October 27th, 2018, 22:42
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Id almost think, if you can make Moai work like great people.. Every coastal city would love to have it. Just make it cost more per build? /shrug. Probably too much to ask for.
"Superdeath seems to have acquired a rep for aggression somehow. ![[Image: noidea.gif]](https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/images/smilies/noidea.gif) In this game that's going to help us because he's going to go to the negotiating table with twitchy eyes and slightly too wide a grin and terrify the neighbors into favorable border agreements, one-sided tech deals and staggered NAPs."
-Old Harry. PB48.
October 28th, 2018, 04:00
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Joined: Jun 2009
(October 27th, 2018, 22:16)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: Moai stacking is fine, not game breaking. Double Oxford or Wall Street would really change the game. I'd be interested in trying it out but I can't do more than one game at a time. I'd follow with interest though.
I should explain how it is currently implemented: the reason that they stack is because of technical issues, and not design decisions.
I have duplicated all of the national wonders in the BuildingsInfos.xml file, and created new classes in the BuildingsClassInfos.xml file. I then altered the copies to have the name "Industrial" National Wonder eg Industrial Heroic Epic, Industrial Iron Works, created new blurb for the Pedia so that it reads differently, and states that only Industrious leaders can build the copies of national wonders.
But that is actually a lie. There is nowhere in the XML that it is possible to make buildings or units unique to leaders with specific traits (I could do it for civs though by turning the National Wonders into Unique Buildings, but that doesn't work for us). So The copies of the National Wonders are available to all to build, except I increased the cost by a factor of 200 and gave Industrious a trait production bonus of 19000% to remove that cost increase factor ie the HE costs 200 hammers to build, but the Industrial HE costs 40,000 hammers to build. None Ind leaders put 1 hammer towards teh Industrial HE, but Ind leaders put 200 hammers towards Industrial HE for every 1 base hammer they produce.
I have changed the artwork to that of an Academy for all copies, to avoid confusion for players so they don't accidentally choose the "Wrong" national wonder. I have removed all resource bonuses from the Industrial National Wonders, instead adjusting the cost of the Industrial National Wonder to take into account only the IND production bonus for wonders is the better lever. This also essentially removes the effectiveness of any other production bonus, which IMO is neither here nor there. It does allow us to use other levers to balance these copies though, and we have the ability to house rule "No stacking", which is enough for a test game and I'd probably say is the more prudent test.
So, what I'm thinking is this:
- After the cost increase and production modifier for IND, reduce the cost of all National Wonders until the Medi era by 30%, and all NW after this by 35% to take into account greater availability of forge, and OR etc (these bonuses will still exist but will be negligible).
- House rule no stacking of same type of National Wonder (so no stacking OU and Industrial OU (IOU)) in the same city, but it is OK to stack HE and Industrial West Point in the same city, or OU and Industrial Wall Street.
- If we think this works and agree it should be brought into the main line for RtR, we can see who we can blackmail to get this coded more elegantly via the SDK because I'm a moron.
This seem sane?
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
October 28th, 2018, 04:00
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(October 27th, 2018, 22:42)superdeath Wrote: Id almost think, if you can make Moai work like great people.. Every coastal city would love to have it. Just make it cost more per build? /shrug. Probably too much to ask for.
This is an attempt to balance IND, to give it something that isn't fighting with other IND leaders over wonders. Adjusting Moai doesn't achieve that aim.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
October 28th, 2018, 15:53
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(October 27th, 2018, 10:21)superdeath Wrote: I'm interested :D
Why am I not surprised.  Be honest you try to setup a record of most PB run simultaneously. 
October 28th, 2018, 15:59
Posts: 23,435
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Joined: Jun 2009
* Krill prods Charriu to sign up
Two Pitbosses can be managed at the same time by some people, dependent on real life...
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
October 28th, 2018, 16:48
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I think that is an interesting concept. No stacking same type NWs should keep this from being too OP.
October 28th, 2018, 20:30
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(October 28th, 2018, 15:53)Charriu Wrote: (October 27th, 2018, 10:21)superdeath Wrote: I'm interested :D
Why am I not surprised. Be honest you try to setup a record of most PB run simultaneously.
Its about the only thing ill win!
On a more serious note, its either play and writeup several different pitbosses at the same time, or read a book. And atm id rather play civ 
JOIN US CHARRIU.
"Superdeath seems to have acquired a rep for aggression somehow. In this game that's going to help us because he's going to go to the negotiating table with twitchy eyes and slightly too wide a grin and terrify the neighbors into favorable border agreements, one-sided tech deals and staggered NAPs."
-Old Harry. PB48.
October 28th, 2018, 21:18
Posts: 777
Threads: 11
Joined: Apr 2012
I've never participated in a Pitboss so I'm a bit unsure as to how different things would be from a standard PBEM, but my recent EITB games have gotten me back into the groove of Civ so sure, let's try it out
Naturally, if there ends up being an abundance of interest that would necessitate limiting the number of players from the pool, I'm more than willing to cede a spot if need be.
October 28th, 2018, 23:06
Posts: 8,617
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(October 28th, 2018, 21:18)superjm Wrote: I've never participated in a Pitboss so I'm a bit unsure as to how different things would be from a standard PBEM, but my recent EITB games have gotten me back into the groove of Civ so sure, let's try it out
Naturally, if there ends up being an abundance of interest that would necessitate limiting the number of players from the pool, I'm more than willing to cede a spot if need be.
ONE OF US
"Superdeath seems to have acquired a rep for aggression somehow. In this game that's going to help us because he's going to go to the negotiating table with twitchy eyes and slightly too wide a grin and terrify the neighbors into favorable border agreements, one-sided tech deals and staggered NAPs."
-Old Harry. PB48.
October 29th, 2018, 00:34
Posts: 2,036
Threads: 9
Joined: Nov 2013
I think I can play this. However some changes seems weird to me. Ironclad is stupid slow unit to be relevant at whatever stage. And you make it even worse, huh? It has almost zero offensive potential with 2 movements considering it appears at the stage you dont often go to pillage seafood. 2x1 frigates deal with them fine. Not being able to enter ocean is more than enough imho.
I guess specific resource bonus cant be implemented to new industrial national wonders?
PRO, drill-4? Wow!?!?
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