As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer

Create an account  

 
[Spoilers] Suboptimal - Welcome to the Tlachtli of Blunders!

(June 5th, 2018, 07:06)TheArchduke Wrote: Attacking Geneva with a mini fleet is valid. (2 Frigates and 1 caravel).

Attacking Perseus will probably result in said fleet death by crossbow bolts. Geneva is the better targets.

Geneva is the primary target of this operation.  I might take some crossbow fire getting there but the land doesn't give him enough firing positions to kill one caravel and damage the other enough to matter. He might also attempt to stall the attack by moving his galley out to stop the frigates with its ZoC but a caravel can one-shot it (56 vs 25).  Actually, the easiest way for him to stall my attack would be to park an embarked unit in the strait. 

If he were to move that many crossbows up to the north coast he's inviting an early attack on Xenocrates.  Most of my upgrades will be on Turn 142 so he's going to see the fleet move into position, a pile of upgrades on the front line and have to decide upon his force allocation.
Sending units to their death since 2017.

Don't do what I did: PBEM 3 - Arabia , PBEM 6 - Australia This worked well enough: PBEM 10 - Aztecs Gamus Interruptus: PBEM 14 - Indonesia 
Gathering Storm Meanderings: PBEM 15 - Gorgo You Say Pítati, I Say Potato: PBEM 17 - Nubia The Last of the Summer Wine: PBEM 18 - Eleanor/England
Rhymin' Simon: PBEM 20 - Indonesia (Team w/ China)
Reply

Turn 140

Another quiet turn. At Cant and Near I start rearranging the mass of units in order to be in a position to start promoting and lining things up per the plan. In the north the navy advances. Next turn rho21 will get a full view of my navy and I’ll get to see what he does about it. I decide to move the lead caravel up in a position that maintains full view on the city center. I do use the extra movement to look ahead to check the coast at the strait – nothing there yet.

Harborcoat has finished its lighthouse and needs something to build...at 9.4Icon_Production per turn. I start a builder – even though it’ll take a while there are some improvements to make up at Green.

rho21 claimed the Great Scientist, the next one up is Darwin. With the new point total required I’m 31 turns out from claiming it, Japper is 50. I’ve got the project at Near running which will get me 40+ GS points. I could run a couple more – Darwin + Pantanal would be huge despite the known overflow issues.

Oddfellows and How are down to one turn on their military builds. Oddfellows switches to a mustketman, How starts a Campus project (6 turn build time).
Sending units to their death since 2017.

Don't do what I did: PBEM 3 - Arabia , PBEM 6 - Australia This worked well enough: PBEM 10 - Aztecs Gamus Interruptus: PBEM 14 - Indonesia 
Gathering Storm Meanderings: PBEM 15 - Gorgo You Say Pítati, I Say Potato: PBEM 17 - Nubia The Last of the Summer Wine: PBEM 18 - Eleanor/England
Rhymin' Simon: PBEM 20 - Indonesia (Team w/ China)
Reply

Turn 141

I enter the Industrial Age by completing Ballistics. Roads are now 0.75 movement so that should speed a few things up a bit. I start Mass Production. I check the tech tree and it shows I’m even with rho21, though the gossip doesn’t say he’s entered the Industrial Age. OTOH, the gossip does show that he’s trading with Kongo. His science has also jumped up another 10 points. yikes

Up at Perseus he’s brought a crossbow around to the city. That could be a problem as it’ll be able to reach one of the frigates. On the other hand my advance look by the lead caravel shows no other units yet. The end position of my navy after moving:




I’ve tucked the second Frigate into the ice nook at a poor man’s attempt at deception. If he only comes out one hex from the city he’ll only see two caravels and the siege tower next turn. If he comes out two he’ll only see one Frigate. Next turn the navy will position itself so that the lead caravel is on the hex SW of the crabs at Geneva and everyone else is lined up single file behind it along the ice pack. The longer he thinks I’m attacking Perseus the better.

Units at Near and Cant continue moving into position. Upgrades will occur on Turn 143.

Elsewhere the builder at Cant has finished and it starts heading for the jungle tile I need to trim. It’ll get there on T146 and chop on T147. The horseman has arrived at the tundra and will spend one more turn on the water before disembarking, hopefully into the camp. Cant starts a Campus project, Maps will spend the next two turns completing its monument. Begin’s spy completes next turn. Speaking of spies, this could get interesting as I expect that both rho21 and Japper are building spies.

I also realized I pulled a smoke move again and left FOUR crossbows incomplete in the queue. Holy crap I’m an idiot...that’s over 600Icon_Production I just evaporated. 25smoke/5 for that move. That’s twice in this game I’ve done that now. At some point I need to put a checklist somewhere in my report file that includes “CHECK BUILD QUEUES FOR OBSOLETING UNITS”. I did learn that if the build is ACTIVE it will upgrade in the queue, but if the Icon_Production is sitting around and there's an upgrade the production is lost....High Speed was actively building a crossbow and didn't lose any production.
Sending units to their death since 2017.

Don't do what I did: PBEM 3 - Arabia , PBEM 6 - Australia This worked well enough: PBEM 10 - Aztecs Gamus Interruptus: PBEM 14 - Indonesia 
Gathering Storm Meanderings: PBEM 15 - Gorgo You Say Pítati, I Say Potato: PBEM 17 - Nubia The Last of the Summer Wine: PBEM 18 - Eleanor/England
Rhymin' Simon: PBEM 20 - Indonesia (Team w/ China)
Reply

Turn 142

This will be another quiet turn.  The next one?  Not so much.  Up in the northwest the barbarian camp has spawned a musketman.  I think what I will do here is land the horseman on the camp and hen re-embark next turn to run away.  I’ll let the frigates deal with the musket when they go by here.  

First big news of the turn is the spy completing in Begin.  Hello Xochitl, here are your starting foreign missions:




The Konlgolese city cut off at the top is Kapsalon.  Nasischijf is the former Hong Kong. Hmmm...two turns longer than expected to establish in Xenocrates.  Wonder if the spy’s visibility starts after arrival (4 turns) or after establishment (3 turns).  It’s been a while since I’ve used a spy in a game, partly because it’s been a while since I’ve played an SP game.   Seems to be a theme around these parts.  Off to Xenocrates you go!

Up in the north it’s time to get into position for the attack on Geneva.  Lead caravel advances.  No sign of Greek units anywhere except for the traders.  The rest of the navy moves into position:




rho21 will not be able to move units into position to do anything more than spectate next turn unless he brings his great general along with them.  The galley could attempt to sacrifice itself by using its ZoC but as I’ve mentioned previously it’d be one-shot by a caravel and not slow anything down.
Sending units to their death since 2017.

Don't do what I did: PBEM 3 - Arabia , PBEM 6 - Australia This worked well enough: PBEM 10 - Aztecs Gamus Interruptus: PBEM 14 - Indonesia 
Gathering Storm Meanderings: PBEM 15 - Gorgo You Say Pítati, I Say Potato: PBEM 17 - Nubia The Last of the Summer Wine: PBEM 18 - Eleanor/England
Rhymin' Simon: PBEM 20 - Indonesia (Team w/ China)
Reply

Really curious to see how the siege tower works with frigates. That was a clever move.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
Reply

Turn 143

I had a quite bit of trepidation opening the save this evening.  Would rho21 come up with something to thwart my attack on Geneva?  Have I overlooked something critical that’s going to derail this whole plan?  In some ways, yes:




He sank one of thefrigates with crossbow fire.  That takes Perseus off the table.  Geneva also has a swordsman in the city, which has raised its defense to 57.  This will take two turns to deal with now, maybe even three. The loss of the frigate was A big blow as that means that Geneva's walls will survive the turn. However, the show must go on and I must carry through the attack if I'm to reign in rho21's science.  The swordsman showing up in Geneva is admittedly unexpected, though even if it didn't show up the loss of the Frigate makes this a two turn attack.  

(June 6th, 2018, 09:59)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Really curious to see how the siege tower works with frigates. That was a clever move.

Well, I did some testing using caravels, frigates and Firetuner in an SP map prior to getting the naval plan going in order to check this out.  It works.  In spades.  With a cherry on top.  

My frigates are attacking the city center at a CS of 68.  Against a city defense of 57 the expected base damage is 47 (rounded from 46.6).  Against walls this would be 23.5 because all ranged attacks do 50% damage vs walls (this is in addition to the -17 strength for land-based ranged units).  

Here’s the city combat info box for a frigate without the siege tower adjacent to Geneva:

[Image: HoHcLmu.jpg]

Note that the blue line for the wall damage is about 1/2 erased, which is roughly 23 points of damage.  Also note that the green line representing city defense is untouched or only marginally so (some damage bleeds through to the city garrison when walls are damaged)  Now we move the siege engine adjacent and:

[Image: HoHcQnm.jpg]

The obvious change is that the display has changed from “Major Wall Damage” to “Minor City Damage”.  The blue line is unchanged from the first scenario – about 1 /2 erased.  However, the green line is also showing damage, about 50% of the line, which corresponds to the 47 damage to the city center.  I don’t show it here but the effect is the same with caravels – they will damage the city center at full strength and do their usual 15% damage to the walls.

The siege tower, at a cost of 100Icon_Production, is effectively a +50% damage modifier to ranged naval units (and a +100% damage modifier to land-based siege units like bombards and catapults) attacking any walled city before Steel is researched.  With naval engagements the impediment is the fact that the siege tower is slower (3 MP vs. 5 for frigates & caravels).  For land-based units the impediment is that the damage and CS modifiers prevent land units from completely eliminating the walls on the first turn of attacks while using a siege tower, putting them at risk from city bombardment.  The solution in this instance is to bring both a siege tower and a battering ram as their effects stack.  Yes, you read that correctly.  With both support units a melee land unit is doing full damage to the walls and full damage to the city center on the same attack. crazyeye

The only reason Perseus would take more than one turn to take down in this manner is its city defense (52) and it having only one tile of coastal frontage.  The average damage rolls would “only” inflict a total of 168 damage on the city for a three-ship attack.  Despite this I do intend on taking out Perseus once Geneva is done and then sailing immediately for the Greek coast (the long way rolleye).  With Terracotta Army completing while they are en route they’ll both get the Rolling Barrage promotion (+10 CS vs. district defenses) in time for the assault on the Greek west coast.

With units in position I start the attack.  Frigate first, 51 to the garrison, 24 to the walls.  First caravel does 4 to the walls and 36 to the garrison.  Second caravel does another 4 points to the walls (they’re now at 20) and 34 to the garrison.  The end result:




Not desirable, especially since the city will get to heal 20 damage in the interturn.  This will be very close, particularly if a caravel is sunk by the city (or rho21) next turn.  For next turn the expected damage rolls are 59 for the Frigate and 32 and 33 for the caravels before any damage from a city attack or rho21 showing up are applie.  So long as a ship isn’t sunk I should be able to take the city.  So close.  I will probably lose the rest of the navy to the Greek caravel unless I earn a promotion or two in the process.   His caravel also can’t get to my fleet until the turn after next, as 5 movement will put it one hex short of the frigate, unless he’s somehow come up with 6 MP for the caravel.  This gets remarkably easier if Geneva's swordsman moves out of the city.

With 1000Icon_Gold on hand it’s time for upgrades.  Two catapults (getting the Siege Tactics eureka), three swordsmen (getting the Replaceable Parts eureka) and two crossbows (getting the Scorched Earth inspiration).  I still have 178Icon_Gold in the bank but my income is down to 39.1 from 53.3.  

Elsewhere the dead-lined barbarian swordsman has shown up in camp.  My horseman amphibiously attacks, killing it and gaining me 50Icon_Gold back into my treasury.  With the naval situation at Geneva I bite the bullet at Find, hold my nose, pay the 150Icon_Gold for the coastal tile, place the Harbor and chop the forest.  The chop is for 165, 4 go into the musketman, 161 into the Harbor, one turn of production leftover.  I also start working on Scientific Theory. Horsemen are started at Maps and Begin.  Kenneth will start one next turn – I’m trying to get a few of them out before I research Military Science for cavalry.  

Humanism will complete next turn – I’ll pull Feudal Contract and Professional Army and put in Natural Philosophy and Press Gangs so that Find can get started on the naval rebuild.  I just need to keep an eye on my income but Mercantilism will help with that when I get there. 

The trepidation continues....
Sending units to their death since 2017.

Don't do what I did: PBEM 3 - Arabia , PBEM 6 - Australia This worked well enough: PBEM 10 - Aztecs Gamus Interruptus: PBEM 14 - Indonesia 
Gathering Storm Meanderings: PBEM 15 - Gorgo You Say Pítati, I Say Potato: PBEM 17 - Nubia The Last of the Summer Wine: PBEM 18 - Eleanor/England
Rhymin' Simon: PBEM 20 - Indonesia (Team w/ China)
Reply

Now I am anxious as well.

Still excellent operation, although my gut feeling had crossbowshots going your way as well.

If Geneva is razed (you should raze it) you need to compare science rates ASAP. If you beat him on science, I advise against an offensive on land.
Reply

It was a fucking disaster. The sword in Geneva upgraded to a musketman, raising the city defense to 71 and rendering capture impossible. I wound up killing his caravel (he's running Logistics so was able to get there with it to attack but not kill the frigate). Geneva needs to die but I don't see how I can get there unless I land a massive invasion force in the tundra or bring in a crap tonne (yes, metric, because it's bigger lol) of battleships to wipe out everything that comes near the coast (not gonna happen).

Turn report coming up with some questions about what's next.
Sending units to their death since 2017.

Don't do what I did: PBEM 3 - Arabia , PBEM 6 - Australia This worked well enough: PBEM 10 - Aztecs Gamus Interruptus: PBEM 14 - Indonesia 
Gathering Storm Meanderings: PBEM 15 - Gorgo You Say Pítati, I Say Potato: PBEM 17 - Nubia The Last of the Summer Wine: PBEM 18 - Eleanor/England
Rhymin' Simon: PBEM 20 - Indonesia (Team w/ China)
Reply

Turn 144

The intro has changed to the Industrial Age one….rho21 entered the Industrial last turn. OK...let’s see if I have a shred of a chance at killing Geneva or if my plan has been completely undone. So long as I have a frigate there’s a chance.




I’ve got no chance here --- Geneva upgraded the swordsman to a rifleman and the city strength is now 71 (full strength is 76). rho21 is bringing up a large number of forces as well. I am curious to know how his caravel was able to move 6 hexes, though. OK...gotta salvage this disaster somehow. The best thing I can do here is sink the caravel. I move the northern caravel west, swap places with the frigate and the two ships kill the caravel. I leave the siege tower behind and move the southern caravel west as far as it’ll go. Whether or not rho21 shoots at it will be determined what he does with his forces next turn. The siege tower follows. At least it can’t be shot at...wonder if embarked units can take a siege tower? At least I know his cities will be firing at my units with the strength of a field cannon.

What went wrong? Everything..

- Underestimated rho21’s ability to interfere with the naval operation
- Underestimated rho21’s ability to interfere with the naval operation (yes, I’m putting that in twice)
- Despite fully understanding city-state AI behavior I failed to anticipate what would happen when a garrison showed up in the city center when I saw the city was unoccupied. The resulting increase in city defense removed the possibility to take the city-state in one turn.
- The AI actually did something intelligent. I can’t recall ever seeing a city-state actually upgrade a unit. The further increase in city defense eliminated any chance of taking the city with current-era units. I don’t know that I’d be able to get to Geneva short of taking out rho21, which I don’t think will happen.

At least I’m not sitting in traffic yelling at myself. mischief

Forces at Near reposition themselves for the upcoming attack. I move the musketman from the Encampment to the “no man’s land” tile on my side of the river to see what’s in Xenocrates’ Encampment. He’s got a crossbow in the Encampment but a double-promoted field cannon behind it. That could get ugly. I’d be ready to start on Turn 146 but I think having full visibility with the spy on T149 might be best here.

I go into the civics tree and select Mercantilism as my next civic. I also see that rho21 has progressed ahead of me in the tree, probably to Mercantilism. That explains the caravel’s extra movement – Logistics. I swap out Feudal Contract and put Press Gangs back in. I want to get some caravels up for coastal defense in case rho21 decides to mount something across the ocean, then I’ll consider a couple of frigates for any potential offensive action against the Greek coastline (or Japper, for that matter).

Archduke, a few questions:

- Do you have any suggestions for dealing with the 2x promoted field cannon? It’s on the hill directly east of the Encampment. I could upgrade the two southern crossbows to field cannons in four turns for added ranged firepower. The great general arrives in 5 and that would also help in the south.
- Do you think it might be better to continue the military stalemate with rho21, get a southern army formed up as quickly as possible and then plow through Japper? If Japper is the better route should I just launch from Begin or consider a few Frigates to do an amphibious take-and-hold at the former Hong Kong?
- Regardless of who I try to invade I’m thinking it’s better to raze everything I take – rho21 isn’t going to give me peace at that lets me access Geneva (for attack or for science) and I doubt Japper will give me peace once war breaks out. With the cities in constant occupation they’ll do me no good but I’d have to worry about defending them to prevent reclamation.
Sending units to their death since 2017.

Don't do what I did: PBEM 3 - Arabia , PBEM 6 - Australia This worked well enough: PBEM 10 - Aztecs Gamus Interruptus: PBEM 14 - Indonesia 
Gathering Storm Meanderings: PBEM 15 - Gorgo You Say Pítati, I Say Potato: PBEM 17 - Nubia The Last of the Summer Wine: PBEM 18 - Eleanor/England
Rhymin' Simon: PBEM 20 - Indonesia (Team w/ China)
Reply

Damn that upgrade. Wow..

I was afraid of a crossbow bolt sink, one turn slower but not coming anywhere near rho´s forces would have worked.

Hmm, can you upload the save, I would love to look over your armies.

Seeing field cannons on his side, I fear that this once again devolves into a military stalemate for the attacker, so no attacking might be smarter.

Attacking Japper is probably of no use. Back to the drawing table. Damn you Geneva. Why did Rho have to have the BEST CS in the game alone in the tundra as Greece. I guess there is no chance in overtaking him in envoys over there.
Reply



Forum Jump: