Caster of Magic Release thread : latest version 6.06!

[Nelphine]

If you're in the middle of casting something, you can't cast summoning circle (important if trying to plan how to defend against an incoming doomstack). Finding an object in cities isn't always that easy with many buildings, or too many cities.

I agree it's not super important, but I think of the 3 I would avoid removing it if possible.

I'd remove the casting one first, the research one second.  Even then, I'd avoid removing research (nice to be reminded without going to the research screen, especially if you've been researching something for many hours (a few to a dozen+ turns depending on where in the game you are.) Whereas casting new spells you do almost every turn, unless making items or casting spells of mastery. Even Global's, by the time you get them, take a lot less time than researching. So you go to the casting spells screen a lot (you don't even need an f key get to casting spells, but you do for research.)

[Seravy]

Assuming it's possible to add this much new code (probably not but one can dream), I think the ideal would be to replace all three lines with

Next Skill : X (Y)
Next Spell : A (B)
Skill Remaining : C (D)

Where X is the SP needed to get skill to increase, Y is the total amount needed for one skill (including the amount you already produced), A is the RP needed for the current research, B is the turns it takes to finish that research, C is how much skill you have unused for the turn without, D with hero skill.

[Nelphine]

Honestly, I don't even know what 'next spell' means. If it's how much research to next spell, I'd much rather keep 'Researching: x (amount left)'. I don't think there's any use at all to the original research cost of the current spell. If you hit F3 you can see exactly how much you need; putting just that same number here doesn't give us any new information. putting the name of what you're researching on the magic screen is helpful, because that's the screen that takes you to diplomacy so you can remind yourself exactly what you're researching so you don't accidentally trade for it if you haven't looked at F3 in a long while.

[Seravy]

Diplomacy huh.
I was thinking having to exit the screen, press F3, look at the remaining RP amount exactly, and try to set that amount, then check again to make sure it indeed does show "1 turn" is a lot more pain than that. 
I tend to go into the diplomacy screen to check whether the others even have a spell for trade, and if they do it's far too late to go back and check what I'm researching.

Not that it matters, 99% these will remain dreams, not actual features

[Nelphine]

right that's my point. if you don't have to go all the way back to hit f3 to see your researching spell, you'll know. that's why i use that 'researching:' spot.

i go to magic screen, check what i'm researching, and then click on the enemy picture for diplomacy - every time. I lost too many spells I was reseaching by forgetting. Thus why I say I use that spot. It's why I think we should keep it.

It's why, ideally, it would say 'researching: x' and then in brackets (how much RP is left)

Checking F3 constantly for an exact amount is annoying, but 'only' takes time; forgetting what you're researching for diplomacy loses you hundreds, even thousands or more of research points. annoying in a different way.

[Bahgtru]

Except my rule is always: max skill, except for some amount for research and mana.

In the very early game (pre 1403) mana concerns can be specific enough to care about 1 or 2 mana; and going from 19 to 20 skill can actually matter depending what spells you know. So that early it's important to know exactly how much skill or mana you need.

In the late game, going from 173 to 174 mana will have absolutely no impact on my combats; therefore it will only affect my overland. And, it will only ever be a difference of 1 skill if I misjudge how much to spend on skill. Whereas, with your heroes, you can misjudge by the entire amount. (Yes I could move my heroes out of my capital. For me, it's MUCH easier to open the 'cities' window and count the number of cities with towers, which I can see by race and location, all shown on the cities tab. Sure I might be off by a tower or 2, but that only means I misjudge skill allocation by 14 or 28 which will never be enough to affect more than 1 skill point).

I don't understand what scenario there is where you'd need to make decisions further than that. Do you at some point just completely stop investing in skill, and that's why you want to know? Are you calculating whether to make mana to alchemize to buy more towers rather than spending on skill? I guess you could but then why not just find the required skill and never build towers at all before then; then stop at that skill until all your cities have towers; then max skill again. Each time you get a new city, stop skill until you have enough gold for the tower. No calculations are needed.

It's for the mid game. When you need to decide if it's worth the investment or not. Sending power into skill has a diminishing return, it could be better to convert to gold and then buy amp towers. In the late game you'll want all the amp towers that you can build, in mid game it's going to depend on how much you've already invested in skill and how much instead already comes from towers... So, the request.

[Nelphine]

Right but that mid game never changes. Calculate the skill (around 140 I think? Maybe 143?). Don't build towers before then. When you reach it, stop producing skill until you have enough gold for all towers in all cities. Then produce skill again. Done

Edit: wait 143 is with alchemy. So 286? I usually have all my towers built before I reach that high base anyway.

[teelaurila]

Just to make sure, hero skill is the only skill that needs to be used "between turns" (non-instant), i.e. spellweaver does not give this kind of skill?

To comment on befor:

Total overland casting skill, including everything
and
Amount of the same that has not yet been spent this turn.

Then you won't know your combat skill, nor how much of the skill is unavailable for instant casting.
But I agree, skill left for the turn should be visible somewhere too.

For combat skill, sure you wouldn't know. But it shows every combat and changes slowly, so it's not much of an issue. It could come up for when you need just the last couple skill points to be able to cast a given spell 2 or 3 times. It is more of a deal for spellweaver, of course.

But I do think with these numbers you would know the skill "left unavailable for instant casting" even better than with the raw number of "hero skill (+spellweaver?)". For example, say you are casting resist magics. After you can no longer cast one instantly, you have the remainder of say, 20 skill left. Now say on top of that you got another 20 of "non-instant" skill. What matters is that 40. So if you know that 40 you know you can start casting another resist magic (25) to get it between turns, but for no loss of available skill you could also cast a hell hounds at 40.

That 40 is also how much of a larger spell gets cast before next turn if you start it at the end of this turn (the "turns to cast" icons in the spellbook do not take skill used this turn to account).

So for my part I would advocate "D" being the most important number for skill. "C" could help to know in advance whether you can do 3 or 4 instant buffs before attacking - but it matters only if you choose to retreat and do something else altogether if it's 3. Which is not common. Likewise total overland or combat casting numbers could be of some use.

Research and skill growth numbers doesn't seem to matter much to me. You can see research at the research screen, and what I put to the skill staff depends on what I don't need for mana, not present skill. Perhaps if I played alchemist, which I have not for long time, this could change.

[Bahgtru]

Nelphine it changes also in other ways, like for humans it's different. And sometimes you conquer towers. Some other times you start a tower because you don't have anything else to do there. So knowing the skill number doesn't really work, it's necessary to count the towers and then you are doing something mechanic that would be better done by the pc.

So my idea is useful. Especially compared with your need which can be served, again, by simply moving out the heroes, checking the magic screen, and moving them back inside.

I agree with teela on the subject of combat skill. I don't even think that it's an issue for spellweavers as everybody gets in some minor combat and sees the combat skill there.

[Nelphine]

At 286, I don't think it matters - 90% of your towers will already be built, every game. You could safely ignore it, and almost always (I would guess around 99%) have enough gold for the remaining towers from your natural gold income. I'm not sure what you mean it's different for humans?

But obviously we disagree. That's fine. At least we know both numbers would be used by someone.