[Spoilers] Gröt and Bänzai lose several screws assembling a Sweedish Strategy

[Banzailizard]

Screenshot of the latest exploits in the ERE.  Score is currently is 7625 putting us 395 away from the Norwegians.  They are still ahead but we are closing that gap. We should be able to take out Athens next turn. Those units can then head onto Sicily to establish a beachhead for taking Italy.   The units around Philippolis will heal up and move onto Dyrrhachium. The units at Constantinople will head on down to Attalea which will also be assaulted from the sea. Also look at that faith generation per turn. Man that is nice.

Norway still has the higher likelihood of walking away with the game but we have a fighting chance. EOT save for those so inclined.

[Grotsnot]

Couple big events, we bought a GG last turn and Denmark got the last one this turn:

In major news, took Athens this turn!

Also killed a few Knights around Constantinople. Next up, Attalea and Dyrrhachium!

We also unlocked Divine Right and, after much back and forth and some testing, mixed up our policies a bit. Result, as seen in the previous screenshot, is 96.7/turn and 208.5/turn

Also, transcript and EOT save

Banzailizard joined the chat.
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: I am in
Banzailizard: can you see these?
Grotsnot: ah yeah!
Grotsnot: nice
Grotsnot: sketched outline: Con attack SW and kill that one, bring a yellow zerker into the city to poke the full-health knight, green embarked zerke
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: sounds good
Banzailizard: for athens you will need to hit with a LS then 2 zerkers
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: we got spices off con btw
Grotsnot: yup! silks too
Banzailizard: we got those in treb
Grotsnot: oh treb already had those
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: still
Banzailizard: not bad
Grotsnot: ah damn can't reach the forest with the embarked green one
Banzailizard: its ok
Banzailizard: damage it enough and it will be meaningess
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: to itally
Banzailizard: oh
Grotsnot: almost got him
Banzailizard: well ok
Banzailizard: by athens? or maybe onto the farm for a pullage
Banzailizard: to heal up
Grotsnot: hmm is it worth risking this guy by the farm>
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: ah he cannot do that this turn
Banzailizard: hm,
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: I would say no then
Grotsnot: could sit on the grassland but risks the knight
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: he is a lvl 2
Banzailizard: hit athens with the full str LS then the 2 zerkers
Banzailizard: ah ok
Banzailizard: or we can do philip
Grotsnot: should phil charge out west right away or heal a turn?
Banzailizard: we have a lot of promotions do not move the horse yet
Grotsnot: oh sure athens is simple
Banzailizard: I say move a bit west
Banzailizard: but promote and heal
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: we should be able to do both
Grotsnot: so you said LS + 2Z?
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: full str
Banzailizard: not sure if the order matters
Grotsnot: huzzah
Banzailizard: zoc?
Grotsnot: yeah >_<
Grotsnot: oh well
Grotsnot: horse flee or promote and tank a hit?
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: before we decide
Banzailizard: look at russia
Banzailizard: do we want to send a horse back to chase down the horse there?
Grotsnot: hmmmm
Banzailizard: I would say 2 options 1. promote and tank a hit horse near philip ggoes to dryy
Banzailizard: 2. send the horse near philip to russia
Banzailizard: athens horse goes to philip and promote heals
Grotsnot: hmm hmm hmm
Banzailizard: I htink there is a camp there
Banzailizard: which is why I was sending him that way
Grotsnot: yeah but now there's a !ed huscarl too
Banzailizard: right
Banzailizard: so thoughts on the use of hoses?
Grotsnot: well we do seem to have enough Zs in the area
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: I would inch up and promote to heal
Banzailizard: from philip
Grotsnot: yeah I think there's too many hills for both horses to help a lot
Grotsnot: so going north works
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: we just need one to outflank for sidge
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: think worth moving onto the iron before healing?
Grotsnot: he'll take an arrow even if only 1E
Grotsnot: erm
Grotsnot: west
Grotsnot: not east
Banzailizard: how much damage can the city do?
Grotsnot: uh
Grotsnot: some?
Grotsnot: :P
Banzailizard: I mean
Banzailizard: I am ok with it
Grotsnot: hard to say, I don't think I've seen an ERE xbow
Grotsnot: so I think it's still at archer strength
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: yeah I am fine with it
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: makes more room on the road to move more units and heal
Grotsnot: tortoise maybe though?
Grotsnot: just to be safe
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: and to be safe
Banzailizard: I would move the ram only 1
Banzailizard: hard to get a new one up there its slow
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: Dyrr or Italy with this one? He can get pretty close to Dyrr and heal
Banzailizard: I say Gyrr
Banzailizard: dyrr*
Banzailizard: athens can go to italy
Grotsnot: kk
Grotsnot: oh commando awesome
Grotsnot: so we can get two slugs in on Dyrr next turn
Grotsnot: should drop its walls
Banzailizard: perfect
Grotsnot: hm
Grotsnot: amphib is kinda useless
Grotsnot: Battlecry?
Banzailizard: yeah battlecry
Banzailizard: to get twoards commando
Grotsnot: I suspect Commando is better promo #3 than the actual tier 3 promos
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: wait
Grotsnot: ah crap
Grotsnot: sorry
Banzailizard: maybe move him to the hills
Banzailizard: ah ok
Banzailizard: np
Grotsnot: I was thinking he needed to get all the way away from the knight
Banzailizard: was thining of outflanking but its fine he would have eaten an encampment
Banzailizard: yeah this is fine
Grotsnot: caparison->depredation?
Banzailizard: what does double envelopment do
Banzailizard: does it apply to all units
Banzailizard: or just the horse?
Grotsnot: hmm
Banzailizard: I think just the horse
Grotsnot: gotta look it up
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: because if its all units that is pretty good
Grotsnot: wiki says "receives"
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: so not as useful
Banzailizard: so just the horse
Banzailizard: right
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: so yeah Cap Dep
Grotsnot: if he have +4 to others that would be nice
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: hmm hmm thinking have the HC and LSs just pause a turn to heal since they're red
Grotsnot: and no promos
Banzailizard: move to wine and heal in place?
Banzailizard: just want hom off the road out of the way
Grotsnot: true true
Grotsnot: but moving means no healing
Banzailizard: does it?
Banzailizard: ok nvm then heal up
Banzailizard: I think the builder should repair philip's wine
Banzailizard: then the 2 crabs the next 2 turns
Grotsnot: mm
Banzailizard: get it back into operational shape
Grotsnot: yeah makes sense
Grotsnot: oh I think the knight could maybe reach the wines
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: well to the crabs then
Grotsnot: jj
Grotsnot: kk
Grotsnot: xbow heal?
Banzailizard: jj could have meant jaja
Banzailizard: yes heal
Grotsnot: heh
Grotsnot: oh wow he got away with 1HP
Grotsnot: damn
Banzailizard: yus
Banzailizard: so he needs to heal in the city center
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: heal up LS around athens I guess
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: crete boat?
Banzailizard: let him heal 1 more turn
Grotsnot: could heal again while waiting to help with attalea
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: exactly
Banzailizard: I think the builder in Tmu
Banzailizard: should just repair the wine
Banzailizard: since we have spices
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: con builder sit tight?
Banzailizard: that builder can fo repair the silks nex turn when it is safe the one on the fish can go to the other fish
Banzailizard: move him up one to the full HP zerker?
Banzailizard: just to get him closer to the target
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: or maybe
Banzailizard: onto the spices
Banzailizard: would be better
Grotsnot: he has enough move he doesn't need to leave the city
Banzailizard: ah k
Grotsnot: can move to the farm, activate, and the cat starts with full move to shoot the city
Banzailizard: we shoud pillage those monestaries ont he way if we can
Banzailizard: we don't get them
Grotsnot: we just need the knights cleared out
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: yeah pillage is good
Banzailizard: should we peak at venice
Banzailizard: or do we want to keep that ship close?
Grotsnot: I'm thinkin builder and GG just sit
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: hmm
Banzailizard: there is a builder on the fish
Banzailizard: move him west
Banzailizard: are there any other LS in the area?
Banzailizard: who can block the builders?
Grotsnot: not quite
Banzailizard: hmm k
Grotsnot: I'm not sure they're gonna block us though
Grotsnot: looks like the one at least was heading west
Grotsnot: how the hell is it on the encampment?
Banzailizard: IDK
Grotsnot: so I'm leaning look at venice
Grotsnot: no pillage available anywhere else
Banzailizard: well neither can make it to that sea zone
Banzailizard: so I am ok
Banzailizard: if they block it will be on land
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: I think we have enough space to take it
Banzailizard: so let's see what venice looks like
Grotsnot: oo pilage
Grotsnot: grab the monastery
Banzailizard: sure
Grotsnot: no norway around
Banzailizard: all good signs
Banzailizard: maybe venice is a doable target
Banzailizard: ancient walls?
Grotsnot: yeah!
Grotsnot: nice
Banzailizard: nice
Grotsnot: rome too
Banzailizard: yeah I know
Grotsnot: I'm guessing all CS do
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: we can maybe go Dryy
Banzailizard: rome
Banzailizard: venice
Banzailizard: and athens
Banzailizard: balarm
Banzailizard: Neapolis
Banzailizard: or maybe Al-Qay
Grotsnot: sounds good
Banzailizard: They will have an army in the area in 2 turns though
Banzailizard: settle sciily
Banzailizard: buy chop buy chop
Grotsnot: I would lean away from Neapolis if we have the option of another
Grotsnot: least pop and hardest walls
Banzailizard: ram and 3 zerkers
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: wait what
Grotsnot: you saw zerkers around last turn?
Banzailizard: 4 turns sorry
Banzailizard: no
Banzailizard: but
Banzailizard: oh right they would need to move them
Banzailizard: so
Banzailizard: maybe 4 or 5 turns
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: but they can get an army out of sardina
Banzailizard: very quickly
Grotsnot: gives us enough time to contest it
Grotsnot: they can only buy 1 z per turn at least
Banzailizard: 'd expect them to go to rome
Banzailizard: to try and cut us off from N itally
Banzailizard: or maybe scily to use thier navy
Grotsnot: hmm yeah that makes sense
Banzailizard: now we could block rome's shores
Grotsnot: oh nice we can get in the settler's way a bit
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: no reason not to
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: just surprised they left it open
Grotsnot: so it'll take them 2 turns to settle now
Banzailizard: lot of ships in the area
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: so the other 2 boats
Banzailizard: I like the one off scily where it is
Banzailizard: the other should move out to sea and heal
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: stay west or head to dyrr?
Grotsnot: I think we'll need a boat off the coast to get it under seige
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: to dryy
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: with the pillage in the adriatic might as well leave that one boat up there
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: I'd almost want to skip Dryy
Grotsnot: oh?
Banzailizard: I mean
Banzailizard: its 5 pop
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: hm
Grotsnot: well
Grotsnot: we're kinda committed now
Grotsnot: it's in the way
Banzailizard: but we do need to kock down the walls either way
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: might as well
Banzailizard: it should fall quickly enough
Grotsnot: it's still something
Grotsnot: 150 religion + a city
Banzailizard: yeah not going to complain just thinking timeline wise if it wer enot where it is
Banzailizard: I ould have saif to go back for it
Grotsnot: no norway around sicily at least
Banzailizard: take a shot you think
Banzailizard: andd earn exp
Banzailizard: oh
Grotsnot: hm
Grotsnot: oh
Banzailizard: that is ok
Grotsnot: sorry too late
Banzailizard: there will be other chances
Grotsnot: needs like 3 hits to promo
Banzailizard: wine in tunis
Banzailizard: looks repaired
Banzailizard: hmm
Grotsnot: I'm kinda leaning merchant republic
Banzailizard: almost thinking merchant republic no
Banzailizard: w
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: kk
Grotsnot: we don't need many military slots
Banzailizard: I didn't want recorded history becuase of the policy thing but with the boost and all
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: 4 turns running more slots and a better bonus is just better overall
Banzailizard: we have a policy swap if we want it
Grotsnot: yikes 2 missionaries to boost theology
Grotsnot: that's not worth the VP
Grotsnot: ah yeah
Banzailizard: we might need one though
Banzailizard: check the religion of the cities we plan to take
Grotsnot: scripture is good with the staves
Grotsnot: ah yeah good point
Banzailizard: hmm we should find out if Scripture or sim gives more faith
Grotsnot: well that's another advantage to taking Dyrr
Grotsnot: another catholic city
Banzailizard: or maybe both and switch out travlling monks
Banzailizard: sec
Banzailizard: let me test
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: I cannot steam and play a game at the same time
Banzailizard: hmm hmm
Banzailizard: what are the sourses of our faith
Grotsnot: ah ok
Grotsnot: Con is the biggest
Banzailizard: can you hover over it though
Banzailizard: the faith per turn
Banzailizard: in the top left
Grotsnot: it just says by city not by type
Banzailizard: or that
Banzailizard: ok yeah so con and hels
Banzailizard: and philip
Banzailizard: so what boosts those the most
Banzailizard: can you hit the city details tabe for each and look at the buildings?
Banzailizard: it should tell you what is generating how much
Banzailizard: like if you click the city and hit the scroll
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: that works
Grotsnot: adjacency would give us like +15
Banzailizard: and buildings x2
Grotsnot: I think the same
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: I missed a few
Banzailizard: how much are we getting from naval infrustruture? and how much faith from travlling merchants?
Banzailizard: we can compare GPT and FPT by converitng both to VP
Grotsnot: I'm leaning toward adjacency bonus at least
Grotsnot: hmm hmm
Banzailizard: yeah I think it will work out that we want sim scrip
Grotsnot: we get 36gpt from trade policy
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: we can agree we should ditch meritocracy its very little
Banzailizard: its only for 5 turns either way
Banzailizard: then we get more slots
Grotsnot: looks like 58 total harbor adjacency
Grotsnot: so 29gpt from the card?
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: round it to 30
Banzailizard: so 3 per turn for that
Banzailizard: how many local routes do we have?
Banzailizard: TR I mean
Grotsnot: we have 50 districts looks like
Grotsnot: unless that's counting ones in progress
Banzailizard: might be
Grotsnot: only 6
Banzailizard: so 12 faith or 2 per turn
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: I am thinking for now
Banzailizard: we run scripture and sim
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: naval infrustricurte
Banzailizard: insulea
Grotsnot: isn't trade confederation earning more than naval?
Banzailizard: oh right
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: ok run that
Banzailizard: how much is meritocary earning?
Grotsnot: it should be like 40 but not sure
Banzailizard: oh
Grotsnot: that doesn't add up
Banzailizard: that is pretty good
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: let me stop the stream for a sec
Banzailizard: and test this
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: sorry been partially distracted
Grotsnot: wife has a movie in the background
Banzailizard left the chat.
Banzailizard joined the chat.
Banzailizard: back
Grotsnot: ah okay yeah can use this
Banzailizard: we  might loose a trader to the horse too
Grotsnot: hmmm
Grotsnot: ah
Grotsnot: bugger
Banzailizard: ohh
Banzailizard: can we use the GG?
Grotsnot: bah
Grotsnot: 1 move away
Banzailizard: that might be worth saving 2 traders
Banzailizard: what if we put him just in the way
Grotsnot: sure
Grotsnot: stone?
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: speaking of stone send the 1 builder down there to build the quary north of zap
Grotsnot: hmm hmm
Grotsnot: ah yes
Banzailizard: not sure what to do with that builder
Grotsnot: yeah...
Grotsnot: forests by gnez?
Grotsnot: knock out a CH?
Banzailizard: its a 5 charge though
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: sounds like a plan
Banzailizard: forest just north of Gnez so it does not effect the HS
Grotsnot: so... W?
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: or should we tempt the horse again :P
Banzailizard: no not with that one
Banzailizard: I would move it south west
Grotsnot: wait what
Grotsnot: which were we talking about then?
Banzailizard: the one outside keiv
Banzailizard: can it make it anywhere safe?
Grotsnot: kinda
Grotsnot: behind the gg?
Grotsnot: well
Banzailizard: no
Grotsnot: shoot the horse can go around
Banzailizard: they have portage
Grotsnot: right right
Banzailizard: just camp him in keiv I guess
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: the sw truffles does work but not sure if that gets him to gnez any faster
Banzailizard: right
Banzailizard: not really witht he road and all
Banzailizard: SESE?
Grotsnot: yeah I think all 3 of these
Grotsnot: right?
Banzailizard: wellt he one zerker can fo SE SW maybe?
Banzailizard: in case the horse cuts west
Banzailizard: ah right
Grotsnot: hmm hmm
Banzailizard: ok SESE
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: forgot we has another unit
Grotsnot: oh right we need to move either the builder or the GG
Grotsnot: since both are civvies
Banzailizard: move the builder onto the spices
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: wait
Banzailizard: or into the sea
Banzailizard: either or
Grotsnot: what for?
Grotsnot: yeah I was thinking fix the fish
Grotsnot: we don't need a 3rd silk
Banzailizard: we have a builder in the sea
Banzailizard: who can fix the fish faster
Banzailizard: well same time
Grotsnot: hmm true
Grotsnot: maybe send that one west and this one north?
Banzailizard: and con does not have that many tiles to work
Banzailizard: what is it working right now?
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: oh the other fish is treb's
Banzailizard: so as it grows I think we will want that repaired silk
Grotsnot: so sure silk
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: but the one to the west
Banzailizard: is con
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: patch ladoga farm?
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: don't forget to move the builer west of con to repair tha fish
Grotsnot: fucking norway, man
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: but looks like the danes have them in a stalemate
Grotsnot: hopefully
Banzailizard: east?
Grotsnot: hmm
Banzailizard: camp over that way
Banzailizard: for the zerker north of lad
Grotsnot: not that worth kills for kills sake
Grotsnot: now that GGs are all gone
Banzailizard: yeah but gold is nice
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: E gets hit by 2 HCs
Banzailizard: the north most zerker
Banzailizard: can back off
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: the southern one can go what NE?
Grotsnot: on to the furst maybe?
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: oh for him?
Grotsnot: hey the camp
Banzailizard: no SE
Grotsnot: nice
Grotsnot: oh
Banzailizard: oh well ok
Banzailizard: ok what is left
Banzailizard: I think just some production
Grotsnot: con build and I think that's it
Grotsnot: I set Athens to Granary and Phil to harbor
Banzailizard: EC on the desert?
Grotsnot: ah yeah that works
Banzailizard: how much hosing does it have?
Banzailizard: we can build both a harbor and an EC
Banzailizard: harbros are not speciality in this
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: is an EC?
Banzailizard: proably
Banzailizard: but con has eveything else
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: so put it down first to be safe
Grotsnot: kk
Grotsnot: harbor is faster
Grotsnot: ?
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: and we can get housing off it if needed
Grotsnot: kk
Grotsnot: nice
Banzailizard: I do not think we are hurting for amenities right now anyways
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: well
Grotsnot: I guess could use a few
Grotsnot: but not critical
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: well the big cities will build EC
Banzailizard: when they get the chance
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: plus we have settlers coming out soon
Grotsnot: what are we willing to offer denmark for dyes
Grotsnot: 2? 3?
Grotsnot: 2 and see if they counter?
Banzailizard: wine and silk
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: damn norway got money
Banzailizard: 100 vp worth
Banzailizard: GPT?
Grotsnot: hopefully we have more faith than them at least
Grotsnot: ah yes
Grotsnot: comparable
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: oh buy a trader for us
Grotsnot: ah yes
Banzailizard: we have a lot of TR
Grotsnot: Birka-Odense?
Banzailizard: we should max those out on gold where not needed for domestic asap
Grotsnot: oh wait
Grotsnot: Birka is building one
Grotsnot: Apu?
Banzailizard: sure
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: all set?
Grotsnot: I suppose can review citizen
Banzailizard: did we policy sawap?
Grotsnot: oh shit right
Banzailizard: lol after all that
Grotsnot: just sim for insulae right?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: so we are brinign in about 40 VP per turn in gold anf faith combined
Grotsnot: sweeeeet
Banzailizard: and we have 188 faith banked as VP
Grotsnot: damn
Banzailizard: or
Banzailizard: faith banked as 188 VP
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: should we sap riga's farms back over?
Grotsnot: hm?
Banzailizard: I was running triga on the 2 farms
Banzailizard: to grow rather than Apu
Banzailizard: oh riga has a lot of housing so maube its fine
Grotsnot: Apu is pushing housing so may as well
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: it'll grow more easily once the settler finishes
Banzailizard: right
Grotsnot: maybe swap then
Banzailizard: yeah we'll let riga grow a bit more
Grotsnot: oh
Banzailizard: bleh almost wish we had blined merchen republic now
Grotsnot: should kiev steal the stone?
Grotsnot: ohh
Grotsnot: bugger
Banzailizard: who has it now and are either of them using it?
Grotsnot: the stupid culture expansion swapped away from the copper
Banzailizard: ites fine
Banzailizard: we need that coper to stay where it is for 5 turns
Grotsnot: zap doesn't need the one cog
Grotsnot: oh?
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: oh gnez
Banzailizard: yeah only has 5 spaces
Banzailizard: for 5 pops
Grotsnot: ohh
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: so yeah swapping the stone works then
Banzailizard: nice
Banzailizard: down to 20
Banzailizard: and even fwer when we quary
Grotsnot: ugh come on culture grab the fucking hills
Grotsnot: ^yup!
Banzailizard: no it will grab the bonus wheat
Banzailizard: we should repair that farm next
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: and then the crabs and fish if needed
Grotsnot: is the growth from the fish worth 3gpt compared to the market?
Grotsnot: cuts growth time in half
Banzailizard: no work the market
Banzailizard: running out of housing
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: hmm well
Banzailizard: we could grow
Banzailizard: and then work both
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: so I guess 15g to get the pop sooner
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: ok cool
Banzailizard: treb needs help it has a lot of good tiles but those fish need to be repaired
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: looks good
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: I think we're done
Grotsnot: want me to post EOT?
Banzailizard: sure
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: need to go really work on HW now
Banzailizard: <<
Grotsnot: haha
Banzailizard: then maybe if I have time
Grotsnot: sorry took so long
Banzailizard: I can uppdate score tracking
Banzailizard: nah
Grotsnot: neato
Banzailizard: it was a big turn
Banzailizard: lot of policies to consider
Grotsnot: ayup
Grotsnot: ok gonna pass turn and close out the stream chat
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: just grab the logs
Grotsnot: oh hey saw we got a trade post somewhere
Grotsnot: peek of the notification at EOT
Grotsnot: nice
Banzailizard: would be good to let people know what we are thinkig
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: I got far enough behind on reports that the weight slows it down more >_>
Banzailizard: sometimes its better
Banzailizard: to just report where we are now
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: that is what people will be comparing between threads
Grotsnot: ah, true

[Banzailizard]

Just in case anyone is interested in the calculations between the policies

Caravans 36 GPT = 3.6 VPPT (Victory Points per turn)
Naval - 21 GPT = 2.1 VPPT
Sim = 23.5 FPT = 4.7 VPPT
Scrip = 17 FPT = 3.4 VPPT
merit = 18 FPT = 3.6 VPPT
Monks = 12 FPT =2.4 VPPT

So we should have run Simultaneum Scripture and Meritocracy for max VP but we opted to run Caravans and Naval Infrastructure for the gold.  That gold can be converted into traders which will more than pay for the VP invested with extra. At least they will for the next few turns, but I would say after turn 40 we will switch to hard building only on traders and focus a bit more on faith generation. We have far more TR capacity so we should be able to leverage that into massive GPT.  We have 7 available routes.  If they all go to gold generating around 14 per turn its 88 gold per turn. That means almost 9 VP extra per turn. We are making 20 VP per turn now.

And that really is the game now, how best to convert our resources to victory points.  Food becomes pop becomes victory points. Housing is the real lock on our growth rather than amenities.  We thankfully have a number of settlers coming out which should mean we can squeeze out some more religion VP from a number of small sized cities. If we plant 4 of them and each hits a pop of say 3 that is the same as capturing a size 12 city.  Plus the added benefit of the extra 75 VP for 3 more cities. At this rate we would be lucky if any of them can really get down any CH or Harbors.  Might even be worth planting a few on the Scandinavian coast now.  1 city and chop out a harbor.  1 settler becomes 135 VP - 10 VP for a base pop +50 for religion +50 for 2 trade routes from the harbor, plus 25 VP from being a city. We can probably only fit 2 of 3 such cities but even then, its 270-405VP which is the same as taking a small city.

Grot suggested in an earlier chat buying settlers and you know he is probably right.  The settlers would have to cost 1350 gold for the two options to be even (though we can discount that for the sake of the opportunity cost represented by the builder charges to chop the harbors.) Hell even just a base 60+25 VP (empire,catholic pop, city) for a total of 85 means that settlers can cost 850 gold and be worth buying to plant down. Any growth on top of that is just gravy.

[Grotsnot]

Good stuff! Not much else to say since we hash stuff out over Steam

For the lurkers, I can expand on the long-term conquest objectives a bit:
* Team Balkans is going from Philippopolis to Dyrrhachium and then up the Italian coast to - if available - Rome and Venice. Neapolis is smaller and a harder target so saving it for last
* Team Med has just taken Athens and is about to set sail for Sicily, and from there on to North Africa
* Team Anatolia has secured Constantinople Miklagard (need to remember to rename that!) and is going to move on to Attalea. After that they will sail for the Med - probably Neapolis?

All subject to change depending on where Norway decides to interfere. They have a settler off the coast of Sardinia that we've been trying to stall a bit. Will enable them to buy troops to attack Italy with. And they've been making a lot of hay over in France and Iberia: looks like Denmark is gonna get hosed again at Cordoba Norway has basically the whole of those regions - only Narbonne remains for Charlie, Cordoba and Valencia for the Moors, and Arles as an independent CS. It looked like Denmark was gonna get Arles, hopefully that remains the case. Hopefully they have a shot at Cordoba + Narbonne and/or Pisa, too.

There are 12 remaining AI cities:
Attalea - securely ours
Dyrrhachium - securely ours
Neapolis - probably ours, but contestable since we aren't going for it right away
Balarm (Sicily) - likely ours
Al-Qayrawan - maybe ours
Roma - maybe ours
* I would say we have very good odds of getting 1 of [Neapolis, Roma] and 1 of [Balarm, AQ], depending on where Norway spends their energies. Decent odds of getting 3 out of the 4. All 4 is unlikely. Norway's best odds are probably Roma and AQ due to being closer to them than we are. We can try to disrupt their landing in North Africa but it'll be difficult to do for an extended period.
Venezia - probably ours if we don't get both of Roma and Neapolis. Otherwise whoever gets Pisa/Roma has a decent chance.
Pisa - not ours, hopefully Denmark
Narbonne - not ours, hopefully Denmark
* Unfortunately the Danes have had a really bad streak of luck, so I'm not expecting them to pull off both of these. But I think their Army Group which I'm assuming is Arles-bound can roll on into one of them
Arles - probably Denmark. I want to rate it securely Denmark but the Norwegians have been right bastards again and again so who knows what's going over there
Valencia - probably Norway, unless they bypass it to get to the central med
Cordoba - from our perspective it's a toss-up, but I'm giving the edge to the Norskjavlar

I think that totals to ~5 maybe 6 for us, 2 maybe 3 for Denmark, 4-6 for Norway?

Not sure how the exact population will shake out (especially since I can't see the pop for several of the cities) but looks like we should keep pace pretty well. Though unlikely to gain much ground. As of End-of-Turn, we're down by about 500VP:


Our Settler game should be able to catch us up on that! Gonna be a close one, though. Need to not get outfoxed in the Med, if Norway pulls off a swing of 6 to our 4 or takes Denmark's stuff it'll get a lot harder. Could come down to faith and gold VP? Might be wishful thinking


I know reporting quality has declined again the backlog just starts to weigh things down, so gonna try and cut that off and just move forward. Will try to go back and fill in the gap of the early ERE conquest but no promises >_>

[Sullla]

You don't need to do super elaborate turn reports; in particular, posting every chat log of your discussions is unnecessary. One of the important things to learn about writing reports is knowing what can be cut out while still conveying all of the important stuff to readers. Honestly, just a couple of screenshots along with a brief description of what's going on right now and what you're planning to do next are more than enough. Don't stress yourself out about what happened eight turns ago - it's over and done with now. We want to watch the victory point race over the remaining turns.

[Banzailizard]

Our Settler game should be able to catch us up on that! Gonna be a close one, though. Need to not get outfoxed in the Med, if Norway pulls off a swing of 6 to our 4 or takes Denmark's stuff it'll get a lot harder. Could come down to faith and gold VP? Might be wishful thinking

You say wishful thinking I say have a little faith  .
I'll show myself out now.

But wait! Just some quick notes of things we should do this evening for our turn.

1. Assertain if crabs and copper can be harvested, if so for how much gold.
2. Plan out which cities to plant first.
2 b. Figure out if we will need missionaries and if so how many charges they have.  Convert the faith for a missionary into VP add that to the gold cost (in VP) for buying settlers compare to the VP the settler will generate.
3. Calculate the faith and/or gold cost of faith buildings see if rush buying provides a good enough return to get us out ahead by turn 60.

Damn you know if we captured Tmu with full pop we might might be in the lead.  All well no sense crying over spilt Mead.

[Grotsnot]

 You don't need to do super elaborate turn reports; in particular, posting every chat log of your discussions is unnecessary. One of the important things to learn about writing reports is knowing what can be cut out while still conveying all of the important stuff to readers. Honestly, just a couple of screenshots along with a brief description of what's going on right now and what you're planning to do next are more than enough. Don't stress yourself out about what happened eight turns ago - it's over and done with now. We want to watch the victory point race over the remaining turns. [Image: smile.gif]

Yeah, that's definitely what I struggle with - instinct is to throw it all up there

The idea behind the chat logs was that we don't usually do much strategizing in-thread so it's there to show the thought process. I suspect the main weakness is that I'm too lazy to edit them down so it just blurs into a blob of text >_>

Side benefit of Banzai taking a turn behind the wheel is providing a good excuse for me to stop feeling weighed down by catching up on old turns and just push ahead with the new

2 b. Figure out if we will need missionaries and if so how many charges they have.  Convert the faith for a missionary into VP add that to the gold cost (in VP) for buying settlers compare to the VP the settler will generate.

We have Dyrrhachium, Neapolis, and Rome as pre-converted potential conquests. The rest of the remaining cities are all pagan (including the ERE Attalea ). Well, except for Narbonne but that's way out of reach. Cordoba and Valencia are Islamic so hopefully that forces Norway to spend some faith on Missionaries?

Anyway, so at best that leaves us with a +1 Catholic swing from conquests and fairly likely break-even or maybe -1. Further reason for the Dyrr team to go around Neapolis and push hard for Rome 

Do you remember where we currently sit as far conversions? We currently have... [counts minimap] 19 cities and I wanna say something like 7 are Pagan? We've grabbed a lot of pre-converted cities from the Byzantines.

So, pessimistically, let's say we get 3 Pagan conquests to 2 Christian. Should leave us with 10 Pagan and 14 Christian total, right? So we can afford at least 3 more Settlers before we need Missionaries - which I think coincidentally is how many Settlers we currently have under construction (Kop+Apu+Riga). Totally planned that

We also gotta remember to check how much a Missionary costs for sure. I wanna say ~130 but would be surprised if I'm remembering it exactly right Even up to like 250 is a worthwhile investment for grabbing more cities: I'm pretty sure the initial pop of a new city counts for the 50VP if we're still religious post-settle.

[Banzailizard]

If we think we have enough good sites for settlers it make sense to send the missionary out now with the settlers to convert when they are small. I think that missionary charges convert a number of population so a 1 pop city should be immediately converted. Some of that charge will be "wasted" but we do not benefit from the number of pops converted just the number of cities. It also lessens the risk of us getting stuck as pagan when we do not want to. Finally, since we are banking the faith for VP there is no benefit to spending it now vs spending it latter other than the risk of spending it then not needing it if Norway grabs more cities than we thought. I'd be fine waiting a few turns but I would rather not have to delay taking a city by a turn because it is pagan and will tip us back.

I think I recall missionaries being 120 faith for some reason which would mean one missionary is worth 60 VP. That is conveniently the same as a population. So long as converting a city would mean we get one more catholic pop its an even trade-off.

[Grotsnot]

Nitpick: 120 is only 24VP So if it comes with 2 charges then it's a 4x ROI just to settle another city for 50 Religion VP. Though that admittedly doesn't factor in the cost of the Settler

[Banzailizard]

I did the grunt work last turn so I will update quickly to take some pressure off Grot.


We took Dyrrhachium this turn.  Set it to working on repairing a granary to deal with the housing shortage.  That horse has a promotion.  The rest of the units are going full speed to Rome.  The hope is to catch Norway off guard.  They might think we are headed to Neapolis which is closer, but if we bipass and try to take out the less defensible Rome, they might not be able to get units there in time.  Their LS in the area partially spoils that but even if it buys us a turn of flatfooted-ness that will be ok.


There are worries on that front because as you can see here they have a Corp on the way thanks to a GG.  They left the Ram.  Hopefully they are going for Pisa or Arles and not trying to grab Rome like us. More likely they will settle sardian and buy a ram to send forward.

Norway is still in a standoff with Denmark over Corduba.  The longer that continues the better as it ties up Norway's troops. That is also our worst case plan for Rome.  Best case is we take it, but if we get stuck in another Wolin-esqu standoff around Rome it just gives the rest of our army, which is far away but available soon, a chance to catch up.

Scores are included as well for the hell of it.  We are not so far behind as the big numbers make us look, but still behind by 750 ish.
We almost got the walls of Attalea down but fell just short.  Worried for our redlined LS but nothing we can do about it.  Either way, this should fall next turn, and we will get 2 faith pillage monasteries out of the deal.

I have a screenshot, but had to run before posting, of our Athens troops on their way to Sicily then North Africa.

I'll talk about our homeland plans latter. More screenshots etc.

I would like, if I have the time, to update the score graphs and try to do some calculations of the points left on the board this weekend. I think we are still depending on growth.

I will say this has been a blast of a game to play.  I am sorry the Danes got a bit shafted, but otherwise I have found it all surprisingly close.