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It's Chevalier's Thread and He Can Do What He Wants To

...huh.




After some thought, I do something radical: I take the deal.

Look, I get that this is basically unheard of in Civ multiplayer, probably for good reason. Perez is a decent naval base, although it's basically maxed out on how large it will get due to food and housing issues. It adds a trickle of science and, if you can wait for a harbor, it'll add some gold and science. However, as far as cities go, Perez is like the least essential city in my empire. Its sole purpose is as a naval base for upgrading and repairing to attack the Dutch - and I don't want to fight the Dutch right now.

Why?

First, the Dutch are in the middle of their power spike as they hit Sevens. Those nasties could take Perez away from me in the first turn of a war anyway. They move faster and hit harder than my frigates. Let's maybe get some privateers online, and look to confront them with submarines or battleships down the road. 

Second, I'm not in a great position for an apocalyptic war. We're evenly matched at 1300 power apiece now, but Archduke is (somehow) still making a bit of cash, while I'm losing it. We're both maxed out on upgrades, so in a war of attrition I feel like he has a slight advantage, especially when you throw in his Sevens. Let me get my gold situation sorted, and we'll revisit the issue.

Third, I'm about to take off economically. If I avoid a war with the Dutch, I have ~15 turns to get Harbors/trade and Campuses online. Next turn we're buying another Madrasa. 4 turns after that, a library in Zobrist. 10 turns after that, another Madrasa. And so on, in an increasing spiral of faith purchases. I already slammed the accelerator on science this turn, taking me up to 75, highest in the game, and we're going to keep growing. 

Fourth, and finally, Perez is in a decent spot for me to retake, and I'm in a good position to hurt the Dutch short of war. I'm clear to at last take Mohenjo-Daro with a frigate fleet:





We're on our way now. 7 turns until the caravel arrives, at which point we'll knock out about 10 Dutch culture and add some of our own, plus we'll get a base to start expanding onto this island. We'll contend with the English but they have other problems. 

Finally, we're clear to begin an eastern offensive. I actually have some serious thoughts on this matter. I have 8 Frigates and 4 galleys available for operations, plus about 8 quads left in support. We need to quarantine America, first and foremost - can't let them loose onto the island. Then, though, check things out:




Rowain has 5 cities, total. Very few of them are coastal - at most, 3, unless his island is way narrow, which seems unlikely. An early strike can eliminate Baltimore and any others, and he really doesn't have any way to retaliate. That's one possibility.

We COULD also attack Japper from the rear, helping out Emperor. He has a lot of weak cities exposed to me - a raze-fest here would effectively knock him out. Or I could do both! That would piss off both Rowain and Japper, but if they have no ships, what can they do? I hate to burn bridges like that, but that could be the decisive play. Unfortunately, razing gets me nothing, and helps out the Archduke just as much. I'm inclined to raze Japper's stuff, and try and capture what I can of America - for which I will need Mamluks. Washington will be a tough nut to crack, deep in the interior. I'll noodle that over, but that seems like my best chance at victory somehow.

In 30 turns, we'll come back to the Archduke in a stronger position, and retake Perez and go for his coast. That's the loose plan, at least. 

Here's hoping this wasn't too :weed: of a move, but I like to be bold and unconventional. A stupid slugfest between us right now is boring for me (sorry lurkers) - I don't believe in fair fights.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
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A fair fight is a fight you could lose, I like this plan thumbsup (whether that says it's a good plan or a bad one is left as an exercise for the reader. At the very least it is an entertaining plan popcorn)
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Hey, blood is blood is blood, whether it's yours or Rowain's or Japper's. As long as you fight someone I'll be happy.  Commissar
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Wow, Perez is a hefty price for that alliance. I shouldn't be surprised that Archduke countered with something like that, and although I'm not sure I would have taken it (what do I know?) I can certainly see why you did.

I don't think you want to be razing any cities if you can help it. As you say, burning down someone else's cities only hurts you relative to Archduke, and the risk of being stuck in a war over territory you can't keep when Archduke comes knocking again seems significant.

I think your best bet is to play this conventionally: hit rowain as hard and fast as possible with Mamluks and Frigates in 10-15 turns, then reevaluate from there. The wildcard that I'm not familiar with is loyalty pressure: how much time are you going to have to clean the continent before the former American cities decide to kick you out?
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Actually I want to be kicked out. The plan right now is to ignore Japper - let Archduke worry about him over in English territory - and try to sucker as much of Rowain's forces near the coast as possible. Loyalty pressure means I can let a free city form in, say, Baltimore, then reclaim it sans occupation. With Washington a tough nut to crack inland, that seems like the best bet.

As for Mamluks, I can't afford any heavy chariots at the moment, and scraping together the cash for upgrades will be really hard. Archduke and I are both at maxed-out military capacity, essentially - about a dozen modern units backed up by another dozen obsolete ships ready for upgrades.

It puts us in an interesting place. We have 3 options, as I see it, any point in the game:

1)Build military. This is out for both of us, due to economic considerations. We literally can't afford any more military than what we have.
2)Build up. Expand districts and city buildings, generate an increased revenue stream that way. This is what I'm up to.
3)Build out. Expand total cities via settlers. This is the only other productive use of, er, production, but it ultimately won't solve the gold crisis apart from a few extra gold tiles like plantations, crabs, or copper at the new expansions.

I hope Archduke opts for option 3 while i take option 2. That will let me upgrade more of my military later and have an edge over the Dutch in 30 turns or so. If I am VERY lucky, that will be what it takes to win.

We're in uncharted R&F territory now. Time to see how the xpansion holds up in later eras!
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
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(December 12th, 2018, 16:53)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Actually I want to be kicked out. The plan right now is to ignore Japper - let Archduke worry about him over in English territory - and try to sucker as much of Rowain's forces near the coast as possible. Loyalty pressure means I can let a free city form in, say, Baltimore, then reclaim it sans occupation. With Washington a tough nut to crack inland, that seems like the best bet.

Hang on, so the plan is to take a city, let it flip, then take it again? Or are you trying to flip Baltimore yourself?
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(December 12th, 2018, 19:46)williams482 Wrote:
(December 12th, 2018, 16:53)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Actually I want to be kicked out. The plan right now is to ignore Japper - let Archduke worry about him over in English territory - and try to sucker as much of Rowain's forces near the coast as possible. Loyalty pressure means I can let a free city form in, say, Baltimore, then reclaim it sans occupation. With Washington a tough nut to crack inland, that seems like the best bet.

Hang on, so the plan is to take a city, let it flip, then take it again? Or are you trying to flip Baltimore yourself?

Yes, that's correct. My navy pretty drastically outclasses Rowain's [citation needed] so I should be able to win command of the seas around his island. That means he can't hold anything I can bombard from the sea, so razing the city isn't strictly necessary. 

Occupied, Baltimore won't do anything much for me due to the penalties, so taking it is mostly denial value to Rowain. If I let it flip, it's still denied to him (for 10 turns, until it flips to him again), and I'll have time to capture it again and lift any occupation penalties wholly. I have Victor and Amani standing by to slot in for Loyalty the second time and for defensive purposes.
I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
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I really hope we get to see some Victor action. I never need him in SP, but I'm curious to see what he can do in MP.
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Japper makes progress against Emperor:




At the same time, I'm finally putting down the barb camp in the north. I don't need a massive irruption coming down on Davis or Zobrist. It'd be embarrassing to lose a city to barbs (although not as embarrassing as losing a city to a city-state!). 

Meanwhile, the navy has been split into two fleets. First Fleet steams sails for Mohenjo Daro, accompanied by a Dutch escort. I've got ships ahead of the Archduke, but he nevertheless seems intent on trying to occupy the sites nearest Mohenjo-Daro in an effort to shield the city from my conquest. That won't work, though, for two reasons. Reason the 1st)I am ahead of Archduke and will be able to occupy those sites before he arrives. Reason the 2nd)I am sitting on 4 envoys, meaning Archduke needs to dump 4 envoys into the city BEFORE I make my own move, or else I can knock him out of suzerainity and get his fleet kicked out. So he's welcome to this little excursion, but it's fruitless.

Second Fleet has set course for America, Indonesia, and Oman:




Here's the initial task force (TF 21) of four frigates. Also visible is the follow on task force of four (TF 22) and the sentry net. Rowain has a decentish army, I think, and a combat bonus on my continent, so I've used my excess quads to patrol the channel between our islands to ward off invasion (TF 23). We can't make many offensive moves until the galleys arrive, however (and the galleys can't be upgraded until we get our hands on some cash). 

I'm not going for Baltimore (yet), though. Our initial target lies further to the south:




Our pet city-state, Muscat. Muscat adds +4 gpt to the capital...and nothing else. The suzerain bonus boosts Commercial Hubs, as does all the envoy bonuses. I have built no commercial hubs. Muscat, though, has built a CH AND a Harbor. Each are next to each other and the city state for +3 adjacency apiece, which means (with Naval Infrastructure in place) we're looking at +9 gpt from districts alone. Another 11 gpt is available from nearby tiles, and we get another trade route, and more GA points, and we can build a settler or two for this island. And we prevent Archduke or Rowain from snagging the city first. 

Just beyond Muscat lies Japper, and a decision:




Japper's core lies beyond Muscat. Most of his cities are coastal (duh, he's Indonesia), his military score is about 1/3 of my own, and he's at war with Emperor and Emperor's GA-boosted fleet - on the FAR side of the empire. Japper is a much more fruitful target than Rowain. If I had my druthers, I'd really rather take his stuff and not Rowain's. The difficulty will be defending this with America in the middle, and the Netherlands sure to go hostile. Rowain offered a DoF, and I have to decide if I want it, or if I want war with America. 

In an ideal world, I'd take Japper's core, and trash Rowain's coast enough that he can't interfere. But then I have to dedicate troops to bottling him up, and that distracts from the real enemy of the Netherlands. I could attack Rowain alone, but that will only get me a handful of cities, best case. Or I could take the DoF and invade Japper, and figure out the diplomacy later. 

Scores:




I Think I'm Gwangju Like It Here

A blog about my adventures in Korea, and whatever else I feel like writing about.
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Let future Chev deal with it. That guy's a really nice chap.
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