback" game I'm playing now I picked the Gaians since they're one of my favorite factions, and I basically haven't built a military unit the whole game. Base defenders and some skeleton crew defense and then the rest of my gargantuan military is all native life. Find a fungus patch and just wallow around in it. I've got the biggest military in the game and I have built nothing but infrastructure the whole game.
It's not hyperbole, I'm just a different person with different opinions and playstyles than you and you can never wrap your head around that. Only T-Hawk knows how to play SMAC. Even Vel's guide suggests running a green military IIRC, but I haven't read that in 20 years.

[T-hawk]

What is "gargantuan"?  Why do you speak in hyperbole and not numbers, actual or even estimated?  That's what I'm calling out as much as anything else, making these claims without substantiated support.  (This isn't the metaphysics discussion, we can show proof here.)  How many worms do you have in how many turns?  Give us quantification and we'll all know how right you are.

[Fluffball]

What is "gargantuan"?  Why do you speak in hyperbole and not numbers, actual or even estimated?  That's what I'm calling out as much as anything else, making these claims without substantiated support.  (This isn't the metaphysics discussion, we can show proof here.)  How many worms do you have in how many turns?  Give us quantification and we'll all know how right you are.

My premise was that Gaia is an easier builder than the Hive. Gain doesn't need to EVER waste time on military. My "actual" number is irrelevant, but as I stated multiple times, I'm number 1 in power on the 2nd highest difficulty as well as I think you're doing something wrong or horribly cramped for space if you aren't near or the top of power as Gaia.

You just see a Fluffball post and start arguing rather than doing the obvious thing and saying "hey ya, it is actually beneficial to be able to farmer's gambit as a builder and still have the largest military on the planet." As you said, you're competing with the SPARTANS for conquering status yet you're only building network nodes and research hospitals. See what I'm saying yet? 

[T-hawk]

No, I see a Fluffball post and start wondering why you dodge everything I ask. Actual numbers are relevant. State your case in real terms and not vague claims. Show me what you conquered better than the Spartans. Show me that your 1 ranking is significant and not small potatoes like three mind worms against two impact rovers. Show me that your Gaia is outbuilding my Hive in this game through the same turn numbers. I haven't spent anything on military yet either.

[T-hawk]

OK, moving along.  Razing the UN base was definitely the consensus.  (This isn't a democracy, I'm still the despot Yang, but a despot who hears his advisors.)  But there's more story here.



My scout moved to make contact in 2110, and thus in 2111 can raze the base.  However, I talked to Lal one more time first.  Turns out he just researched Industrial Base and agreed to trade it!  Perfect, since Information Networks just finished for me and Ind Base was going to be my next research anyway.  And my side of the trade giving up Doctrine Loyalty does nothing for him who can't run Police State.  He also offered to trade me Doctrine Mobility, but I don't need that and it'll screw up the Ind Auto beeline.

Next, some full disclosure on how it all went.  Upon first contacting Lal, I inadvertently accepted his offer of a Treaty of Friendship, just by clicking too fast through the dialog out of habit.  I wanted to reload to redo that interaction without accepting that treaty, under the idea that simply declaring vendetta is less bad for your reputation than breaking a treaty.  But oddly, if we didn't sign a treaty, then the next turn (start of 2111), Lal had a Colony Pod in the base.  I don't think the base built it that turn; I think he moved it to defend the base since we didn't have a treaty.  The presence of the pod would require an extra turn to kill.  (There are no civilian nonmilitary units in SMAC; everything fights with an armor value of at least 1; though nonweapon units with no armor beyond 1 get a 50% combat penalty.)  I could attack with my scout to kill the pod in 2111 and then capture the base in 2112; but I felt like that's going a little too far on abusing reloading.  Finally, while testing this, the Integrity readout for my faction seemed to be the same "Faithful" (down from Noble) either way, breaking a truce or a treaty, so it didn't make any difference anyway.



So ultimately nothing changed: I did sign the treaty in 2110, and broke it and destroyed the base in 2111.



We also got 8 energy credits in the capture; we need everything we can get towards the cumulative 120 cost of adopting all three SE policies.

The other reason to destroy UN Headquarters: I want that land for myself.  There's a river there.  The Hive craves rivers badly for the energy to make up for the faction penalty.  I have my next base site designated as shown, where it will be on the river and able to reach that nutrient bonus.

That factors in to my terraforming plans.  Both bases finished building their formers this turn in 2111.  The former from The Hive (facing northeast) moved along the river to start foresting that tile.  The former from Labor Network (facing northwest) moved as shown in 2111 to build a road there in 2112 (a road takes one turn on flat land), since that road will be used to speed that colony pod towards the next base site.  Then in 2113, the second former joined the first (moving two tiles along road then river) to complete that forest a turn sooner.  Then in 2114, both formers moved onto the roaded tile to forest that too.

Research: I finished Info Networks at the start of 2111, traded for Ind Base, and set my next research to Ind Economics.



Also still in 2111, The Hive is due to grow to size 2.  Problem is handling happiness after growing; at Transcend difficulty you get one content citizen but drones start at size 2.  The only available answer other than a doctor specialist is to jack psych all the way up to 50%.  After growing, the city will add another river tile for 4 psych total so 50% of it makes 2 to pacify one drone.

2112: Labor Network grew one turn later and had it even worse; I had to set psych all the way to 80% for this one turn so its 2 energy could all go into psych.



2113: Thanks to that first forest just completing, The Hive has exactly enough minerals to complete its police scout this turn.  Notice that the city looks unhappy now, but the scout will be produced and kick in for police before the happiness is checked.  So I dropped psych back to 0%.  Labor Network would complete its scout one turn later, so I did hire a doctor there for this one turn, better that than wasting 80% on psych for only one base.  The Hive built a former next (needed there since the first two formers went north), and Labor Network started a colony pod for the UN Headquarters Memorial River site.

I tilted economy/labs to 60/40, resulting in 4 credits and 2 labs.  Each scout is that base's third unit, which is where support costs start, so now we need energy to get into Police State to alleviate that.



Over in Peacekeeper land, I can infer where their next base is by that red outline.  But I continued farther west instead of going to mess with it.  It probably won't be undefended, or even if it is, the faction is already crippled.  Finally, I don't want to talk to Lal if I don't have to.  I might have already inflicted enough damage that he will capitulate into a submissive pact.  Such a pact means the pactee hands over all their techs.  I want that later, but not yet until the Industrial Automation beeline is secure.  You only get one chance to accept a submissive pact; if you decline, the faction goes to permanent vendetta on you and will never speak again.

Second reason to keep going: notice that border line down there, that is closer than 8 tiles to the PK base, so there is another neighbor this direction too!



2115: Ouch, one of my exploring scouts wound up next to a mind worm and got killed!  This was unfortunate timing: mind worms attack at half strength before 2115 (to give you a small breather very early; and I think it's longer on lower difficulty) but this was the first turn that it would attack at full strength to kill me.  Well, that scout already explored all the way out to the east coast and I can live without it.  Sadly, that was my original starting Independent (supportless) scout.

With 37 credits on hand, I switch economy/labs back to 50/50 because that produces exactly the 3 energy I need this turn to total to 40 to adopt Police State next turn.

2116: Got a free forest growth, cool.



Adopted Police State, which immediately saves one support at each base.  (The Support modifier really is more important than the Police modifier.)  I left labs at 50/50 for the moment; my goal is to reach 40 credits at the same time as Planetary Networks to adopt Planned economics, but that's far enough (~18 turns) that I can't calibrate it exactly from here.



Uh oh, another mind worm!  My scout in Labor Network could attack it along the road, but he would incur a -33% Hasty modifier (for attacking with only 2/3 movement point left), which would negate the 3:2 psi attacker advantage into even strength.  Losing that scout would be disastrous.  I decided to just move both formers out of the way north to work on the rocky nutrient square.



Next turn, the mind worm moved adjacent to the base, where my scout can cleanly kill it with the full 3:2 psi attack and collect the 10 energy reward.

The formers start executing the Terraform Level command, which reduces the rockiness in a square.  After that I'll have a rolling-arid tile, which is poor enough that I'll plant forest here.  This is a lot of terraforming effort for one square but it's worth it to stack up the forest on the nutrient bonus.

2118: Cool, another forest growth.

2119: The Hive finishes former, starts colony pod.  I don't want to build a lot of colony pods out of here, as this base has no nutrient bonus for growth while my next three bases all will.  But I need one to get started, and the base is at the support limit so I'm not doing another former right now.  The new former starts building roads towards my intended base site.



My west scout (still hasn't found anybody beyond the Peacekeepers) found and killed a mind worm for 10 credits again.  I decided that was enough to warrant rushing the colony pod in Labor Network.  I've been waiting to show the right way to do a cash rush: instead of paying the full amount, pay only just enough so that the city's normal production will complete the item this turn.  After considering that the city will produce 4 minerals, we need to buy 8 out of the 12 remaining, so 8/12*31 rounded up means we pay 21 credits.

2120: Cool, another forest growth!  Finished Industrial Economics, start researching Planetary Networks, though it's due in a massive 17 years.  Labor Network finished its colony pod, and starts another, don't need more terraformers here with so much free forest.



2120: I just noticed this faction dominance readout.  Yikes, what is the University up to?  Whenever that happens, it's the faction that landed in the monsoon jungle.  Well, maybe they'll actually pose some opposition down the road.



Yeah, THAT jungle.



2122: Which contains not the University, but Morgan!  Turns out Morgan isn't neglectfully negligent on defending his base, though.

But... the jungle is also going to contain the University.  I can infer that when Morgan offers me Zakharov's comm frequency for 20 credits.  I decline, I can't spare that and I should be able to find Zak myself.

Morgan wants to trade tech, he offers either Applied Physics or Social Psych, but I decline because that will still upset my Ind Auto beeline.  But we strike this deal:



He loans me 63 credits (Morgan starts with an extra 100) for payments of 2/year.  90 years is kind of an absurdly long time for a loan debt, eh?  But I take it - it's a net gain until 31 years pass, and I can easily gain enough turn-advantage with the money now to be producing 2 extra credits/turn by then.  I spend half of it on rushing the colony pod at The Hive, which starts another former next.

Also this turn that pair of formers finally finished working on Labor Network's formerly-rocky tile, leaving me with a nice 3-2-1 forest+nutrient square.  And my southern scout found and killed a mind worm, although barely survived at 20% health, gotta heal him for a while before risking more fungus.



2123: That pod from The Hive built its base over here, immediately on the same turn it was produced thanks to that former having built roads first.  The Leader's Horde put its free 10 minerals onto a former that I rushed right away, so it could start on colony pods next.  With that very nice rolling-moist-nutrient tile (worth a farm and even a solar collector at just over 1000m altitude), it will produce all the colony pods for this area.  I didn't even want it to spend time building a police unit, so I sent over the police unit from The Hive which built a replacement.  I alertly rehomed both the first former and the police unit to the new base to spread the support load and give The Hive lots of headroom to support more formers.  Finally, to the west you can also see the other colony pod about to build next turn over on the UN's old river, and I rushed the former at that base too with the last of Morgan's loan.

2125: I chatted with Morgan again, and this time thought to request Zak's comm frequency by offering Morgan a tech (Centauri Ecology), which he accepted.  Zak also signed a treaty of friendship, and also wants to trade techs of course, offering either of Applied Physics or Doctrine Flexibility, but again I say no.




2125: 25 turns seems like a good stopping point for today.  Here's an overview.  Planetary Networks is due in 13 years, still producing only 4 labs/turn, although I'm going to speed that up with the slider whenever I can (at the moment any increased lab allocation is lost to the inefficiency slider penalty.)  What I need is bases to actually stay at size 2 working some river tiles instead of pooping out more colony pods right away; we'll get there.  My next base site will be on the river south of Leader's Horde with the energy bonus.