TBS moves 1UPT

[The Black Sword]

Post Colosseum stats:

Science:
1. Russia 37.6
2. Greece 27.8
3. England 24.6
4. Rome 20.9
5. Arabia 16
6. Japan(sorry, didn't record)

Culture:
1. Russia 41.5
2. Rome 21.6
3. England 19.4
4. Arabia 19.1
5. Greece 17.3
6. Japan

Additionally I make 75hpt and 20fpt, though I don't have any references for my opponents.

Anybody got a good thread showcasing naval combat? I need to try understand better how to deal with a potential English fleet. I remember a couple of good ones(probably oledavy's was my favourite) but I was reading more for story than mechanics at the time.

[The Black Sword]

As I finished Apprenticeship I confirmed that the game processes tech first before hammers, I got the bonus mine hammers on the same turn as I researched the tech, just like you get the bonus hammers from replaceable parts in civ 4.



Turns feel quite involved right now, lots of useful build options, workers popping out around the place, civic cards to juggle.

I'm switching back to the settler bonus in 2t, when the two Novo's can put chops into settlers. Nizy has a 2nd chop to complete it T93 and overflow into another worker. Novo has a lot of raw hammers to finish T95. I thought a bit about overflowing these chops from walls build, but it doesn't seem to be worth it when I already have the 50% bonus on settlers. I lose a couple of hammers total to get some fairly useless walls and maybe the wall tricks will be more useful later.

Astra and Moscow are going for walls tricks. Partly because they're building items without multipliers, partly because the walls will be useful there. Astra will overflow the worker it has half way done and have about a 100h spare. Haven't decided what that goes into yet, it's tentatively assigned to units but we'll see how worried we are about Rome at the time. Moscow will get a worker, Encampment and Campus, though it will need to slow build the end of the last district. It's also to be determined if that district is the Campus or Encampment. 

Rome peaced out with Greece and hasn't offered me any deal, so I'm a little wary. He's got to want to (finally) finish off Japan though and he's probably in 4th place right now, not the usual choice to slow their own development to hurt the leader. 

I decided to head first for the religion civic(will 1t it with the overflow from Drama and Poetry) and get a Temple down ASAP in the capital, so I have the option of Crusade just in case. IIRC I can have it by T97-98. For that I delay getting access to Mercenaries and cheap upgrades by 2t but I'll still have it in time to upgrade my archers to crossbows, which seemed like the important threshold. While waiting St Pete is finishing a granary, so that it's 10fpt surplus isn't cut in half by Housing issues when it grows to size 7.

Finally Voro is going to finish the Commercial Hub after just spitting out the worker. The Limes overflow trick gets me a free 30h here so I went ahead with it.

My galleys have been out exploring looking for more city states. This guy will continue West while the 2nd will check the bay between Rome and myself.



The East has already been mapped out by Kandy and I can't go further without a wardec on England.


Still worried about defending against the English Navy btw. Even with a weaker tech rate they should get to Frigates before Cossacks. 

On that topic I've been thinking about slotting in Mathematics and Education to my tech line. I should be able to fulfil the Great Scientist Eureka in time, so the cost is 300b and it makes back 270b in the Eureka for Printing(which is on the path to Cossacks). So is it worth paying 500h for two Universities is the question? I probably get to Cossack slightly quicker but have less resources to put in to them. I'm not too worried about that though, since I'll have access to cheap upgrades, cities full of mines, and faith purchasing at the time. Still, if Cossacks really are a GG button then it is probably not worth it. If the game could continue for a while after Cossacks then I tend to think it is. My fear with Cossacks is that I kill England but lose the seas and never get out of the occupation penalty.

[The Black Sword]

Looks like it's my turn to face the Legions ...


I thought I'd have another couple of turns tbh.  Guess it's time to figure out how this combat system works.

[The Black Sword]

So, this is what I opened the save to:


He took down the walls off one of my encampments. He did more damage than I expected(only the 1 legion could attack), but I still don't quite understand how effective ranged units are against cities/encampents with/without walls.

I revolted to this stuff:


At this stage I went off to figure out how combat works and found that really useful table at CFC https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/h...147/page-4. So it looks to me I can get 2 kills here and I set up like so:


I have 5 attacks on the Legion with the ram - 3 archers, a warrior and the sword. The legion has the symbol for a promotion, but didn't seem to be benefiting from either Battlecry or Tortoise, not sure what's up there. I wanted to upgrade the warrior but I need to send him in to ensure the kill, and he has a promo for healing anyway. I finish with the sword last, opening him to a ranged strike from Neptune, but that has to be worth it to kill the ram.

I then have 3 attacks on the crossbow - 1 archer, the Encampment and sword. I decided against getting the final kill with the sword, not sure about that, it doesn't hurt to get into Neptune's range since I have a unit in there anyway, but I do prefer having the battle lines closer to my fortifications than his.

We upgraded the warrior by Moscow as well and finished up like so:


I think he'll struggle to get 2 kills next turn, since my sword is on 78hp it feels like he'd be lucky to kill it with 2 units. It's also 8v3 now so he might just retreat. I'll also have a couple of crossbow upgrades coming in. Maybe he'll pull back for his 2nd GG in a couple of turns, but I'm 4t off crusade so should be safe enough there. Every unit of mine beside the newly built archer had a promo farmed from the barbs and that really evened the odds vs his higher quality units.

In Astra I decided to complete the horseman, despite losing the +50% modifier bonus. I feel like I could wait until I get it back again to complete it but I'm not sure what to build instead and with a hot war going on right beside the city I erred on the side of finishing the units now.

In Moscow, I'm going to chop the dye forest to complete the campus. It hurts a little but that's a high priority campus. 4bpt immediately, gets the inspiration on recorded history. The policy card there will give me an extra 5bpt. It also adds 2gpp from divine spark, speeding me toward Hildegard. That sounds so good I'm wondering if I should put down some undiscounted campuses, but I shouldn't be too far away from the 3rd discounted one anyway.

Speaking of Hildegard btw, I made another discover this turn:


She'll get me the 3rd envoy in here about 12t from now when I land her. Since I switched into Diplomatic league I could immediately drop 2 envoys into Lisbon upon meeting it. The 3rd envoy will be worth 8-12gpt from commercial hubs.

Also - I'm setting up the harvests in the capital to get it to size 10 and the Eureka on Civil Service. That will put me quite close to Divine Right and the next level of government.

[TheArchduke]

Yeah getting the kill not with the sword is the right move.

Nicely done, especially placing the two encampments there.

[Grotsnot]

The legion has the symbol for a promotion, but didn't seem to be benefiting from either Battlecry or Tortoise, not sure what's up there.

I think Battlecry only applies when attacking? Could be mistaken.

He took down the walls off one of my encampments. He did more damage than I expected(only the 1 legion could attack), but I still don't quite understand how effective ranged units are against cities/encampents with/without walls.

You probably already saw but just in case: the last post on your civfanatics link has details on fighting walls. Even gets into how damage is distributed with partially-damaged walls.


Good luck!

[The Black Sword]

I think Battlecry only applies when attacking? Could be mistaken.

I think you are correct about that, also explains how he was able to 2-shot my sword afterward.

A T100 update was suggested but I've been kept pretty busy recently so a T102 one will have to do.

Rome retreated after the last reported skirmish, and though he won't accept peace in our time, I feel relatively safe over there now. The plan in the back of my mind has always been Cossack beeline -> kill someone -> win. The little voice in the back of my mind always whispered - frigates come online before Cossacks. So this turn I forced myself to sit down and really look at the situation and unfortunately I think the little voice is correct. I can almost certainly kill England with Cossacks but I will almost certainly get my coast burned in retaliation and suffer an unending occupation penalty. If I go against Rome I'm pretty sure my coast gets hit anyway, though it's vaguley possible MAD might deter England there, still unlikely though. So I don't think Cossacks are the winning the play, instead I've decided I have to be able to hold my own against England on the seas and only then finish them off with Cossacks.

So tech wise we're going directly Frigates -> Cossacks:


I would have done some things differently to get an earlier Frigate ETA if I'd figured this out quicker but not much point worrying over it now. I guess England has a head start on Cartography but I make 60bpt to his 30bpt, I still think I beat him there by a few turns. In terms of matching his quality, I'll be trying to build the Terracotta Army and faith buy one Great Admiral. I'm hoping the fact that my Empire is in better shape will result in more ships too, but he does have a lot of jungle to chop left. I'll be trying to hold all gold reserves from now on for the upgrades.



I'm going a bit too fast for the GG and might have to pass on him, not quite sure on the mechanics of that, particularly if others pass too, will need to check it out. England is making 10GA points per turn.



Divine Right will come in 4t as I complete the 2nd Temple. Medieval Faires is also important to hit, as the diplomatic policy is an upgrade of something like 12gpt. That will come as I chop out the harbours for Cartography. In general waiting to hit the Inspirations and Eurekas is slowing me down a bit.

I'm currently in Classical Republic working Natural Philosophy(+5bpt), Urban Planning, Conscription and Charismatic Leader. Divine right will let me add bonuses to walls, naval units and a Barracks to go through chopping.

Overview, including my 2 new cities: Kazan and Tula.


Kazan will chop into walls at +150% when DR comes in to immediately complete a harbour. Then overflow chop a Quadrireme into the trader necessary for Medieval Faires.

Tula will overflow chop Quadriremes into a harbour EOT 107(triggering the Cartography Eureka). Then it will continue to chop into Quads and that builder for more chops.

Voro is completing the Temple for the Divine Right Inspiration. Then it overflow chops a Quad into a Market for Guilds. Continues to build Quads.

Astra is on the Terracotta army plan. It will have a barracks 1h off completion as DR comes in and then put a chop through it at a 30% multiplier. It will also chop the furs forest to complete it.

St Pete makes over 30hpt and is down for building the Oracle. This seems like quite decent value in a size 10 city with 4 potential districts and a possible Great Admiral purchase on the horizon. It will certainly pause to pop out a builder the next time my policy cards line up though. It also needs to build a University and another pair of districts, so it will be busy.

In Moscow the university should also keep it busy for a while.

That leaves the 2 Novgorod cities to pump builders for the immediate future. I think the old civ 4 adage of you can never have enough workers rings through here too. At least another 10 seems like good value.

Some other stuff I've been thinking about:

I was going to do a round of horsemen now before the policy card goes obsolete, and save them for Cossack upgrades. On reflection it didn't seem like the best idea, particularly with me pushing the Cossack date back. I only save 27h per horse I build and for each one that's 55h I'm putting in now that's not snowballing(could be half a builder) and is costing me upkeep maintenance. Seems like I'm better off just accepting a hammer penalty later.

I finally had to clear the last barbarian camp in my north, or I was afraid Preslav would do it for me. Got a promotion for my knight and will get one for my archer by finishing off the last scout.

I wanted to switch to international trade routes as I feel gold and beakers are the limiting factor in the immediate future. But I also really want to get Novgorod to size 5 for another tundra hill mine only it can work. My next routes will probably be to the English capital though.

I have been focusing a lot on district discounts for a while but I feel like they're losing their usefulness. I need to build quite a few more districts to get the 3rd discounted Campus/Harbour/Commercial and even Lavras are over 100h now. I'd prefer to build workers. The time to invest in Campus and beakers is ending too, as I feel the tech tree almost ends at Cossacks. It doesn't actually end but the value of a beaker relative to other yields will drop significantly. Might be time to forget about discounts, just lay stuff down now for later and concentrate on army building for the future. Some of my district positioning looks a it strange if I go for this, planned with other districts in mind, but this is the type of feel for the game it's hard to get without directly playing IMO.

Crusade is bit worse than I thought, you need to be in an opposing city's culture to get the bonus(I thought it was a simply radius from the city). Still might pick it up later but I'm less enthused. The Apostle I recruited has the possibility of taking the Chaplain promotion, which seems quite useful. Probably I will spend his religious charges in my new cities and then use him as a Medic.

[The Black Sword]

Rome suzerained Seoul, the science city state, causing it to declare war on me and stopping giving me the 6bpt bonus. That hurt. Pretty nice move, if I'd thought of it last turn I could have suzerained it first.

Also Greece declared on Arabia. It feels to me like Greece are doing the worst out of my 3 competitors, partly because they invested the most into slowing down Rome. So I'm not too worried but there's certainly the potential for things to go badly if Arabia doesn't defend well. It feels like everyone should have managed to get at least one of Knights or Crossbows by now.

[The Black Sword]

For reference since I keep redoing the calculation:

Gpp yield from project = Cost/5 +5.

*Assuming formulas here are correct https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/f...ad.600534/.

[The Black Sword]

Harbours finished, Cartography waiting for the Eureka next turn:



That's the first time I've seen an English ship on the ocean so I think he just finished Cartography too. I guess I may be 5t faster to Frigates with my better tech rate.

Greece has a lot more power than Arabia. Arabia is quite backwards, but if he chops everything into units and potentially evacuates to my peninsula at the end he should be able to make it not very cost effective I think? That's what always scared me about an earlier attack on England. Plus I don't think I could have attacked with a tech advantage due to Rome keeping me occupied and England is less squishier than Arabia. But looking at that power differential(800 vs 200 ish) and then thinking about my plan of trying to fight England at sea has me a bit worried.

Anyway, I can think about defending his coastal cities(or potentially take them I guess). I think I'm going to send my units down there anyway, to beat on Buenos Aires a bit. I'll keep the un-upgraded units in the North, if I'm attacked I can upgrade to defend.

New GPs are renaissance era btw. I guess that is moderately bad for me, since it England will probably manage a decent time for his Great Admiral anyway(albeit sill 24t right now), while it really increases the faith cost for me.