[Spoiler] PB42: Rusten and mackoti play Krill playing Bismarck of Portugal

[Krill]

Turn 75 world map.

Update to come later with a lot of rambling as I try to figure out tech path and build orders.

[Krill]

There comes a point in these games where everyone sits down and works out what they need from techs, often after they've crippled their economy. I've already done that after we missed Oracle: Alphabet, build Research, Currency, shove Academy in Capital, reassess. Mids is a back up plan.

Once Cities 3 (Mack the Knife) and 4 (Tuxedo Junction) finish their libraries and work 2 scientists (T76 and T77 respectively) we should have a breakeven base bpt of about 35-37, and a max bpt of around 80. I think it's actually 85 if we don't whip city 7 and work both furs, which would give Alphabet in 4 turns. We have 2 settlers built but unsettled as well by T78 (could just settle one of the cities) and should have around 180 gold saved, enough for 5 turns of max research if we don't settle another city. Theoretically we could just grab Alphabet by eot81 if I've worked these figures out correctly, but I'm not sure we should do that.

Right now the north is unfogbusted. The south is a dead end, and the south west is about to become the barb spawning ground from hell without any military cover at all. I need 2 units for MP to the north, 2 units to fogbust the north (above and beyond what we already have built, and one to fogbust the west. The SW ideally needs 2 chariots for cover. I count 6 more military units needed there, 150 hammers of archers up to 210 hammers of axe/spears. This is not counting what we would need to cover a southern land grab city to set up the front city against OH, which I reckon to be 2 archers and a following axe with a chariot in the vicinity.

Given I am about to put two cities onto scientist duty, neither can build military units effectively. MtK (City 3) can slow build an archer or chariot with no real difficulty, and city 4 was crap anyway at building anything. Kalamazoo is on Mids (and taking up a hefty 40% of our hammers to put this into perspective, the remaining hammers we generate puts is 1 hpt over average opponent production), so that leaves city 2 (LittleBrownJug) and the capital to build units. The capital is caught between growing cottages and stagnating to do that, and making up to 17hpt if it sits on the hammer tiles (with one grass mine built). Whipping away pop points that it can't easily regrow without the pig is also a damper on this (NB, I can make this work though, given Kalamazoo is supposed to spend 14 turns working deer+grass hill rather than pig+plains hill to speed up Pyramids slightly).

To bring this back to tech, as much as I want Alphabet and I've portrayed it as a solution, it's not really. I've gone with the option of Mids for Rep or fail gold, and two libraries. It is going to have to wait until after Archery, which at an adjusted cost of 64 isn't even a turn of max research and shouldn't really delay Alphabet past T81. The real question is do we grab Sailing.

I think we do, because I think we need to be greedy. We have 2 settlers we are about to finish, and we don't know when we are going to finish any more. One of these I've earmarked for the OH front city. I know we have no military, however the capital (In The Mood) can put 4 hammers into an axe by working sheep and cottages, double whip and regrow to size 5 by stealing the pig for a single turn. It can overflow 26 hammers from the axe whip, so it can easily finish an archer on the following turn. The cost is growing one fewer cottage for 10 turns. I think this is necessary, and the axe can reach the forwards grass hill tile T83, the same turn the settler from LBJ can reach there, if I can make the workers get the road down in time. If we use one settler for an island city, there are two workers that I have not allocated to anything as yet, and they could get the road down with no trouble. The capital would need to follow up with a further archer, but if we prioritized it, we could have axe>archer>archer completing on consecutive turns.

The settler from the capital can be used to settle the island city (the AintMisbehavin location is back up). There is no coastal seafood, and I don't think we need to send over a military unit with the settler because the shitty tundra islands with nothing interesting is only 16 tiles so I don't think barbs can generate on it (lurkers, please correct me if I am wrong: explicit question: what is the smallest sized land mass that barbs can spawn on?) This is good, because we have no military unit to send.

I think we use city 2 as the other city to double whip units out from: after the settler double whip, it regrows to size 3 in 2 turns with avoid growth. So whip settler T77, T78 dump overflow into an archer (minimum 13 hammers, can be finished in 2 turns), T79 dump 3 hammers into an axe and growth to size 3 then swap back to the archer, and double whip the axe on growth to size 4, T82. It should be enough to ensure give us a further 2 archers and an axe (maybe even swap an archer for a chariot) over those 5 turns. City 2 will be crippled and stuck at size 3 but fuck it: it can then sit on another settler.

This would give us an island city around T81. To do this we need a galley in place T79 (2N1E of city 7), which means it would need whipping T77 to keep to the fastest speed. That would mean we need to start research now, and I don't think we can get both Sailing and Archery in that timeframe with the amount of gold we have (the galley is via a whip and a chop).

Something to mull over.

[Krill]

I wrote that last paragraph in a rush as I was being dragged from the PC, but in hindsight, fuck Sailing, sending only 2 workers to the north, send 3 to prep the back up city 8 site for the capital settler and road to the south. One turn of max science finished Archery and we are greedy by continuing to risk barbs for a few more turns but with the roads in place, a chariot in Kalamazoo will still cover city 3

[Krill]

OK, streamlining: The main problem with grabbing the southern city is getting the units down there. Due to that, I'm speeding up the settler in the capital so there is no overflow, at the cost of 2 turns of cottage growth over 2 cottages. That allows the axe whip to be brought forward 2 turns, and means that the axe and settler will move onto the hill on T82, found T83. There will be a road in place, and we have 2 chariots and a scout to look over this. We also benefit from doing this and skipping Sailing in a somewhat unusual way: if we can road straight into OH's front city, we can get trade routes with him without needing Sailing, and that will be more profitable than having to pay for a junk, distant island city for a short while.

T74

Original capital:




Capital producing eot75 settler




The worker MM has been altered to allow for the one turn faster city 8 settling. This is also good for city 4 which had to struggle to choose to work corn or fp cottage, now that decision is irrelevant. Everything in the previously mentioned micro is sped up a turn:

Settler T78, work Corn 4 turns, horse 1 turn, growth@2 eot82. Corn and fp for 2 turns, 12 food in box, granary 30/60 with 1 chop. T85 whip granary. T86 avoid growth, T87 regrow size 2 with 15 food saved+overflow. Growth@3 eot89, Growth@4 eot91, growth@5 eot94 as unhappy wears off. Need barracks for border pop to get further hills though.

The capital builds axe T76, whips T77, and builds 2 archers T78 and T79. The horse is given up on T76, just the way it is. It will have to be given up on T80 or T81 but that doesn't matter, and it must steal the pigs T77. After this, it does not need to stagnate for all of the turns until it can regrow to size 6, so it can put more hammers into a library, or more likely, throw out an archer.





T77 give up pigs. Pick up Deer, T78 pick up pigs and give back the deer.





Giving up the deer hurts, but...double forest chop T76 to complete granary 60/60 with 10 food in the bank. T77 work farm and whatever junk tiles are available, T78 pick the deer back up, growth@3 eot80. I think I want to put a turn into a worker on T77 and will likely double whip it on T84, growth@4 eot83 just as the corn is hooked. Overflow is for military, or potentially to drop into another worker?





The question for is, do we chop the forest and single whip the granary? If we are delaying Sailing I think we should do. That would mean granary whip T81, leaving the city at size 1...which is why I'm considering the micro here: Do we want to keep the farm with JJ for a short while so the food box is half full when the granary get's whipped, or do we want the commerce from both furs? Or do we just change the micro again completely, build a worker at size 2 in BCR and whip that instead of getting that granary? I'm still thinking this one through.

Demographics before the change of plan:




And after:

[Krill]

Thought a bit more and worked out some smother micro for the northern cities:




Growth@2 eot74. T75 work deer and plains hill forest, granary 20/60, food box 2/24. T76 build worker, chop lands, worker 36/60. T77 whip worker, work plains hill forest, worker 81/60, overflow 15 hammers. T78 build granary, new worker 7 moves to plains hill forest chop, granary 38/40, T79 forest chopped, granary 61/60, food box 10/22. Growth@2 eot82 with 11 food saved.





As we aren't grabbing Sailing, I want the granary so we can prepare for a galley double whip. City 4 can also double whip a galley, but we have no western coastal cities, so this is the only place we can build one for scouting purposes, and to settle the island.

Continue to work grass farm, tundra forest furs. Worker on furs chops plains forest T78. Granary whip T79 with 13 food in the box. T80, T81 work grass farm, food box 19/22. T82 (as we now have 3 workers again) corn is farmed, work cor, growth@2 eot 82 with 11 food saved and 2 overflow for foodbox of 13/24.

I think this is the quickest way to get both of these cities productive. Even depending on how we want to prioritize growth between these cities, we can get them to size 4 by eot89 IMO. I think we want to get JJ to size 4 working the plains sheep, plains hill mine and both furs unless we can drag it to size 5 and working the grass farm to slowly accrue food and prepare for the incoming galley whip, and it can maintain size 5 from T88 anyway. BCR can maintain size 5 from T90, and it only really needs the corn to work 3 grass hill mines and a plains hill mine for stagnation purposes, otherwise it might as well just work deer, corn and whip a little. The reality is that the corn has to be swapped between BCR and JJ, but once they are grown we should be capable of keeping both of them close to the happy cap. Between the two cities, we could realistically get 15bpt from research builds and two double whips every 10 turns.

This just leaves the SW as the only vulnerable position remaining, but LBJ should get some units out to help with that, we can retreat the scout and use that as a fogbuster to the NW in the medium term, and the chariot in Kalamazoo can reach MtK in 2 turns. If we need to, we will have to whip MtK before the units can reach there from LBJ but we should have around them in position in 10 turns or fewer. Meanwhile MtK could overflow into an archer on T76 and would be able to whip that as an emergency if needed (might not even need to whip it, might be able to just finish it naturally due to the overflow hammers from teh library and natural production.

[Krill]

I logged in to see T75 knowing exactly what I was going to see. And I was not disappointed:

T75




After everything I've posted, the obvious barb axe has turned up. I expect it to move onto the mine, and the chariot should have over 90% odds on attack if promoted to C1. If it went onto the flatland it's over 95%.

I will play next turn, by logging in, looking around, and then attacking that axe unless something has popped out of the fog. If the axe wins I am going to need a sub because my PC will be going out a window. But just to show that even this eventuality has been accounted for, the worker that is chopping the granary in LBJ can instead swap the tile over to MtK and chop an archer, and I moved the warrior out of LBJ this turn as well, so I can stuff the city with 2 warriors. The city shouldn't fall, but the mine could get pillaged. The mine isn't actually needed for a while though, and if the axe died to the chariot MtK should finish an archer eot79 anyway using just the horse and running two scientists.





The barb warrior suicided without a hit, so we are full speed ahead on the road to the front city. OH founded a city T74 but I confirmed that it was not in this area.





The chariot and scout are returning to the north. They are going to move through the mountain pass, not going to risk ending turn next to an axe.

We need to get OB with OH to be able to see into his city, as even a sentry chariot on the hill is n't going to reach. A sentry chariot on the forest 99 of his city should get vision. Given there should be about 75 gold left end of turn, and due to the adjusted city micro we aren't going to hit a 4 turn alphabet, I reckon we need to save gold on Alphabet until we have about 150 saved. Working 4 scientists pushes 20 adjusted bpt into Alphabet a turn anyway, which might bring it down to 4 turns of full research, but definitely bring it down to 4 full turns and a turn of breakeven. Given that, I reckon we should need to save gold for 5 turns but might just go after 4 turns, which would give us an eta of eot83-eot85 dependent on costs from new cities. If we get the city, we then have the option of hooking the corn first, or roading straight to OH for a T86 road network in place.

If OH can settle that area first, then I think all bets are off because after Alphabet there is the option of an HA rush to claim that land. I don't think this is a good idea, but it is still an option and ought to be considered. If we claim that front city, OH has to split his forces to claim the sugar and gems, and I reckon he would more likely ignore that and plan to attack and claim this area through war by taking the front city. OH still has lower power than us even though we're losing so many units to barbs.





Theoretically there could be whales 2E1S of the plains sheep. If there are, I'd just laugh, but I wouldn't feel bad about neglecting Sailing: There is no way to get culture into the city locations needed to claim that tile even if settled. IMO the only reasonable city locations are 1W and 2E1N of the corn. The former site is a potential Moai location, or an NE location. I would favour NE, but I'm not seeing a rush down the Aesthetics line right now.





The library whips have ruined the crop yield, but I don't think that is OH.

[Krill]

I also need to note: that axe is not the axe that lead to me deleting the warrior: that axe should still be somewhere to the SW.

[Krill]

Looks like the slowdown for Xmas is starting.

Additional micro (For my benefit) for if axe beats chariot next turn: City 2/LBJ carries on with the settler but has to pick up the grass hill for a single turn (to whatever detriment that causes the capital, I think it would need to pick up the hill on T76 when the capital is working minimum hammer tiles). Whip the settler on T78 as planned (so no change for micro to settle the front city against OH, but the settler is at 62/100 rather than 50/100 due to the turn not building the granary), and generate 22 hammers overflow. T79, generate 3 hammers from the plains sheep and the city tile to make 25 hammers and finish granary 60/60 with food box at 20/24. Considering that straight growth would save 7 food and overflow 3 and then generate 7 the next turn for 17 food in the box eot81 and the output from the extra pop point (ie an extra turn of cottage growth) I don't think the avoid growth trick merits use here, it would only make one extra food but at the aforementioned cost. So if the axe beats the chariot, the cost is not monumental, more psychological. And annoying. It's a forest chop into an archer, a lost chariot and a turn delay on growth and everything else in LBJ.

[Krill]

Turn 76

The fact I am posting this turn report should telegraph the outcome of events this turn.








The chariot is at 68hp and the axe is dead. The barb warrior should move, and then we have the option to let the chariot heal in place, or to retreat to the city. If the warrior moves onto flat land next turn, we even have an 82% chance of killing it next turn. Healed for one turn in culture and the warrior remains on flat land, 94% odds. More likely I just retreat the chariot into the city and let the warrior either bounce off the chariot for 1XP or it moves to the corn and we get the chance to gain 2XP, but by that point the archer is almost complete and we have the option to push out and set up a sentry net/barb busting area again.





More fish, no whales, and even less interest.  I expect Mardoc has put ice down here to stop exploring and this is a dead end, which begs the question why. OTOH, I have seen numerous players question the design of random maps, and see map maker action where the reality was the RNG built the map that way. I'll withhold judgement for a short while then.





Just look at that happy column. Things are dire. TX grows eot77 as the whip unhappy wears off and picks up the second scientist then, but on the turn City 8 doesn't need the corn will steal that back to prepare for growth to size 5 and working one extra capital cottage.





Crop yield has dropped because we are working 3 scientists, and dropped a corn at TX. Next turn we settle a new city and work that dropped corn. Other than that, all the food resources are worked. GNP actually jumps to 4th when we turn tech back on. I imagine it drops when we settle the new city next turn though

[Krill]

Lewwyn just post 7 score on turn roll. So he either lost terrain to a border pop from a neighbour, or he star ed multiple cities.

I think Henge just popped borders for his neighbour and nailed his front city. But as land points don't show for 20 turns I'm not going to figure it out with my lackadaisical C&D.

Turn to be played in the morning. Day off doing nothing after being at work and hosting Xmas lunch seems a wonderful idea.