[Spoilers] Gröt and Bänzai lose several screws assembling a Sweedish Strategy

[Grotsnot]

Turn 5 time. A bit light on action screenshots, forgot to take 'em in between moves.

Turn opens with Denmark getting the first GG, Halfdan Ragnarsson, who gives a free Berserker. A lucky draw - I've often seen the first GG be a dude who gives a free promotion. Which is also useful, of course, but the zerker this early in the game is pretty sweet. They already have it headed toward Wolin:


Next up is Sviatoslav The Brave, who converts adjacent barbs. Kinda useful for us but usually the barbs don't have worthwhile units. If we could somehow get it fast enough to convert some Huscarls for Vikings maybe, but pretty unlikely. Hell, the Danes will probably get this one too. It's only Rus era despite the AIs being at Hastings so that's a mostly-pleasant surprise.



So with our units, the new Longship heads down to block Wolin. The Danes are pushing hard for it but we can slow them down a little and maaaaaybe even snipe it

Meanwhile we start beating the hell out of Apuole, pillaging their pasture and crabs along the way. Longship puts it under siege which is nice, but I had a brainfart and should have moved them one more space north before attacking. If I had it could have pillaged the fish and had enough movement left to attack Apuole again   Oh well, we'll have plenty of ships soon. And despite the walloping our Archer took (~55?) the combined efforts got the walls down low enough for them to stay and fight instead of fleeing



Opponent details:

Denmark started on a CH - less visibility on Norway so dunno what they're doing. They've been quiet for a little bit... 
Edit: Ha, derp, there's a Norwegian Encampment under construction right there in the screenshot


Don't think trade route values have changed at all




to no surprise, nobody blitzing GHA:

EOT Scores




And the chat log, not as able to cleanly break it up this time:

Banzailizard joined the chat.
Grotsnot: ouchie
Grotsnot: them pillages
Grotsnot: can replay the turn too just to demonstrate
Banzailizard: oh right this chat
Grotsnot: all right so anything important I miss with the catch-up?
Banzailizard: not really?
Banzailizard: looks like we just got blocked a bit
Grotsnot: yeah they stole our pillage
Grotsnot: turn order hosed us
Grotsnot: oww
Grotsnot: so an Apu unit suicided into us apparently
Banzailizard: weird
Grotsnot: yeah, have a promotion now
Banzailizard: did the danes get the GG?
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: and look Roskilde is converted
Grotsnot: Sviatoslav could be useful for us
Grotsnot: but damn it's a long way off
Banzailizard: what could?
Grotsnot: the next GG
Grotsnot: convert barbs
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: we doing any chipping with all these longships so closed to 1 turn?
Banzailizard: or next round of ships?
Grotsnot: would need to pause
Banzailizard: looks like the danes are going for Wolin
Grotsnot: I was guessing next round but my sketches have been proving too slow so far
Grotsnot: yep
Grotsnot: wow that's a jump for denmark
Grotsnot: +13gpt I think
Grotsnot: and +8 for the Norwegians. Ugh
Grotsnot: ohh the trade route policy
Grotsnot: dug
Grotsnot: duh*
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: everyone's up to 3 harbors
Banzailizard: what are we making?
Grotsnot: 2nd place
Grotsnot: w/ 44
Grotsnot: ah 53
Grotsnot: 55* even
Grotsnot: all routes lead to Odense this game, I bet
Grotsnot: not much incentive for us or norway to build an encampment
Banzailizard: looks like we got most of the pillages around Apu
Banzailizard: nice though
Banzailizard: that is another 11
Grotsnot: so yeah how to play apu
Grotsnot: they took off >50% of our archer
Banzailizard: can they kill it next turn?
Grotsnot: likely? If they did half. It was the walls
Grotsnot: so I guess if we can knock it down enough no
Grotsnot: worth the risk?
Grotsnot: we already got Portage boosted
Grotsnot: we can swing with two Zerkers on the city, the other one kills the archer
Banzailizard: the longship can attack as well
Banzailizard: we might even be able to get 2 longship attacks in
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: let's see where that leaves us oh HP
Grotsnot: if we want to we could sit in the water spot by Wolin though
Banzailizard: for all the units
Banzailizard: to do what?
Grotsnot: slow down the danes, maybe get a chance to snipe it
Grotsnot: so kill archer, pillage pasture, 2 slugs on the city to start off?
Banzailizard: I doubt it would slow them down
Banzailizard: only really a chance to snipe the city
Grotsnot: archer going first could save a small amount of HP on the followups
Banzailizard: if we are not cappturing Wolin
Banzailizard: let's  save the archer
Banzailizard: more is better for barbs and the ERE
Grotsnot: all right
Grotsnot: so gonna go with the zerkers then
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: no flanking bonuses yet so can wait on the boats
Grotsnot: almost forgot the pillage 8|
Grotsnot: ok so if the archer fires there won't be enough wall left to kill it
Grotsnot: not sure we need the 2nd boat
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: oh god dammit I fucked up the first boat
Grotsnot: it was supposed to go north one more
Grotsnot: ugh
Grotsnot: sorry
Grotsnot: been a day
Banzailizard: same
Grotsnot: hate pissy little mistakes that I'd just reload in SP
Grotsnot: like the damn trader last turn
Grotsnot: well I'm thinking have the archer shoot
Grotsnot: and send the other south to the coast by Wolin?
Banzailizard: the other boat?
Grotsnot: ADMF is gunning for it but doesn't have a lock yet
Banzailizard: I am ok with that
Grotsnot: I could go either way. Don't think we need it for Apu
Grotsnot: ohh
Banzailizard: works for me
Grotsnot: other Archer was the original referent
Grotsnot: so is sending them both south missing something stupid?
Banzailizard: sounds good to me
Grotsnot: ok cool
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: sorry, pissy little mistakes also really ramp up the paranoia factor before clicking anything >_<
Grotsnot: oh hi zerker
Grotsnot: holy shit under seige already
Grotsnot: danskjavlar
Grotsnot: we really got fucked by our lack of longships apparently
Grotsnot: also the turn order
Banzailizard: mayber there is a lag
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: there we go
Banzailizard: I had to push +15 sec
Grotsnot: oh and a barb up north, yay
Grotsnot: ahhh okay
Grotsnot: I'm thinking send the builder to Ladoga's farm?
Grotsnot: erm
Grotsnot: harbor
Grotsnot: and from there to a forest to chop
Grotsnot: or wait
Grotsnot: ladoga has builder under construction
Grotsnot: hmm
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: I was going to say
Grotsnot: is it worth the turns to send them west?
Grotsnot: we cannot harvest stones which sucks majorly
Grotsnot: like at all in VTR
Banzailizard: 2 charges left?
Grotsnot: it's weird
Grotsnot: yes
Banzailizard: how long to build another longship
Banzailizard: does the timing line up?
Banzailizard: also I need to head out soon
Grotsnot: doesn't say but I think 3t for the next one
Banzailizard: then send it north
Grotsnot: since we only overflow by one
Banzailizard: we want settlers chopped there anyways
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: ok yeah 3t I think lines up right with reaching a forest
Grotsnot: will go north
Grotsnot: can use the one under construction at the new cities
Grotsnot: ah right, portage or apprenticeship, hmm
Banzailizard: what does portage get us?
Grotsnot: no penalty for crossing rivers
Grotsnot: movement or combat
Banzailizard: might be more useful right now tbh
Grotsnot: might not even have the combat penalty right now actually
Grotsnot: yeah there are lots of rivers and mobility helps
Grotsnot: delaying Zerker production is iffy though
Banzailizard: for ERE conquest?
Grotsnot: unless we go in super hard for settlers right away
Banzailizard: I assumed we were to fill out the path to ERE
Grotsnot: yeah, and they just take a little while. 5-7t vs 2-3 for boats
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: We'll make it up by using those cities to build only zerkers
Grotsnot: so Portage and slam out some settlers until Apprenticeship finishes
Grotsnot: cool cool
Banzailizard: basically
Grotsnot: ah kop grew
Banzailizard: should we work the market for gold?
Banzailizard: or harbor for science?
Grotsnot: I'm inclined toward the forest for the cog because cogs are always good but haven't run any numbers on whether it would make a difference a
Grotsnot: I think we're okay on science
Grotsnot: market is a valid option
Banzailizard: why not do both?
Grotsnot: 5&6 pop is the same as far as amenities
Banzailizard: oh wait
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: work forest
Grotsnot: it does delay growth a turn
Banzailizard: then at 6 market
Grotsnot: once we hit 6 going market+lighthouse is solid
Grotsnot: then 6th will go on the forest, not too shabby
Banzailizard: 60 per turn
Grotsnot: yeah nice
Grotsnot: so is 2 turns of +1cog worth delaying the +6gpt by a turn
Grotsnot: I think so?
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: using the 4 to 1 ratio
Banzailizard: good exchange
Grotsnot: yep
Grotsnot: all right, so just remains whether to get in denmark's face at wolin
Grotsnot: I'm inclined to do so
Banzailizard: I mean whynot
Grotsnot: if it's under seige the extra hit from a boat could make the difference for them
Banzailizard: make them think a bit
Grotsnot: all right sweet let's do it
Grotsnot: christ how did they get all the way over there already
Banzailizard: looks like they are building something in ODense
Grotsnot: Roskilde actually, interesting
Banzailizard: guess its to boost the harbor
Grotsnot: might take them a while with the trader going to Kop
Grotsnot: damn they got a harbor in thetford already
Banzailizard: horway has a builder out
Grotsnot: what the hell kind of black magic are the danes up to
Grotsnot: ah yeah, probably chop on that lake, good catch
Grotsnot: haven't told us what they researched but smells like mead halls
Grotsnot: oh yeah wolin is like twice as tough as Apu
Grotsnot: we have a couple turns to maybe make something happen
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: unless their pike does something stupid I guess
Grotsnot: well, tells us nobody went straight to Shield Walls
Grotsnot: but not much else
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: I forgot about that boost
Banzailizard: for 6 military units
Grotsnot: we'll have it in time
Banzailizard: can we make that happen with appreticship in 4?
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: we want viking asap
Grotsnot: we've got 6-7 to go on Naval Empire and then another 6 to get the first half of MilTrad
Grotsnot: Miltrain*
Banzailizard: right
Grotsnot: worst case we buy a spear or something
Grotsnot: or shell out for buying a zerker
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: the GA bank seems DOA
Banzailizard: we'll make some back raiding
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: hopefully they don't manage to snowball too badly on that fron
Grotsnot: I'm worried the channel is gonna be packed with ships by the time our convoy gets there
Grotsnot: anyway I think we're set?
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: I'll log this for the thread
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: I have transcripts from the other turns just haven't gotten around to posting >_<

[Grotsnot]

Turn 6 was a momentous turn! We finished the first big wave of our fleet, took Apuole, and started out Settler wave!

Turns starts with a bunch of Longships getting us the boost for Great Heathen Army! GHA is an important tech since we'll need Battering Rams to beat the stuffing out of Byzantium. Also Denmark continues to leave us in the dust in the race for Wolin





After some tactical discussion on how to most efficiently take the city, Apuole is ours! We wanted to take the city with a Longship to get the Naval Empire booster since it'd take a good long while to get a lucky embarked unit kill. We also wanted to cram in as much pillaging as we could before taking the city - 100 and 60VP is better than a tile yield for a little bit. We'll be capturing a Builder from Apu after all.

So we have the new boat from Kopingsvik come burn the fishing boats and our southern Zerker burn a farm. Then, to take the city, we take advantage of the 4move Zerkers again - loving that ability - to cross the river and attack with a disadvantage against the city; don't want to risk a high RNG roll giving him the city! It goes as planned and then our other Longship swoops in and nets us a bevy of boosts

Additionally, Apuole comes with a Commercial Hub so we purchase a Trader in our new city. Double (quadruple now?) down on routes to Odense; still the only city with all 3 Districts

Finally, we send our remaining 'zerker over to go put some pressure on the Danish siege of Wolin. Better wrap it up ADMF or we're gonna take it! (Hindsight: I was incorrect about the movement rules - the UI was lying again but shoulda remembered better. The Berserker actually does get +2 embarked movement and had the option to attack Wolin next turn from the sea!)





(So many boosts!)

Chat logs - commentary on Wolin and Apuole:

Banzailizard joined the chat.
Banzailizard: there we go
Grotsnot: sweet
Banzailizard: in 5 min I need to go check on dinner
Grotsnot: hmmm
Banzailizard: then I have 10 min while it cooks
Banzailizard: ooh
Banzailizard: I don't think we are getting that
Grotsnot: ok cool can try to be quick
Grotsnot: lucky archer
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: yeahhh
Grotsnot: though worth keeping the boat around just in case
Banzailizard: so let's just take Apu and get it done
Grotsnot: looks like the one Zerker might be sufficient, at worst two
Banzailizard: longshipt frist
Grotsnot: so the 3rd could get a pillage
Grotsnot: oh?
Banzailizard: the zerkers are the only thing that can capture I think
Grotsnot: oh right if we have the longship finish it off we boost the civic
Grotsnot: longship can capture
Banzailizard: ah ok
Banzailizard: what are the odds for the longship alone?
Banzailizard: ok one zerker then a longship
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: thinking south of the river zerker so the other can promote? Can bring in a new longship since the current one can promote too
Grotsnot: so could pillage the fish and promote
Banzailizard: ok sounds good
Grotsnot: or delay the promotion and use the south zerker to pillage something
Banzailizard: use south zerker to pillage and pillage with the 1 longship
Grotsnot: or just run like hell to Wolin
Grotsnot: ok cool
Banzailizard: north zerker can attack apu
Grotsnot: north zerker I think will kill it alone
Banzailizard: new LS can finish Apu
Grotsnot: I like Helmsman for just about everyone
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: got a lot of sailing to do
Banzailizard: agreed
Grotsnot: oh shit that was dumb, shoulda hit first
Banzailizard: can it not reach?
Grotsnot: no it can just wasted moves if the RNG gives it to the zerker
Grotsnot: if we cross the river I think we could still attack?
Banzailizard: I don't think the RNG can
Banzailizard: I think that red bar is the max possible
Grotsnot: oh is it?
Grotsnot: I thought it was average
Banzailizard: yeah no idea actually
Banzailizard: brb though
Grotsnot: I'm leaning toward cross river and hit
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: crossing also saves us some time scrambling to wolin
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: yes cross the river
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: moved the boats as far toward denmark as we could while you were away
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: whew glad I had the mechanics on that crossing correct
Grotsnot: BAM
Banzailizard: perfect
Banzailizard: nice boosts
Grotsnot: head down south of the crab by wolin or cover Ladoga from barbs?
Banzailizard: barbs didn't move from last turn?
Grotsnot: one glitch I've noticed is that our dudes who have already gone this turn might still get the +2mv next turn
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: he might have been north? Lemme check the 'cap
Grotsnot: yeah it was 2 NE
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: we could have a zerker and an archer on the periphery of Wolin
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: I doubt we can get in there
Grotsnot: yeah so question is how many resources are worth spending on the attempt
Banzailizard: would it be better just to clear out russia?
Grotsnot: not sure
Banzailizard: do we get anything for killing barbs?
Banzailizard: GG points or anything?
Grotsnot: camp gold is about it
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: GG points
Banzailizard: ok maybe let's go take over russia
Banzailizard: and leave the boat parked there
Grotsnot: not worth even trying for Wolin with one of em?
Banzailizard: where would it attack from?
Grotsnot: oh right the +2mv is only land speed
Grotsnot: damn
Grotsnot: I was hopeful it could crawl along the coast up to our longship and attack from the sea
Grotsnot: it would force Archduke to wrap it up?
Banzailizard: maybe
Banzailizard: if you want to send a unit go for it
Banzailizard: I would just keep it out of range of the archer
Banzailizard: in the encampment
Banzailizard: let the danes take those arrows
Banzailizard: promote our archer to heal too
Grotsnot: ok, so how about send the zerker to wolin since it can get back faster, and send the archer east since it's not very useful vs the CS
Banzailizard: perfect
Grotsnot: ok awesome
Grotsnot: archer has one move before it promotes, head to the water?
Grotsnot: toward riga
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: every bit helps
Grotsnot: oh right or hold still and get a turn of healing
Grotsnot: I forgot that happens
Banzailizard: he can hold still in Riga
Grotsnot: sounds good
Banzailizard: would rather have him close to the barbs if needed
Grotsnot: volley of course, ja?
Banzailizard: volley
Grotsnot: figured

Next up did some city management

w/ chat log

Banzailizard: ok just production left?
Grotsnot: longship->settler in ladoga was what we talked about yesterday
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: still works
Grotsnot: production timer is perfect
Banzailizard: what is the econ policy tied to naval empier?
Grotsnot: I think we probably want the extra overflow cogs
Grotsnot: let's see, I think it's x2 harbors
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: huh when did the Inspiration icon get there
Grotsnot: patch?
Banzailizard: maybe?
Banzailizard: we'll have to calculate the value of 100% bonus vs the trade routes or builder one
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: knock out a 1t builder to chop settlers?
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: we have another trader availble too
Grotsnot: oh we could buy a trader in apu now
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: or anywhere
Grotsnot: apu lets us hit odense again
Banzailizard: yeah might not be bad in Apuole
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: yeah odense is still the only city with all 3
Grotsnot: could start on a longship but will need to pause to get a chopper up there
Grotsnot: but since we can't start on Zerkers yet might be worthwhile?
Banzailizard: what else would we build tbh
Grotsnot: Iunno settler, a horse
Grotsnot: CH maybe?
Banzailizard: chop out the settler
Banzailizard: oh right forget about that
Banzailizard: that one might be worth it
Banzailizard: we should at least put it down
Grotsnot: I dunno if a chop will 100% the settler
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: oh yeah before the cost goes up
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: well that's obvious location
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: I think with 8 turns we should get a settler out of here first for the wave
Banzailizard: dinner FYI but I think we are pretty much done?
Grotsnot: so prebuilding the longship?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: yeah just wrap this city and decide apu
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: get it started
Banzailizard: that CH is in an aweful spot
Banzailizard: wish it was across the river
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: then grnary
Banzailizard: and put a harbor base down
Grotsnot: due west I think for closer to skaggerack
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: works
Grotsnot: can site districts here too
Grotsnot: what do you think of harbor right next to it and CH on the river just south of that
Banzailizard: I think that is best
Banzailizard: only other option is to have harbor next to crabs and CH next to that but that costs gold
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: get the builder out repairing soon too
Grotsnot: and doesn't get the river bonus
Grotsnot: yep we captured one thankfully
Grotsnot: bitchin all 3 builds left
Banzailizard: north side frist I guess
Grotsnot: so without that salt we do need to be a little careful about pop now
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: riga maybe should slower growth?
Grotsnot: but the option is basically the crab
Grotsnot: oh or could steal a hill
Banzailizard: yeah that works
Banzailizard: apu does not need it at all
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: it has forests to the south if it needs the cogs
Banzailizard: ok good
Grotsnot: I think site the harbor at least. Do we think we can get a district discount or just site the CH too?
Banzailizard: and now I need to deal with dinner
Banzailizard: uhh maybe we can?
Grotsnot: all right
Grotsnot: DD might be more valuable for a new city

So here's where things stand after T6:







With a review of the baddies

and the rest of the log

Grotsnot: so whatcha thinkin re: Settlers? I took a midturn save and haven't ended turn yet since it's kind of a big deal if we do decide to
Grotsnot: we have about 480g and the first costs 160
Grotsnot: so I think the next will be 220
Grotsnot: so we can afford the total of 380 though it'll be a couple turns until we get more pillage monies
Banzailizard: how much for the next GA?
Grotsnot: over 2000, possibly over 2500
Grotsnot: lemme check...
Grotsnot: 2405 with this turn's GA points
Grotsnot: I think it's 15g/gpp?
Grotsnot: and we're gaining 3gap/turn
Banzailizard: what is everyone else at?
Grotsnot: denmark has 391g, 24gpt; norway 636, 47gpt
Grotsnot: we're at I wanna say 56 gpt, with another 11 coming online next turn with that new trader
Banzailizard: so are our odds for #2 good?
Grotsnot: it really depends on denmark and how much pillaging we're able to do on the other side
Banzailizard: basically how many VP do we think we can get for settlers and how amny for GA?
Grotsnot: hmmm
Grotsnot: well a city is worth 25
Grotsnot: citizens are worth I believe either 10 or 60 depending on religion mode
Grotsnot: so each city probably worth 200-300 over the course of the game?
Grotsnot: since each should get at least 1 or 2 Catholic pop growths
Grotsnot: hmm ok 300 is probably a high upper bound
Grotsnot: ballpark it at 200 each
Grotsnot: a city founded pre-religion and 1 pre-religion growth, followed by 3 religion growths is 195
Grotsnot: which I think with proper management we can swing
Grotsnot: hm. You know how settlers don't lose pop if your food meter is high enough to fill the post-settler food bar? I wonder if that still gives +50 points while Christian
Grotsnot: so the difference between 2nd and 3rd GAs is approximately 1 well-managed city
Grotsnot: the gap between 1st and 2nd is worth about 3 cities but I don't think we can beat Norway unless we bank on our opponents' incompetence
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: how quickly could we get those settlers down
Grotsnot: well I was thinking if we do, we'd get one in either Apu or Riga to go for the Truffles
Grotsnot: possibly push down to the Mercury if the escorts don't find camps in the way to slow them down?
Grotsnot: and if we got a 2nd, get one in Birka to go to Southern Finland
Banzailizard: and then gun hard for the ERE?
Banzailizard: I would say truffles then onto the black sea buy out some Longships raid the ERE
Banzailizard: for gold
Banzailizard: use that to buy bezerkers
Banzailizard: backfill the rest
Banzailizard: get religion
Banzailizard: and use that pop growth
Grotsnot: ahh yeah that's a good idea
Banzailizard: 2 plants one in kiev one on the black sea
Grotsnot: without the Salt from Wolin we need to get one of the luxes out there
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: then raid riad riad get religion
Grotsnot: and still chop out a few more?
Banzailizard: yeah chop out to back fill
Banzailizard: start moving the navy down asap
Grotsnot: all sounds good
Banzailizard: if we are going that way let's go hard as we can
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: seems that the chat in stream
Banzailizard: does nto keep the whole log
Grotsnot: oh?
Grotsnot: I have it in a text doc if you want it
Banzailizard: I was just going to post that and this conversation
Banzailizard: just to give the lurkers something
Banzailizard: even without pictures
Grotsnot: ahh gotcha
Grotsnot: yeah I have a backlog to post that I keep not getting around to because I keep telling myself I should add some commentary
Banzailizard: something is better than nothing I think
Grotsnot: yeah...
Banzailizard: unless you want to do a big post over the weekend or something
Grotsnot: that was the plan
Grotsnot: so it's about 20 turns' sail from Kop to Anatolia
Grotsnot: if we can go via the channel and don't stop to pillage
Banzailizard: what turn is it?
Grotsnot: and if we get helmsman it should shave off a couple
Grotsnot: it is T6
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: for comparison is it approximately 10 turns from Apu/Riga/Ladoga to the Black Sea
Grotsnot: walking
Grotsnot: could shave 1 or 2 with a road through the truffle swamp
Banzailizard: its worth a thought though it ties up a trader for a while
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: once we get Hacksilver we'll have plenty of traders to spare one
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: fyi I am flying out on the 13th
Banzailizard: on the 12th I am staying at the airport becuase my flight is at 6:30 am
Grotsnot: oof that sucks
Banzailizard: phone only those days
Banzailizard: proably going to get a laptop while I am back east but might be another day or two
Grotsnot: ok. I think we can have enough of a plan in place
Banzailizard: I do have steam on my phone though
Grotsnot: ah nice
Banzailizard: but wathcing a stream might be hard
Grotsnot: yeah wasn't sure if that worked or not
Grotsnot: but can at least use the basic chat
Grotsnot: for any big situations that pop up
Grotsnot: and I can also put things on imgur
Grotsnot: so what's the verdict on Settlers? It does allieve a little bit of amenity pressure if we buy out of the odd-pop cities
Banzailizard: yeah that sounds like a good plan
Grotsnot: all right
Grotsnot: Riga technically saves 1t of travel time in the best case scenario, but Apuole is closer to escorts and has an odd pop
Banzailizard: apu is fine
Grotsnot: ah damn
Grotsnot: can't there
Grotsnot: it has a builder in the CC
Banzailizard: all well
Grotsnot: I think Ladoga was about to build a pair off of boat chops, so I guess go with Riga?
Grotsnot: or wait, I guess
Banzailizard: ?
Banzailizard: we can get 2 off the boat chop?
Grotsnot: ah no, I meant that the builder has 2 charges
Grotsnot: could go longship-settler-longship-settler
Grotsnot: get those northern forests settled
Grotsnot: to chop out more stuff
Banzailizard: could buy settlers back home in sweeden to do that
Banzailizard: the ones chopped east should go south
Grotsnot: ah good point
Grotsnot: so on board to buy one in Birka for either southern finland or northern sweden?
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: we want to keep norway away
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: so yeah the 2nd settler would be 220, out of Riga
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: all right, think we're all set then
Grotsnot: I'll get that catchup post up tomorrow
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: maybe break it up into a few [ha. ha. ha.]

Turn 8 in the can today! Might be able to finish getting caught up on reports tomorrow but gonna be out for a big chunk of the day so probably won't get all the way caught up.

[Sullla]

These reports are fantastic! Thanks for providing so much detail for the readers. Sweden is the most unique of the three Viking starts in this game, and it's going to be interesting to compare your settler expansion to the more expected pillaging/raiding/capturing of Norway and Denmark in the upcoming turns.

[Grotsnot]

Thanks, I'm glad you like it! Sometimes it feels like I'm just vomiting up detail so it's nice that that's actually valuable

Here's the Turn 7 report, but then I've gotta roll. Real life on a weekend We did turn 9 earlier so I at least won't be falling further behind and can potentially knock out T8 later tonight.
Note: trying to write from the perspective of when we took the turn. Hindsight invalidates a fairly big assumption. Seeing as there's no deadlurkers you all already know what it is but I'll pretend it's a big deal to reveal at the end of the post

Turn opens to us finishing off Portage. Another valuable tech allowing all our units to ignore movement - and combat - penalties from Rivers. The map designers very much implemented the portage shtick in Russia, using artificial mountains to shepherd us down the mighty Dniper, so as Sweden Portage is especially valuable. As you can tell by both Denmark and Norway going for the tier 1 trio (Longships/Settlers/Berserkers) instead.





The big news in the wider world is Denmark adopting Christianity. On T7 I suspect this would be a bit of a dead weight at this stage, seeing as they're giving up the +100/pillage awfully early, but maybe they have a master plan. Here on Team Sen we're planning on flipping back into paganism at least once via settling new cities.


(can see at least 3/5 cities converted)



AND they conquered Tamworth! Which, referring back to the maps upthread, is the City-State in northern Wales. So they rolled due east from Thetford.


(Oh right we still need to go back and figure out what they spent their money on )

Can also see in the Religion view that Utrecht is getting totally recht () - will most likely fall next turn but we can hope for a surge in Caballarii. Bad news for Denmark to eat yet another city when they're already beating both Norway and us put together 



And to round out our opponent details:

With the logs of us reviewing them

Banzailizard joined the chat.
Grotsnot: all set?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: wicked here we go
Grotsnot: did they skip attacking wolin?
Banzailizard: looks like they went for the HRE unit
Grotsnot: I'm thinking send the Zerker 2 left and cover him with another longship
Grotsnot: but first we should probably tackle the C&D and city management
Banzailizard: chopping is going away soon fyi
Grotsnot: criminey twice our score
Grotsnot: yeah saw that
Grotsnot: mixed opinion
Grotsnot: was fun while it lasted but likely for the best
Banzailizard: but for this game it means we should chop everything now
Grotsnot: if we can keep up turn/day this'll be finished before the patch lands
Grotsnot: but yeah point against deliberately preserving forests for later
Grotsnot: oh hey we passed norway that's cool
Banzailizard: nice
Grotsnot: neither of them are any fun setting team names :P
Banzailizard: norway more like snoreway
Grotsnot: stalled a bit on this screen checking the previous turn's scores
Grotsnot: I don't think Snoreway has pillaged in either of the last 2 turns
Grotsnot: hopefully it's not Denmark beating them to the punch
Grotsnot: ah denmark didn't pillage either last turn, interesting
Banzailizard: maybe nothing left
Grotsnot: oh ha wait
Grotsnot: I'm dumb
Grotsnot: looking at the screenshot I literally just took
Banzailizard: ah k
Grotsnot: ok so that was SEVERELY incorrect
Grotsnot: well
Grotsnot: not severely
Grotsnot: Denmark pillaged 2
Grotsnot: Norway still no
Grotsnot: got mixed up flipping back and forth >_>
Grotsnot: woah 0 gold
Banzailizard: what did they spend on?
Grotsnot: what did they buy this time...
Banzailizard: alos they took a new city
Grotsnot: damnation did Utrecht fall already
Grotsnot: no...
Banzailizard: southern england
Grotsnot: Tamworth eh
Grotsnot: where is that
Banzailizard: and ultrech is going to fall soon
Grotsnot: yeah unless the caballarii rally
Grotsnot: so tamworth is north wales
Grotsnot: nearly due west of Thetford
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: interesting choice, perhaps because it's the only other CS on Britain that doesn't have an encampment to deal with?
Banzailizard: I think tis just taking lall of england cuts off norway a bit
Grotsnot: crapsacks, they have so many units they can fight Utrecht, Tamworth, and Wolin all at the same time o_o
Grotsnot: man not even any new gossip for snoreway
Grotsnot: oh one thing I was considering
Banzailizard: IDK if you know where the snoreway refrence was from
Grotsnot: we could offer Norway something like Furs for Furs
Grotsnot: no idea I just love portmanteus
Banzailizard: old flash video
Banzailizard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXtx9jPPsEo
Grotsnot: oh man Weebl!
Grotsnot: good times
Banzailizard: anyways
Grotsnot: ah yes
Banzailizard: so furs for furs would do what?
Grotsnot: so yeah since denmark has more points than Norway and us put together
Grotsnot: it seems to be A Thing over on the Civ 4 games to swap like-for-like as a gesture of goodwill
Banzailizard: I mean I am ok with it but we are all allies here
Grotsnot: yeah so it matters less since there are only indirect things we can do to slow down the Danes
Grotsnot: I dunno
Grotsnot: just a general principle of "screw with the Danes, not each other" might be in our best interests
Grotsnot: but if they start muscling in on our expansion clay that would be hard to stick to :P
Banzailizard: I mean no harm trying
Grotsnot: all right let's do it
Grotsnot: awww
Grotsnot: 6 doesn't allow it
Grotsnot: lame
Grotsnot: could do gold for gold I guess but the numbers could be construed as information so maybe should just let it go?
Banzailizard: ok well lets move on
Grotsnot: all right

Let's see... as far as city management, Kopingsvik finished it's 1T Builder to go up and chop a Longship into a Settler (while we can take advantage of the overflow mechanics!) Riga finishes a boat and Apuole repairs their Water Mill, both start on Harbors.





Also, with Denmark turning religious, we decide to forego a little bit of gpt to get some religious influence going in Apu by sending our trader to Ribe instead of Odense. As our 4th trader, this gets us yet another boost - this time for Hacksilver





As for movements, we send our settlers and Berserkers east, mob the Longships west, and up our disruption down in Wolin. One nice little detail is Norway's trader is saving us a turn on our chop





Rest of the chat logs, bounced around a bit between city management and units and a couple delayed noticings of stuff Norway & Denmark have been up to

Grotsnot: queued up Apprenticeship
Grotsnot: debatable whether we'll want to go back to Knarrs after that or knock out Shield Walls first so we can start on Huscarls for the Vikings Ci
Banzailizard: what does knarrs get us?
Grotsnot: travel over oceans
Banzailizard: unless we plan to go for Vineland VP, which is a maybe now with danemark broke, vikings is better
Grotsnot: handy for navigating around our opponents' boats in the north sea and a shortcut to gibraltar
Banzailizard: oh thats right
Grotsnot: we've got a couple turns to decide, just something to think about
Grotsnot: oh hey
Grotsnot: thank you for that road norway!
Grotsnot: we can chop next turn instead of in 2
Grotsnot: so Kop can start a longship and chop it into a settler next turn
Banzailizard: great
Grotsnot: Ladoga will too so we'll need to make sure we do the correct one first
Grotsnot: what about Riga and Apu? Get cracking on the Harbors?
Grotsnot: eesh 6 turns and 7
Banzailizard: not much esle to do there though
Grotsnot: riga is stuck with slowbuild but we could maybe chop down in Apu
Banzailizard: and Apu will improve with repairs
Banzailizard: repair that pasture
Grotsnot: yeah especially without Zerkers to start on
Grotsnot: o7
Grotsnot: woo down to 5
Grotsnot: once Riga regrows and can work the hill again that'll shave off a turn or two as well
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: turn of growth or turn of Harbor
Banzailizard: harbor
Grotsnot: all righty
Grotsnot: so I think the citizens are fine?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: the extra cog in Ladoga maybe isn't needed but every little bit helps with the settler
Grotsnot: so builders heading to forests is pretty straightforward
Banzailizard: do we want to start getting religion?
Grotsnot: I wish there was a tooltip for what a chop is worth somewhere before you actually have a builder ready to chop
Grotsnot: we will yeah, before we get too many cities
Banzailizard: Ribe could eb worth it
Banzailizard: even if we are giving up a little gold
Grotsnot: hmmm
Grotsnot: have we not gotten any influence from our pillages?
Banzailizard: what kind of influence?
Grotsnot: religious
Grotsnot: oh hey
Grotsnot: Denmark has a religion
Banzailizard: I think we need to pilliage holy sites
Grotsnot: no more pillage golds for you! >
Grotsnot: oh that makes sense yeah
Grotsnot: or monasteries
Grotsnot: ok so military and settlers
Grotsnot: ugh
Grotsnot: north barbs
Grotsnot: annoying
Banzailizard: ah
Grotsnot: so from Birka, south finland and northern sweden are both 4 turns to settler
Banzailizard: I see them now
Grotsnot: north sweden has risk of getting eaten
Banzailizard: ok south finland then
Grotsnot: and aside from the iron and 2nd-ring deer is kinda crappy
Grotsnot: ok cool
Grotsnot: cripes another barb camp
Grotsnot: well guess we're sending these two zerkers northeast eh?
Banzailizard: why?
Banzailizard: oh I supose
Banzailizard: I was thinking that was more due east
Grotsnot: or double down on Wolin I guess
Grotsnot: ah yeah true
Grotsnot: I was thinking at least one should escort the settler
Grotsnot: could split off one to go due east and scout
Banzailizard: I think that would be best
Banzailizard: get an idea where the barbs actualyl ar
Banzailizard: e
Grotsnot: let's see how crap is the terrain along the carpathians...
Grotsnot: if we follow the mountains there'll be a forest, a brief patch of plains, and then the big swamp and a bunch of foothills
Banzailizard: we shoudl follow the shortest path
Banzailizard: we know what is there but we want to kknow where the barbs are
Grotsnot: shortest time or shortest tiles?
Grotsnot: taking the grassland hill around the swamp is slightly faster
Banzailizard: time
Grotsnot: ok so I'm thinking fullhealth goes to the hill, injured one moves next to Riga and promotes
Banzailizard: sounds good
Grotsnot: settler will have to stall a turn I think
Grotsnot: oh hey a camp
Grotsnot: easy noms
Grotsnot: I'm leaning battlecry since Commando is pretty sweet
Grotsnot: Tortoise is nice for seiges but amphibious is wholly redundant
Banzailizard: yeah battle cry is best
Banzailizard: lets just get the longboats out to the ocean
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: no reason to hang around
Banzailizard: leave one without helmsman at wolin
Grotsnot: we can have the two by Apu take up positions at wolin
Grotsnot: let the one there get out to sea
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: WOAH WHAT
Grotsnot: zerker why can you attack
Banzailizard: ship in the way?
Grotsnot: we shouldn't
Grotsnot: but nice to know we can
Banzailizard: oh it can attack
Grotsnot: nah I'm just surprised that he got the +2 move while embarked I didn't think that was a think
Banzailizard: ah yeah that is good to know
Grotsnot: ah right, Ribe or Roskilde
Banzailizard: let's go for religion
Grotsnot: all right
Banzailizard: we want religion in russia
Banzailizard: brb
Grotsnot: I suspect 0.5 is gonna be marginal but worth a try since we want to get a bunch of cities down
Grotsnot: oo hacksilver boost neat
Grotsnot: had the settler pop out for some minor scouting
Grotsnot: so to wrap up, I'm thinking send the Archer into Riga, bring the Settler back to Riga, and kinda leaning toward sending the other Archer ba
Grotsnot: don't think there's anything we need to buy this turn
Banzailizard: back
Banzailizard: what does hacksilver do?
Grotsnot: it's after Knarr
Grotsnot: doubles the TRs from harbors and CHs
Banzailizard: the number or amount of income from?
Grotsnot: number
Banzailizard: wow that is good
Grotsnot: yeah!
Banzailizard: we could really use that to spread religion after we pillage some more
Grotsnot: ahh there's an idea
Grotsnot: nice
Grotsnot: so thoughts on the archers?
Banzailizard: yeah send it to wolin
Banzailizard: we'll see if we can grbab it
Grotsnot: >:D
Grotsnot: staying out of range
Grotsnot: I don't think the heal up here is necessary
Grotsnot: pop into Riga to shoot next turn and get some xp
Banzailizard: works for me
Grotsnot: sweet
Grotsnot: oh right we finished Portage
Grotsnot: the others did not get a tier 2
Banzailizard: teir 2 tech you mean
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: they got Longships/Mead Halls/Apprenticeship
Grotsnot: and yeah Denmark got Monotheism. Will need to check the numbers for whether they got it *after* conquering Tamworth
Grotsnot: but them not getting the +100 golds for at least a little while is very nice
Banzailizard: agreeed
Grotsnot: still no boat kills for them
Grotsnot: unless Denmark took Thetford with a longship
Grotsnot: would mean they don't have Naval Empire boosted yet
Grotsnot: though they absolutely boosted Military Training by now
Grotsnot: but still a nice small advantage for us
Banzailizard: agreed
Banzailizard: I think they wanted to take Wolin by boat which is good to keep blocking them on
Grotsnot: >:D
Grotsnot: so I think we're all done. yeah?
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: nice job on the posts btw
Grotsnot: thanks!
Grotsnot: gonna get the rest done tomorrow
Grotsnot: have 4 partway done but it got late
Grotsnot: eventually we'll be able to have actually quick turns :P
Grotsnot: I think I overhedge and overvalidate to avoid feeling like I'm just leeroy jenkinsing it
Banzailizard: I think we are doing fine so far
Banzailizard: we have a plan
Grotsnot: yup yup
Grotsnot: all right I gotta clock out. Good turn!
Banzailizard: sounds good

Will leave you all the big news from Turn 8!

[Banzailizard]

I appreciate that you keep posting these too. I'll have to find another way to contribute more to this thread. I could always make score graphs or something. Might actually be helpful here.

[Banzailizard]

Well here is my paltry contribution to this thread (at least for now, maybe latter we can discuss long term strategy here) some score graphs.  Denmark is just whipping ahead, mostly thanks to religion. We are not even leading in our supposed main category of empire score. Hopefully that will change soon once we get some pillaging out.  Anyways wanted to get these out before talking big picture since big picture should be all about where we are going to get points to score from.

[Grotsnot]

Nice!! And yeah we gotta get us some pillaging to catch up on those Religion points

With a two-turn day yesterday I'm falling further behind so gonna rush through a little bit so we can eventually talk about contemporary stuff

T8 - Big news: it's been Norway eating Utrecht not the Danes   Good stuff Norway - keep the Danes from expanding too hard We're doing our part in Wolin with what will become a prolonged starting contest going on.

So we've got the siege competition in the south, fleet heading west, and Settlers heading east. Gonna beat up what will no doubt be the first of many Russian barb camps along the way. Also we +100% chop a Longship into a Settler at both Kopingsvik and Ladoga. Birka pauses theirs until the Builder gets up there to chop for it - the arrival will time perfectly with us finishing Naval Empire to do the chop and then switch policies over to Feudal Contract to get +50% toward Zerkers.



Gonna skip the opponent detail screens for 8&9 - y'all can go check their threads If I can dig out enough time I'll compile some sort of timeline. And the city statuses haven't changed enough to be that interesting - we'll check back in with them at the T10 roundup.

Our transcript for the interested

Banzailizard joined the chat.
Grotsnot: BEHOLD
Banzailizard: ok there we go
Grotsnot: ROARWEGIAN UTRECHT
Grotsnot: mwahahahahaha
Banzailizard: interesting
Banzailizard: did they snipe it or did they actually just go all out?
Grotsnot: though while I enjoy Denmark getting a kick in the pants it does make their Vinland VPs are more of a threat
Grotsnot: I'm suspecting all out
Grotsnot: since denmark had enough resources to go after Wolin and Tamworth
Grotsnot: though the Wolin ones are curiously absent
Banzailizard: wait so maybe we can grab Wolin?
Grotsnot: not enough combat units this turn but it is a possibility!
Banzailizard: excelent
Grotsnot: that pike in the city makes it a lot more resilient than Apu was
Grotsnot: So this is what I drew up for units and city management
Banzailizard: ok but let's get settled east
Grotsnot: Simple:
*  Eastern Zerkers advance on barb camp, settler joins the promoted one
*  Archer advances and shoots (for minimal damage but gains
Grotsnot: oh god dammit it got cut off [Unfortunately I no longer have the full text either ]
Banzailizard: no
Grotsnot: screw you steam
Banzailizard: I can expand
Grotsnot: ok neat
Banzailizard: ended with "Relocate Wolin Archer? Disembark the Zerker to block a land tile? Would scout a bit but leave a little vulnerable to any Caball
Banzailizard: right?
Grotsnot: aye
Banzailizard: join the promoted one where?
Grotsnot: next to the stone and huscarl
Grotsnot: with the other zerker on the sheep
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: archer shoots housecarl?
Grotsnot: yeah for lack of anything better to do
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: could heal but exp I think is better
Grotsnot: and staying with the group
Banzailizard: ok on the settler
Banzailizard: cho[
Banzailizard: chop*
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: gonna execute chops, eastern zerkers, eastern settler, and eastern archer
Banzailizard: the boats now though they can only attack once then they are stuck right?
Grotsnot: correct
Banzailizard: eh nvm I was thinking we should hold one back but we will have so many out it barly matter
Banzailizard: s
Grotsnot: chops sadly will not 1-turn settlers but 2-3 is still solid
Grotsnot: yeah and we have more new ones from Ladoga and Kop
Grotsnot: we'll be at 8 at EOT
Grotsnot: 9 next turn if we don't pause Birka
Banzailizard: do we have a military production card?
Grotsnot: Maritime Industries
Grotsnot: for these chops
Banzailizard: yeah what is the one for melee though
Banzailizard: becuase we will want that for zerkers
Banzailizard: and if we switch to it in 3 turns with naval empier
Banzailizard: lining up the chop is not so helpful
Grotsnot: yeah that's what I was thinking
Grotsnot: ohh for Birka
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: the timing might work out to chop and then switch policies
Banzailizard: will it though?
Banzailizard: one move north
Banzailizard: then 2 into the city
Banzailizard: 3 chop
Banzailizard: I guess it could
Banzailizard: chop inot a settler?
Banzailizard: oh wait
Banzailizard: maybe
Banzailizard: chop into a zerker
Banzailizard: switch to the 50% bonus then
Grotsnot: or that!
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: ok so gonna run those few things unless any objection
Banzailizard: sounds good
Grotsnot: 2t and 3t not bad. The 3 might be 4 after Kop's finishes
Grotsnot: ok and then the settler has to move over to the forests to found the city
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: so I'm thinking stay embarked to avoid any barb shenanigans
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: oh right I didn't show you the baddies yet
Banzailizard: what am I looking for?
Banzailizard: just at the gosip in general?
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: not a whole lot going on other than Utrecht. Norway may have spent a bit of coin
Grotsnot: need to review the old turns
Grotsnot: so let's get some eyes on skaggerack, the fun times going on over there
Banzailizard: lets get sailing
Grotsnot: kind of them to give us a safe route to the channel
Grotsnot: just leave one by Wolin or 2? We do have a new one from Ladoga coming down
Banzailizard: just the one
Grotsnot: o7
Banzailizard: we will have mmore soon
Grotsnot: yup!
Grotsnot: so yeah I think the timing works to chop before swapping in from Naval Empire
Grotsnot: what should we put turns into
Grotsnot: Settler or CH?
Banzailizard: oh right CH
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: yeah CH is better
Grotsnot: you think?
Banzailizard: IDK actually
Grotsnot: well it depends on what we're gonna chop into
Grotsnot: if we go for the zerker then yeah CH
Banzailizard: ah you mean to swtich to
Banzailizard: yeah work the CH
Banzailizard: we want settlers over in ruissa
Banzailizard: not so much here
Grotsnot: all right. There is the bothnian coast but that's fairly marginal
Grotsnot: in Russia we'll have a couple chops but probably gonna have to purchase a lot of settlers
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: anything else?
Grotsnot: What to do with Apu builder and the Wolin dudes
Grotsnot: repairing the farm is kinda marginal since it's a food-only tile
Banzailizard: repair the crabs?
Banzailizard: or build a mine?
Banzailizard: wait
Banzailizard: we might want the farms
Grotsnot: hmm mine is an option. I was leaning crabs too
Banzailizard: for fudialism
Grotsnot: hmmm
Banzailizard: I think the boost is the same here
Grotsnot: already boosted
Banzailizard: ah
Grotsnot: oh yeah wow we started with that boost
Grotsnot: 2 farms per city
Grotsnot: so crabs -> farm -> chop something?
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: I think probably have the Archer stick in their current spot
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: Zerker could land and block a tile but who knows what's in the fog
Banzailizard: lets go for it
Grotsnot: leeeeeroy
Grotsnot: ah bastards are gonna make us patch the salt if we take it
Grotsnot: but no baddies and it's under siege so that's all good
Grotsnot: I suspect wolin is gonna survive a little while since neither of us wants to weaken it for the other
Grotsnot: we may want to buy a zerker in kop next turn to come help
Banzailizard: I would be ok with that
Banzailizard: why not this turn?
Banzailizard: oh right tehc
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: work the HC?
Banzailizard: CH*
Grotsnot: yeah I like that
Grotsnot: stick to food with the other so we rebound back to 6 quickly after the settler?
Banzailizard: yeah harbor too
Banzailizard: nah for now work the harbor
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: and swithc back when settler is out
Grotsnot: I think that was our only pop growth
Grotsnot: ah no point working the ex-forest tile here in Ladoga
Grotsnot: sheesh this CH is gonna take an annoying number of turns
Banzailizard: should we have no planted it
Banzailizard: until harbors were done?
Grotsnot: nah it's more valuable to get the discount in Russia where there's less cogs to be had
Banzailizard: ok I need to go run some errends
Grotsnot: yeah I think we're done here
Grotsnot: gonna pass the save
Grotsnot: oh shoot we're on denmark's harbor. Hope they didn't need to build a unit there >_>
Grotsnot: they have the CC at least

T9:
We get Apprenticeship and can start building Bersekers We clear the camp out east instead of killing another barb so that we can afford to buy a Zerker right away in Kopingsvik, to get down to Wolin and break the stalemate.

Fleet continues west, Settlers continue east. Cities continue building districts.
Rouen is getting the shit kicked out of it and Eoforwic is starting to get attacked. One of our boats discovers it's Danes at the latter, but we can't see Rouen yet (spoilers that's Denmark too )





and transcript

Banzailizard joined the chat.
Grotsnot: ok so note list:
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: steam seems to be eating it
Banzailizard: yeah I do not even see a way to expand this time
Banzailizard: just go one by one
Grotsnot: Norway has a Settler in Utrecht
Grotsnot: Denmark finished Military Training already - 2t ahead of us on culture somehow. Also Portage
Banzailizard: sounds like it will go west then
Grotsnot: Denmark also has both our and Norway's scores put together Crapload of Religion VPs
Grotsnot: ^yeah thankfully
Grotsnot: Someone eating Rouen - would guess Danes but after Utrecht could go either way
Grotsnot: Eoforwic also under attack. Hopefully by the other player than Rouen
Grotsnot: Our lead ships will likely find out Rouen, could take a small detour with 1 to check Eof
Banzailizard: we will get a ton of relgious vp soon
Grotsnot: :D
Grotsnot: hopefully more than them :P
Banzailizard: another reason to settle down the middle then backfiill
Banzailizard: we can get more VP that way
Grotsnot: Eastern squad has some decisions to make. Thinking kill the Sword and injured Huscarl - EXP, freedom of movement, & GGPs now and the camp i
Banzailizard: can you move back that way
Grotsnot: sure
Banzailizard: no no I meant back to the east
Grotsnot: ohh ok
Banzailizard: you move as I  was typing
Grotsnot: musta been a delau
Banzailizard: moved*
Grotsnot: gotcha
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: Zerker costs 320g, we have 289
Banzailizard: then get the camp
Banzailizard: there will be other barbs, there is only one Wolin
Grotsnot: all righty
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: then thinking kill the sword to keep the archer safe
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: move him ne and shoot, have the Zerker finish it off
Grotsnot: other zerker can tank a couple huscarl hits in the camp if they focus - hopefully they'll derp around a bit and split
Banzailizard: I think when the camp dies they go supper agressive
Grotsnot: ahh that would make sense
Banzailizard: I've had scouts suicide on me before
Grotsnot: all right so that resolves another question. Was wondering if buying the deer up in ladoga to save a turn on the settler was worthwhile but
Banzailizard: and not worth it anywasy
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: again wolin is more useful
Grotsnot: Settle Helsinki one turn sooner or one tile east? East is better for land units, west better for Longships. Have basically the same tiles a
Grotsnot: is the rest
Banzailizard: chop into a district?
Grotsnot: Birka?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: hmm that could work
Grotsnot: it does look awful slow
Banzailizard: we only need a few settlers to go get a path to ERE
Grotsnot: true
Grotsnot: let's see we have finland, truffles, mercury, and odessa
Grotsnot: so current builds get us the corridor
Banzailizard: Helzinki: go east we have enough longships in the north lets get units out
Grotsnot: ok, I agree but wasn't sure if it was worth the 1t delay
Banzailizard: not much of a delay
Grotsnot: also: Shield Wall next, aye?
Banzailizard: what new tech to get
Grotsnot: jinx
Banzailizard: that or Knarrs
Banzailizard: we have a shot at a GA now
Grotsnot: kinda
Banzailizard: with the danes converted and broke
Grotsnot: ah true
Banzailizard: can we get the timing right though
Grotsnot: the Huscarls are needed for the Viking civic
Banzailizard: right and how long will it take to build them, how long do we have before we need the boost?
Banzailizard: 6 turns at least before we need the boost
Grotsnot: 60 production, 5 or 6 turns for Military Training, 2 turns for current civic
Grotsnot: oh and we can half-fill vikings along the way
Banzailizard: ok so 8 total turns
Banzailizard: right
Banzailizard: so 16 turns
Grotsnot: so like 15 is a pretty safe margin
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: Knarrs'll be what, 4?
Banzailizard: how long to get knarrs and housecarls?
Banzailizard: 2 for housecarls
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: 3.5
Grotsnot: true, dunno if the half will make the difference
Banzailizard: how long until we can buy a GA if we go that way?
Banzailizard: may not matter
Grotsnot: well if we buy a zerker it's gonna be a while
Banzailizard: we have little gold
Grotsnot: the channel is looking picked pretty clean
Banzailizard: hmm yeah, only other benifit of Knaars is getting down to the med faster
Grotsnot: so depends on if we're the first ones to make a break for Iberia
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: it does help with that though
Banzailizard: so can we get knaars then sheild wall and build 2 housecarls before vikings?
Grotsnot: there's also some good pillage on the west coast of france and north coast of spain
Banzailizard: or can we do all that in 15 turns?
Grotsnot: so we'd have ~9t to build the Huscarls. Doable but requires prioritizing
Banzailizard: chops?
Grotsnot: potentially
Grotsnot: we do have that in our back pocket
Banzailizard: what does the GA situation look like?
Grotsnot: norway halfway
Grotsnot: oh denmark got a boat kil
Grotsnot: grr
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: how many points per turnf or each of us?
Banzailizard: 5 norway 4 for each of us
Grotsnot: 5 norway, 4 us&danes
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: so at this rate the danes will win unless we sink in a lot of gold
Banzailizard: ok so considerign the alternative what do housecarls do?
Grotsnot: or get lucky and pick something off with our boats
Banzailizard: like if we build them sooner how useful are they
Grotsnot: mm not a whole lot. Mildly tanky
Grotsnot: decent at barb patrol duty
Banzailizard: hmm so some slight bovement or a few tanky units
Banzailizard: movement*
Grotsnot: I think if we want to play for the GA the movement pays off
Grotsnot: lemme check the thread maps for how much of Biscay is coastal vs ocean
Banzailizard: that will be helpful
Grotsnot: ok so there's just enough coast to not bottleneck but oceancrossing is a 1.5-2t shortcut
Grotsnot: there are a lot of pillageables in the elbow. Like 8ish if you're liberal in how large you consider the elbow region :P
Banzailizard: hmm hmm
Grotsnot: so shortcut is nice but not having it could be profitable - IF we get there first
Banzailizard: the housecarls would help with wolin too
Grotsnot: hmm maybe
Banzailizard: ok lets go sheildwall then
Banzailizard: and get those housecarls out chop into them
Grotsnot: I was kinda expecting Wolin to be wrapped before housecarls could arrive but with the standoff who knows
Banzailizard: use that feature while it lasts
Grotsnot: ah yeah that's a decent plan for Birka
Grotsnot: they have a 'rax
Banzailizard: right
Grotsnot: Apu and Ladoga will both be finishing builds at the right time to start too
Grotsnot: ok good plan
Banzailizard: then knarrs
Banzailizard: does moving another east help?
Grotsnot: moved the settler an extra tile east for flexibility
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: should we try to damage wolin or wait?
Grotsnot: can still land at helsinki but wastes less time if we decide to send them south instead for some reason
Grotsnot: hm
Banzailizard: good plan
Grotsnot: Denmark has 2 zerkers
Banzailizard: archer zerker and LS not enoguh I take it
Grotsnot: very doubtful - Wolin still has the pikeman puppyguarding the base
Grotsnot: realizing Apu suiciding theirs was quite the stroke of luck
Grotsnot: I think throwing everything at Wolin would kill most of the wall
Banzailizard: leaving it open for the danes
Banzailizard: ok we will wait
Grotsnot: if we're buying a zerker I think just wait
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: the archer would be a good option if it didn't require wandering into the encampment's line of fire
Banzailizard: it will be ok for a final assult
Grotsnot: ok I think we've got just about everything planned out. Wanna move some boats?
Banzailizard: lets move south frist
Banzailizard: see if that changes our plans
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: move one of those up
Grotsnot: grrr blocker :P
Banzailizard: move one more
Grotsnot: pop north? To get out of the archer's range?
Grotsnot: or eat the hit for exp
Banzailizard: ok not a full traffic jam
Grotsnot: thankfully
Banzailizard: uhh
Grotsnot: "yet" :P
Banzailizard: north
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: we want trouble for the danes and norwegens
Banzailizard: not giving them free help
Grotsnot: wanna poke out at Eof or gun south
Grotsnot: true!
Banzailizard: Eof?
Grotsnot: Eoforwic - I think geographically York
Banzailizard: oh didn't see that
Grotsnot: see who's poking at its walls
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: information is helpful
Grotsnot: or go sit on Thetford's harbor
Banzailizard: lets learn what we can
Grotsnot: looks like Norway
Grotsnot: worth going north to confirm?
Banzailizard: lets be sure
Grotsnot: o7
Grotsnot: ahahah I was wrong
Banzailizard: indeed
Grotsnot: ouch those zerkers have taken a beating
Banzailizard: dont know if the LS shelters them
Grotsnot: it should
Grotsnot: ok and then conga line down to utrecht
Banzailizard: yup
Grotsnot: don't think there's enough value in scouting scotland
Banzailizard: not really
Banzailizard: maybe let the one going north go arround
Banzailizard: and join back up
Grotsnot: ah that could work
Banzailizard: just so we can keep an eye on who is up to what
Grotsnot: avoided the coast because Frankish archers
Grotsnot: good point
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: ah one more
Banzailizard: 2 more
Grotsnot: leave the one by Wolin I assume
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: bleh something with the hotseat save keeps jacking with my "don't autocycle units" setting
Grotsnot: ok so sword and camp was the decision, aye?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: and settler sticks with the zerker
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: safest place
Grotsnot: no new friends
Grotsnot: dunno if good or bad :P
Banzailizard: builder south? or west to help chop?
Grotsnot: oh hey we can mildly spy on norway
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: I was talking about the builder in russia
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: finland chop?
Banzailizard: south for truffles
Grotsnot: or that yeah
Banzailizard: or
Grotsnot: we could buy a south builder if we want to
Banzailizard: we could send Apu's builder
Banzailizard: for 1 truffel
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: or do we want to hold off on the truffesl
Banzailizard: until religion
Banzailizard: use that as a way to regulate our growth
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: we'll lose some production to unhappiness perhaps too
Grotsnot: but decent option
Grotsnot: ah cleared the camp let's buy the zerker
Banzailizard: biulder west to chop I would say lets get those housecarl
Banzailizard: we can decied about the truffles latter
Grotsnot: oh cool suprise boost
Grotsnot: GAH
Banzailizard: I thought we knew?
Grotsnot: damn you clicks
Banzailizard: well
Banzailizard: repair while there I guess
Grotsnot: at least he can patch the farm :/
Grotsnot: sorry
Banzailizard: eh
Banzailizard: maybe we will have him chop?
Banzailizard: also do not appologize for the UI
Banzailizard: its aweful
Grotsnot: hmm yeah that could work
Grotsnot: hahaha
Grotsnot: it really is
Grotsnot: this autocycle glitch is bugging the crap out of me
Grotsnot: ok so just this builder left
Banzailizard: wow didn't see it but we are making 64 per turn, not too bad
Grotsnot: :D
Banzailizard: how long for the zerker to get to Wolin?
Grotsnot: unfortunately due to Norway's T1 shenanigans we don't have any more forests back in Sweden proper
Grotsnot: 2t to the longship, can attack on the 3rd
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: so chop in Finland?
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: get the housecarls out
Grotsnot: o7
Banzailizard: get the boost
Banzailizard: vikings
Banzailizard: ???
Banzailizard: profit?
Grotsnot: :D
Grotsnot: think we're set, yeah?
Banzailizard: looks like norway is bascially causing the danes to more or less giv us wolin
Banzailizard: for fear of loosing the west
Grotsnot: >:D
Grotsnot: they've left enough dudes around to make it tricky
Banzailizard: yes enough to swoop in if RNG is bad
Grotsnot: can only hope Wolin hurts one of the injured ones to chase it away
Grotsnot: oo named unit
Banzailizard: right all set then
Grotsnot: all right interested in the diplo details before I wrap it?
Grotsnot: I have screencaps already
Banzailizard: not really, not much has changed has it?
Grotsnot: not really no
Grotsnot: saw the danes finished a civic from the gossip
Grotsnot: but that's about it
Banzailizard: alright I think we are fine then
Grotsnot: oh hmm, I wonder if there are pillages that give culture
Banzailizard: also norway is proably ahead
Grotsnot: that could account for the 2t civic lead
Grotsnot: ahead?
Banzailizard: because they got past the 999 turn ones
Banzailizard: faster
Grotsnot: ohhh
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: we had to sink 2t on it I think, Denmark probably only 1
Grotsnot: if that even
Grotsnot: didn't they get a zerker kill right away?
Grotsnot: yeah they did
Banzailizard: and 3 harbors quickly too
Grotsnot: good thought
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: we will pull ahead through settling
Grotsnot: :D
Grotsnot: all right ending turn then
Banzailizard: sounds good
Grotsnot: never fast enough with the F12 for trader vision
Grotsnot: wish there was a button to move them without ending turn
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: all right have transcript. Will upload the save right away for once >_>

Turn 10 is a nice round number so deserves a proper post Gonna have to wait until tomorrow though. Maybe I can get up to only being the current turn behind

[Banzailizard]

You are probably on your own for the turn tonight. I will be in transit. I can have steam chat open for immediate questions but I proably cannot view the stream on my phone.

[Grotsnot]

All right, thanks for the heads up. I've been working on a turn 10-12 megareport to get caught up but haven't been able to finish it yet.

I don't tonight should be too complicated a turn - the main thing will be assessing the odds at Wolin (knock on wood Denmark hasn't somehow eaten it this turn). Their Walls make calculation annoying but I'll take a crack at it this evening. Assuming it's in the state we left it, Wolin has 166HP+16Wall @ STR48. We have 2 Zerkers who hit at 60, a 25 Archer, a 40 Longship and a 40 Huscarl - though we'll probably have a few dings. I'm tempted to slug it with the Archer or the Huscarl if we can't take it in one swoop since - having not seen the turn yet - I'm hopeful we'll have a stronger force around than the Danes.

[Grotsnot]

Well this is frustrating. I had a draft going for the report but the board seems to have eaten it
Disregard; it's back now. That was weird. The Saved Drafts was persistently showing 0 items across multiple computers and browsers but now it's all fine