Burning Down the House [Mr. Cairo Spoilers]

[Mr. Cairo]

Don't have much to say or show yet, but this depressing situation:


The scout moved from the Tundra hill 1NW, and will be the second scout I've lost so far.

I wonder which one will kill it?

[Mardoc]

Wow, that's...a lot of depressing teeth and claws.

[superjm]

Clearly all three will die and you'll have 25 XP on your scout.

[Mr. Cairo]

Well, the Bear killed him, but I suppose to make up for it my scouting Warrior killed a Spider, but it'll probably die on it's way bay home to heal. Oh well. While I'm here I'll discuss all the civs.

My picks:
1: Averax the Cambion of the Sheaim
2: Cassiel of the Grigori
3: Jonas Endain of the Clan
4: Arendel Phaedra of the Ljosalfar
5: Alexis of the Calabim

So I knew I wanted the Sheaim this game, for maximum violence and explosions. The only question was the leader.
Tebryn (Arcane, Summoner) is geared towards magic and wants to get those Mobius Witches out, but I thought that I'd end up behind in development, and have a big target on my back, since the other players aren't going to want to let me get that far.
Os-Gabells (Spiritual, Charismatic) just seems a little underwhelming, Spiritual isn't as powerful as in regular civ since slavery is so nerfed here.
So, Averax (Aggressive, Expansive, Barbarian) ended up being the choice. Barbarian + Expansive can lead to massive over-expansion, so I'm instead going to try and expand at a regular rate, and use all the extra hammers I'll get from half-price settlers and reduced escorts/garrison to build more workers than I normally do, and cottage early and often to make up for the Barbarian science penalty. Aggressive also makes Pyre Zombies more attractive than Mobius Witches, so I plan to get to them as soon as possible

Now lets talk about the Sheaim. They are a civ mostly focused on conquest and war, with the Pyre Zombie, one of the best offensive and defensive units in the game; while also having access to a powerful spell-caster in the Mobius Witch that isn't reliant upon access to mana.

Unique Units:
Pyre Zombie: An Undead Axeman replacement that's more expensive, but come with a number of fun abilities. They get +1 Fire combat (the Sheaim start with Fire mana), and are resistant to fire. But by far their most important ability is that when they die they explode, damaging all units adjacent to them (but not units on the same tile). So a stack of them is very difficult to attack with 1-move units, and they are very good at attacking cities. With Mobility they become terrifying. One thing to note is the Sheaim don't have access to any units further down the melee tech path, so no Champion, Phalanx, Immortal, or Beserker. The Pyre Zombie also doesn't require a Training Yard (which is blocked for the Sheaim).

Eater of Souls: I doubt the game will last long enough, but these are Archmage replacements that can sacrifice population in a friendly city to regain the ability to cast a spell.


They have access to a bunch more, but they are all related to the Sheaim's only Unique Building:
Planar Gate (requires KotE, 67 hammers on quick). Randomly spawns units in the cities they're built in, based on the Armageddon Counter, and other buildings in the city.

Chaos Marauder (Carnival): 4 strength melee units that can use better weapons. Basically Axemen they can be used to add numbers to an army, or as a better garrison than Warriors.

Mobius Witch (Mage Guild): 4 strength arcane units with Channeling 1 and 2, so they can have access to level 2 spells long before Mages appear. They also often start with a few random spells, so they can get spells even if you don't have the mana. Very, very good. Even though I'm targeting Pyre Zombies first, I will be wanted these as well.

Revelers (Gambling House): 6 strength , 2-move recon units. +1 poison combat, 35% withdrawal chance, and can see invisible units. Probably will never appear as I'm unlikely to build Gambling Houses.

Tar Demon (Temple of the Veil): 2/7 strength Demon disciple units. +1 Unholy combat, and flat movement costs (so roads don't help). Useful at defending cities, if I go for the AV I'll end up with these.

Succubus (Public Baths): 4 strength, 2-move Demon melee units. +2 Unholy combat, can use better weapons, and starts with Mind II, so can cast Charm Person, a spell that can cause living units to be unable to attack until it wears off. Public Baths are useful for happiness in my SP games, but whether I'll build any here remains to be seen, but is unlikely. Also would single-handedly increase the ESRB rating for the game to M.

Minotaur (Obsidian Gate): 8/11 strength melee units with +25% city defense. Extremely unlikely to appear this game, but it sure would be cool if it lasted long enough for Obsidian Gates (magical Airpoirts) to be built.

Manticore (Grove): 12/8 strength Flying beast units. +25 against mounted units and has cannibalize. Groves are pretty late game buildings that require Commune with Nature, which can be accessed either via the FoL/RoK religious tech paths, or via Priesthood -> Fanaticism. They provide +2 happy with the Guardian of Nature civic, and allow the building of Druids. Another unlikely unit to appear, and I'm not likely to go for FoL, but if the game does last that long, I'll want some.

The ones most likely to appear are the Chaos Marauder and Mobius Witches (and possibly Tar Demon). They all spawn more frequently the higher the Armageddon Counter is, which brings me to the Sheaim's civ ability:

Sundered: From what I've gathered, it basically gives the Sundered Promotion to all Spellcasters, which gives all their summons the Stigmata promotion (and gives the spellcasters +25% resistance to Unholy damage). Stigmata gives a % strength bonus equal to half the Armageddon Counter.

As a result of that and the Planar Gate the Sheaim directly benefit from higher AC. Being at peace with the barbs is also good for higher AC count, since the Four Horsemen wont attack me.

The Sheaim Palace provides Fire, Death, and Chaos mana, so I'll probably want to focus on getting more Death for high strength Spectres. I'd want Body as well, but I'd hope that enough Mobius Witches spawn with Body 1 for Haste.

The Sheaim Hero is Abashi the Black Dragon, which requires the very late game tech Divine Essence, so isn't really relevant.

Their World Spell is Worldbreak, which causes damage in all non-Sheaim lands based on the AC. I don't know how good it is, but if I can get the AC up it might be usefull just as a way to soften up someone before an invasion.

Since the Sheaim are all about the AC, they have access to a Ritual at Philosophy tech called Elegy of the Sheaim, that just add 5 to the AC. There is an inverse of that ritual for the Elohim that reduces the AC by 5, and the Elohim are in this game, which is mildly unfortunate, I don't know if I'll build this ritual, since often the AC doesn't need any help considering how happy human players are to raze cities.

So that's the Sheaim, my tech plan for this game, to try and take advantage of them is as follows:
Agriclture -> Calender (I'm 2 turn away from this as of the last turn I played) -> Education -> Crafting -> Mining -> Bronze Working -> Mysticism -> Knowledge of the Ether -> probably Philosophy and Corruption of the Spirit for religion, but idk yet, I might prefer HBR for Mobility promotions on my Pyre Zombies.

Once I get to Pyre Zombies I'll start to mass them, and if I see the opportunity I'll attack someone with a bunch of them. Otherwise I'll go for Mobius Witches, and them plus Pyre Zombies should be able to ruin someone's day. I'll discuss the other civs in the next post.

But in the meantime, I was wondering if a lurker could tell me how the game decides how many units are allowed to spawn through the Planar Portal, I understand that there's a cap based on the AC, but is it per unit type, or does it count them all. ie: will I get more total units the greater variety of units can spawn through?

[Mardoc]

But in the meantime, I was wondering if a lurker could tell me how the game decides how many units are allowed to spawn through the Planar Portal, I understand that there's a cap based on the AC, but is it per unit type, or does it count them all. ie: will I get more total units the greater variety of units can spawn through?

Per unit type. I think the chance per turn is constant - you'll only ever get one unit per turn per gate - but once you have all your Mobius Witches you can still get Chaos Marauders.

[Mr. Cairo]

But in the meantime, I was wondering if a lurker could tell me how the game decides how many units are allowed to spawn through the Planar Portal, I understand that there's a cap based on the AC, but is it per unit type, or does it count them all. ie: will I get more total units the greater variety of units can spawn through?

Per unit type.  I think the chance per turn is constant - you'll only ever get one unit per turn per gate - but once you have all your Mobius Witches you can still get Chaos Marauders.

So if I have Planar Gates and Mage Guilds only, then I'll only get Mobius Witches until I've maxed out on them, then if I build Carnivals I'll get the Chaos Marauders. Any idea what that cap is? A percentage of the AC?


Ok, now I'll discuss the other civs:
Aurorarcher (Shekinah of the Sidar)
Creative, Arcane.
The Sidar have some unique recon units including a Hunter replacement that can seperate it's 'shade' and move it around invisibly, then bringing it's body to it (if in appropriate terrain). Basically Adepts (the Protoss ones).
Their hero is an Assassin-type with a bunch of abilities. Him and with their Ghost Assassin replacement UU are created invisible, and can become invisible again after revealing themselves for an attack. Their hero has a sword, The Nether Blade, that gives him +2 Death and +80% vs Hero according to the wiki.
Their World Spell is Into the Mist, which makes all his units invisible.
Their units that reach level 6 (5?) can turn into Shades that can join a city as a settled Great Person, which seems really bad tbh. Wouldn't it be better to keep the highly promoted unit? Or is there something about this I'm missing?
So obviously very much focused on recon units, although the leader is more focused on magic stuff, being Arcane. But if Auro does go down the Recon route, I'll need to follow a little bit, just so I can get some units that can see all his invisible ones.


Dave V (Capria of the Bannor)
Spiritual, Financial.
The Bannor abilities and UUs revolve around a unique Civic, Crusade they can use once they're researched Fanaticism. It's called Crusade, and it reduced military support costs, -75% WW, and +2 happy and +25% unit production in cities with your state religion. You also cannot build non-military units and building, and you can't negotiate with war enemies.
But once in Crusade, you have access to a couple quite good units, the main one being the Demagog. A Champion-like unit that's much cheaper than the Champion (and 1 less strength). They also have the Flagbearer, a unit that can give its stack the Morale promotion, which gives +10% strength, +10% city attack, and 10% chance to wear off each turn.
The Bannor World Spell is called Rally, requires you to be in the Crusade civic, and spawns a Demagog in every Town and City.
But that's not the only way you can get Demagogs. Town controlled by the Bannor will upgrade to special Bannor Towns that spawn a Demagog regularly if you're in the Conquest civic (and you would be, wouldn't you). I remember playing one single-player game as the Bannor, and it got pretty insane how many Demagogs I was getting after I carpeted my land with Towns.
Their Hero is called Donal Lugh, require Fanaticism, is very good on the defense with promos and equipment, and has an ability called Recruit, that is cast in a city and spawns a random assortment of units there, based on the population. if Donal kills a Demon or Undead unit he regains the ability (which sucks against me since most of my units are undead or demons)
Their civ trait is Guardsman according to the pedia, but I can't remember what it does, presumably something to do with the Guardsman promo.
Overall, the Bannor strength lies in the mid to late game, which we haven't really reached before, but maybe this time we will. But that's probably why Dave chose Capria as a leader, for the economic benefits to help him get to the mid-game


Bobchillingworth (Dain of the Amurites)
Philosophical, Arcane.
The Amurites are all about the magic. Their UU replacements for the Mage is the Wizard, which is the same as a Mage, but has a spellstaff, so in times of trouble can cast 2 spells in one turn. Their Firebow UU Longbow replacement can learn the Fireball spell, which makes them quite potent, but not really necessary with enough Wizards and such, and their Assassin UU replacement can teleport back to the capital if it needs to.
Their UU is also geared towards magic, its a Pagan Temple replacement that grants Arcane units built there +1xp for each mana resource connected to the city. So with enough mana it might even be possible to build Adepts that can instantly promote to Wizards.
Their World Spell is called Arcane Lacuna, and it disables spellcasting for other players for a time, and grants a bunch of xp to all their arcane units (based on the number of upgraded mana nodes in the game)
Their hero is Govannon, who has access to level three spells before Archmages arrive, and can teach all (living?) units in his stack all the level 1 spells he knows. For me, the one of most value is Death 1, as it can drastically increase the number of skeletons available. But good for other things like Haste as well.
Basically, if you let the Amurites get going with their magical nonsense they're very hard to beat. My priority (and probably everyone else's) is to end them as soon as possible. No OB, no trade deals, etc.


mackoti (Ethne of the Elohim)
Creative, Organised
The Elohim's "thing" is that when they capture cities it can still build it's old civs UUs and UBs. I'm not sure how relevent that is in a MP game though, but they have a bunch of other stuff too.
Once of their UU's is a Monument replacement that gives +1 Geat Prophet point by itself and has a Priest slot, so they can get a GP out very quickly. Their other UU is the Chancel of the Guardians, comes at Priesthood, and gives +25% defense in the city, and a 35% chance that units built there get the Defensive promo, which doubles their Fortification bonus. Obvioously good for defending cities, but if you're doing that, you've probably already lost.
Their main UU is the Monk. It requires Priesthood, but no building or religious requirements. It's a 6 strength Disciple unit with Demon Slaying, Drill 1, Medic 1, and Mobility II (but not Mobility 1, presumably so that it can still get that promo with their leader with Spiritual). They can also upgrade to level 2 religious Priest units. I think Monks can be very good indeed in numbers, but I'm not sure. They also have the Devout, an assassin replacement that's not really an assassin (no Marksman promo), but it can explore rival territory, and starts with Channeling 1 & 2 and Life 1. So good at lowering the AC if there's lots of city ruins around, and once promoted has the Destroy Undead ability (not good for me at all).
Their World Spell kicks out all enemy units and prevents their entry into his borders for a number of turn. Basically, you don't want to be the first one to attack them. Although forcing them to fire it off with a small force threatening a weak point seems like a good strategy.
They're pretty noob-friendly I'd say, especially with Ethne as the leader, which may be why mack picked them, I don't know how much EitB mack has played. They are pretty much the complete opposite of the Sheaim, so may end up being my enemy.

[Mardoc]

IIRC, it's 1 unit below 25 ac, 2 below 50, 3 below 75 and 4 above 75. Per city with gate and unit unlocking building...so if you only have one carnival you only get one marauder. Sheaim want to build many buildings if going gate...which makes it good you get units for free...

Sidar isn't obvious but situationally 4 hpt can replace the waned unit with two more units, or 8 bpt can get you to a tech lead. Either way more econ can replace the lost military power and then some, if there is enough time left in game. But sometimes you'd rather just keep the unit, yes.

[Mr. Cairo]

IIRC, it's 1 unit below 25 ac, 2 below 50, 3 below 75 and 4 above 75.  Per city with gate and unit unlocking building...so if you only have one carnival you only get one marauder.  

Very useful information, thanks Mardoc.

Now I suppose I should actually report on the game, so here:


I just finished Calender. I'll revolt into Agrarianism after finishing the settler. My worker will plantation the incense next, then continue to farm some for the new city. I've decided to give up trying to hook those clams early, it just makes for bad dot-maps. So I'll just send one there via forts from a city on the coast of the sea to the north-west at some point.

Re: my proposed tech path in my earlier post, I forgot to include Cartographyin there at some point, possibly even right now, before Education. Gonna need some roads.

Edit: meant Exploration

[Mr. Cairo]

Well, it's been a while, so here's an update:


I landed city #3 and revolted to Agrarianism and Apprenticeship last turn. I've got a settler about halfway done in Grottiburg, but I want to grow that city and build some mines to use my settler prodution bonus more effectively.

I just finished Mining tech, and am going on to Bronze Working for those Pyre Zombies. I'm kinda thinking that building a bunch of Pyre Zombies and attacking someone before they can really do much against them might be a pretty good idea.

That barb city to my south I'll be keeping an eye on. If someone tries to take it I want to be there with some Pyre Zombies to take it myself, or burn it. If I can't have, no one can. It looks like DaveV is to the south there (I've met Auro and Bob, but just with passing scouts).

I'm also building cottages, so my economy isn't trash this time around:


Consididering I'm not CRE and have the -10% to science from BAR, this seems quite good actually. #1 is Auro:


But overall I've been keeping up in most demos, except power (of course, I don't need more than 1 Warrior per city/setter at this stage of the game).

Here are my cities:







My next techs after BW are Animal Husbandry and Hunting, then on towards the magic/religious side of the tree.

There's not really a lot to talk about (at least, to me) but if anyone has any questions, I'll try to answer them.

[Mr. Cairo]

Well, Refsteel commented on everyone else's thread and I'm feeling left out, so here's a report.

Opened the turn to this:


I rejected, then sent back just OB. I don't want him to have my maps, but I also don't want to seem unfriendly. Because, my immediate plans are to attack DaveV with Pyre Zombies. I'll head down towards his capital from above:


via the barb city and staging on the marked tile. That will let me put my PZs 2 turns from his capital on the first turn of the war, unless he founds a city up there in the meantime, but he probably wont since it's not very good land (which reminds me to send a unit to the north of my cap in case someone else is going to try the same thing on me).
I'm currently a little behind on development, I need more workers, but I've decided to basically throw the dice on this attack and hope it works out. The longer I do nothing and just peacefully develop, the longer I'll fall behind in tech thanks to the Barbarian trait. I have an amazing unit already available to me, let's use it. I don't yet have a timetable, but once I've founded my latest city and get out another worker or 2, I'll know more.