Why wouldn't you use vertigo? It's great against the human particularly as the human tends to like individual units that are strong, instead of loads of strong units. Most realms aside from life don't have a lot of spells to boost strategic strength . Just having spell power and books does that, even if it doesn't help choose what battles they can initiate.
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Retort balance, hopefully last time
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It provides no strategic combat strength, no economic advantage, nothing.
We generally don't make the AI pick combat spells unless it's for common where we have many picks - combat spells don't work except against the human, and only 1 out of the 4 AI will fight the human early. (or 2, if they are extra aggressive) Also the AI already picked Confusion at common - Vertigo is a more cost effective spell but not that much better to waste an uncommon pick for that. Even Phantom Beast or Flight would offer more for the AI than that. (In particular the human tends to go for finishing battles quickly without losses using overwhelming force - Vertigo does absolutely nothing against that, while Confusion can at least kill units.)
One more idea :
What if Chaneller has the effect "Your books have an increased chance to contain combat spells." the same way Runemaster does for globals? There aren't that many higher tier combat spells in the game, so as is Chaneller is pretty much a chaos exclusive strategy - you pick guaranteed Flame Strike and you're good. At 2 picks it's hard to get the retort and the 10 books to have all spells. But if you could be 90% sure you'll get the very rare combat spells your realm offers, suddenly Chaneller becomes a lot more viable for all realms. Life could expect Supreme Light, High Prayer and Call to Arms among others, Death would get Massacre, Annihilate, Summon Demon, Nature would have Call Lighting, Entangle and Earth Elemental, etc. (we'd need to be careful how we define combat spell though, like, do we include Invulnerability or SUmmon Demon which are also castable overland.)
December 6th, 2018, 19:17
(This post was last modified: December 7th, 2018, 06:29 by zitro1987.)
What if channeler has the effect of increased chance to contain combat spells? That would be great, but make sure these spells are combat exclusive, not something like unit/city enchantments.
I'll vote that conjurerry also gets the increased chance, but for combat/overland summons.
"sorcery" isn't a retort and it's a "bad at summoning" realm as well.
Now, Runemaster's new ability clearly benefits the AI - globals are always scary when an AI has them, no matter which. This isn't true for Channeler. First of all, it only has an effect during battles against the human player - but those are the battles that decide the fate of the game, and pretty much every AI will fight the human at least once (if nothing else, while Spell of Mastery being cast by either of them.). Unfortunately, more combat spells do put the AI at an disadvantage vs other AI up until that moment - missing 2 picks is already bad but with this effect they'll have fewer summons, unit buffs, economy spells, etc. So I'm kinda unsure if the effect should apply to the AI, and if yes, the AI should restrict when to/not to pick the retort. One thing seems obvious - out of the wizard templates that have Channeler assigned, Death+Sorcery should most likely keep it - their combat spells are brutal and have good synergy so having a full set is amazing. However Chaos shouldn't - their guaranteed Flame Strike pick is more than enough to cover for their combat spell needs and getting overland spells is where Chaos becomes a threat (either globals, summons, or call the void, it's all in the overland spells. Combat spells are great too, but the others are even better.) so if the effect does apply to the AI then Chaos should get a different primary retort. Overall, AI with Nature books likely benefits - Call Lighting, Entangle, Petrify and Earth Elemental will appear more and they are all amazing, above average spells in the realm and the effect only takes up 2 picks per tier. AI with Death books also benefits - Massacre,Wave of Despair, Annihilate, Terror, Wrack and Animate Dead are all game changers while their noncombat spells aren't that great, especially now that city curses were nerfed. AI with Life gets Call to Arms, Supreme Light, High Prayer, Holy Word, Mass Healing and Exaltation - at least the very rares are definitely on par with the globals, the rares aren't that great but none of the Life rares are all that essential for the AI anyway. It only takes up 3 picks per tier too, which is not too bad and leaves room for other spells. Sorcery AI gets Banish, Air Elemental, Mind Storm, Mass Invisibility, Creature Binding and Haste. This is a mixed bag - Air Elementals and Mass Invisibility are extremely good, Mind Storm is strong and has good combo potential with other combat spells the retort makes likely to get - even within the realm : Mind Storm+Banish or Creature Binding guarantees the AI can counter all summons although sadly, half the very rares are immune to it. I'd say at rares this deal is worth it - although it does reduce chance of Storm Giants and Magic Immunity. At very rare however it's a poor deal - takes away precious chance to get the spells Time Stop, Djinn, Sky Drake, Spell Binding, all of which are better. For Chaos we already know it's bad - Disintegrate, Apocalypse and Warp Reality are very good spells but can't compete with having Call the Void, Armageddon, Chaos Surge, Great Drake, etc. However we also have that final safety net of rerolling the whole package if the AI didn't get at least something that allows them to win - so no matter how bad the retort is for the AI it won't end up in a hopeless state either. Based on the above I think the effect should apply to the AI, but the AI should avoid picking the retort under certain conditions (unsure which, help is welcome) and should be removed as the primary choice for mono-Chaos. Oh and the AI definitely should never pick Chaneller and Spellweaver together - as the latter applies to noncombat spells only.
So, thinking about the rules on Chaneller.
1. Maybe letting pure Chaos pick it isn't so bad. (as long as it's not the primary retort on the template) Flame Strike is good, but it's not that hard to use stacks that are immune to it. Apocalypse can fix that. Having Warp Reality is also a big deal - the AI is still very likely to have at least something that works with it. Disintegrate is kinda meh. At rare, 6 out of the 10 spells are combat spells anyway. Pure Chaos gets at least 8 rares anyway - they'll still have a creature although it might be Chaos Spawn. 2. Letting dual Chaos pick it is maybe okay. They won't get a high very rare count so having a good shot at Apocalypse is a great deal (Especially as they might miss Flame Strike, at there are 6 rares that are combat spells, which is too many even with the retort to get them all), and Disintegrate is a pretty useful standalone spell to have, too. Warp Reality is kinda wasteful - the AI likely won't have much Chaos creatures to use it for. However, getting improved spells in Life, Nature and Death more than makes up for that. Even if picked with Sorcery, it has a good chance to enable the gamewinning Mind Storm+Disintegrate, or Air Elemental+Flame Strike spam, or even the Magic Immunity (if 6 sorcery to guarantee it)+ Vortex combos. 3. Letting any mix of Life, Death and Nature is okay, as we've seen their combat spells are generally better than their overland spells or at least equal. 4. Pure Sorcery...probably shouldn't get it. It reduces their chance at getting the majority of the good spells, and with 7+ books their chance of getting the better end of the deal, the combat rares, is very high without the retort. In fact, the 2 picks if not spent, is another chance for rolling more Sorcery books. 5. Death/Sorcery has it for primary retort for a good reason, being vulnerable to wasting MP in combat, but it has amazing combat combos - Air elemental+Wrack, Mass Invisibility+Terror (-2 to hit on all enemies!), Mind Storm+any save or die spell, Mass Invisibility+spamming death magic while hidden, so getting more combat spells seems like a strong plan. Haste and Creature Binding are kinda wasteful on the Sorcery side though, and this does reduce the chance of the extra scary Great Unsummoning+Final Wave+Eternal Night combo to near zero. Overall definitely should be allowed to pick, but maybe we should consider letting the AI cheat here and roll a % chance of getting the unsummon+final wave combo if they play this pair of realms. (or, they still have a ~48% chance of not having Chaneller in which case they can randomly get that combo so maybe not necessary? It would come up only half as often as it does currently but that's still something at least. It's a bit sad those spells don't count as globals otherwise we could make Runemaster a secondary retort here and that would make sure the combo comes up often enough.) 6. Sorcery+Life, I think shouldn't pick it - Banish is redundant with Holy Word, summoning Air Elementals is redundant with Paladins, Life offers nothing for Mind Storm, Haste on buffed Life units is amazing though, as is Mass Invisibility, but taking away from the chance of getting buffs and globals really hurts here, reducing the chance for summons even more. This combination is generally about putting their superior economy into some late game big spell - time stop, sky drakes, archangels, whichever they can get. 7. Sorcery+Nature, a bit unsure - Haste is pretty scary on Nature summons and Call Lighting paired with the stall ability of Sorcery. But it does reduce the chance of getting creatures in both realms as well as magic immunity or regeneration to buff them. The creatures part is the problem as this template often has Conjurer. Still should be ok - the chance of picking the retort without it being part of the template is quite low. (probably no more than 5%) 8. Spellweavers should never pick it, obviously - getting fewer overland spells as a Spellweaver is a horrible gameplan, especially for 4 picks.
For the new Chaos primary retort, I think any of these could work well :
Sage Master (faster to late game) Runemaster (globals) Conjurer - Chaos creatures are actually pretty good Astrologer - and then we add one of the others as Secondary I intentionally skipped the already frequently used Archmage and Alchemy. I'm tempted to put Astrologer as primary as it is most flavorful and matches the "strong late" theme, plus allows the AI to use their powerful combat spells in every node which makes a difference early against the human. Secondary could be Sage Master as it clearly offers the most immediate benefit for the realm's strategies. (even for rushing gargoyles it's a huge bonus) Or we can do the same in the opposite order (sage first, astrologer second) which is even stronger for the AI? |