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5.58 Brainstorming thread

(April 3rd, 2019, 03:19)Seravy Wrote:
Quote:- Z for next city 
Most likely wasn't compatible if it's not already included. (although I admit sometimes I simply forget to save the changes into a patch file)

Just found out that in insecticide, X was used instead of Z, and that still works in 1.5 smile
I guess that's why. I wonder why you changed it to Z? Did you miss that and redo the work?

You haven't answered concerning engineers. I think that that change should really be undone in MoM. A staple tactic there was to cast endurance and pathfinding on your engineers, the former increasing their effectiveness (does endurance still work? not that I'd afford 90 skill on an engineer) and the latter making them start working on the next tile 1 turn earlier but without change to later planned work.
Your version builds pathfinding in and makes it pointless on engineers. Plus there's the issue of the very easy hack of right clicking the engineer stack to give them another order, which doubles their speed. Plus flying ships, but that's when you've already won anyhow...
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Ah, I have perhaps found another change you introduced? Sprites aren't attacking once they're out of ammo. That seems a carry over of your AI work.
Is there a place where I should report bugs for the MoM RC?


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Finally some actualy 5.57 brainstorming ideas ^_^'

  1. capacity should be for warrior mages not for mages
  2. maybe the elven archer should be a warrior mage rather than "any"? Having very unrelated abilities might be fun for the unknown but for the elven archer, that has a very clear focus, it kind of sucks
  3. more substantial idea: I despise having to accept an hero and kill them (while winning to avoid loss of fame) to prevent finding them as prisoners or another offer. Why don't you kill them on active refusal? 
  4. It would be interesting to know when a hero is silently refused for lack of gold. That'd also help newbies I think. (but don't kill them in that case wink
  5. Oh, and as I proposed somewhere else, how about making nightshade protect also the city area and not only the city itself against volcanoes and corruption? It's not a super powerful 'mineral'.
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Quote:Just found out that in insecticide, X was used instead of Z, and that still works in 1.5

X is for next city, that's an insecticide feature.
Z is for previous city, that's an additional CoM feature. I thought you were asking about this one.

Quote:You haven't answered concerning engineers.
I'm not going to reintroduce a greater bug (always taking 1 turn longer) to prevent a smaller one (sometimes building 2 tiles). There isn't a solution that is completely bug-free.

This is the MoM RC thread : https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...p?tid=8411

The flying stall AI tactic is present in it, yes, it was compatible. It's not as elaborate as in CoM, MoM RC only has the first version as far as I remember.

1. Doesn't work that way. A "warrior mage" ability can apply on a warrior, a mage, or a warrior mage. Out of these a warrior isn't guaranteed to have a ranged attack.
2. What's wrong with having leader type abilities on her? Those are generally the most useful stuff you can get for this particular hero. (she already has capacity and blademaster by default so not much is left to increase her bow effectiveness anyway. And she isn't that useful for melee due to high ammo.)
3. Interesting idea but sometimes people refuse a hero they want later because they need the gold some a specific purpose.
Hiring a killing a hero is an advanced tactic one can actively decide on using, and it's not free : you have to pay the steep hiring or summoning cost for the hero. Making it free and automatic would make the game dumber. In fact, in games where you aren't planning on using heroes, it's better to not use this strategy.
4. This is one of those things that can be useful once in a while but usually players will want to turn it off because it's annoying. Wasting an optional setting variable on it (do we even have any left?) isn't worth it.
5. Against it. Corrupting the Nightshade tile is the intended way to deal with Nightshade when playing a curse strategy.
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I'd love to know every time a hero gets refused for not having enough gold, but I'd rather it included in the turn summary, like when a city increases population. It's about equally as annoying as that, but it matters enough that we still like the option to see it every time it happens.

I agree with seravy, the game should never kill a hero for you.
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I can't add new types of reports and I'm not even sure it happens in the correct order.
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OK continuing there about MoM.

Heroes:
1. then make capacity warriors only, having it on a leader mage that won't ever shoot sucks.
2. isn't the elven archer attack magical? arcane power comes to mind.
3. come on, how many times have you refused a hero thinking "I really hope he gets back later"? Having to kill them is really annoying...
How about adding a "never come back" button?
4. It's not super useful but it's interesting and a good learning prop for newbies. I don't think that it happens that often that it would be annoying? Barring perhaps famous, but those fill up their slots quickly... We can avoid the message for when you already have 6 heroes.
5. Nightshade could use some other boost, it's a bit mediocre.
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1. Typo? Warriors often can't shoot, why would they need capacity?
2. True, forgot about that one. But the average leader abilities are still better than the average mage abilities (Sage, Ritual Master and AEther Master are all pretty bad for a champion, it's too late in the game for them).
3. New buttons are way too difficult to add for something minor like this.

An idea how to fix :
Quote:...there is no building destruction if a city is conquered without combat. This opens up the possibility of abuse : make the AI summon something, kill all units except the summon, retreat, send whatever leftover unit you have around into the empty city : voila, no buildings lost.

We could make it so that combat loads even if there are zero defenders. The battle will end on the first turn before any moves because one side has no more surviving units, the same way as attacking Floating Islands. As a secondary positive effect, this means the "conquer empty city" procedure will no longer be used which eliminates the bad redundancy (two different procedures handling the end of combat and combat results, so any gold, fame etc gain or loss is in the code at two different places, making it harder to change as well as opening up the possibility that they end up different and we don't notice.)


Currently watching this (up to part 7 already)  :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGuDuVpyl6c

No way around it, time to face reality, treasure as a concept is kinda broken. The human player will ALWAYS find a way to get it much earlier than intended, and hog all 5 player's worth of it for himself which is generally enough to win the game on its own. It doesn't really matter if it's spamming fire bolts, confusions, phantom warriors, using ranged units, or what.
While I don't like it, we might want to seriously consider making lair monsters respawn if partially killed. It's too much advantage for the human player that they can kill the things one at a time while the AI is forced to kill them all in one attack.
Unfortunately, treasure hunting is fun, so changing it would make the game less enjoyable. Same for reducing the amount of treasure, which hits more casual players the hardest. There is one other real alternative though - increasing the AI bonuses for high difficulty, or better, giving them a way to "cheat" on lairs on high difficulty. If the Human is too good at it, all we need to do is raise the AI to equal. Unfortunately this might not be as useful as it seems : The AI is bad as using the treasure and the items eventually end up with the human player anyway.
Another possible path to take is to allow lairs and nodes to cast spells, most likely from a tier proportional to the total strength of creatures defending it. However I have no idea if any of the spell targeting code is safe to use by neutrals. Probably is but this has to be checked.
Another possibility is to try and pinpoint specific things that are a problem but there are kinda too many I've seen even in this single game :
-Undead hydra (OP but we already know this.)
-Undead chaos spawn (not so op but also easier to get)
-Undead Air elemental (spam spells to clear lair without ever getting found, move 5 to instantly reach next lair once done, beat AI because early spells can't deal with it either)
-early quality rare spell (Air elemental)
-early good items (Excalibur, Helba Staff, anything with teleport/merge etc)
-Ninja hero (early invisibility)

Most of these can come from lairs and cause a positive feedback loop by making it even easier to clear later lairs.

Something else. We could lower the buff potential of ghouls by changing their stats to have no +1 to hit and 1 higher melee and ranged. Overall they'd be roughly equally powerful but the efficiency of Darkness, Heavenly Light and Focus Magic would be 33% lower on them. Of course, this also means Guardian, Prayer and Soul Link becoming this much better at the same time.
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(April 8th, 2019, 04:24)Seravy Wrote: Unfortunately, treasure hunting is fun, so changing it would make the game less enjoyable.

I don't think grinding lairs turn after turn with an archer unit is fun. On the other hand, I think its good that lairs can be taken with several waves of army stacks. 

What if retreating in exhaustion from a lair would not be possible and instead the army would be lost? That would prevent slowly taking lairs without any losses.
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(April 8th, 2019, 08:40)merlinp Wrote:
(April 8th, 2019, 04:24)Seravy Wrote: Unfortunately, treasure hunting is fun, so changing it would make the game less enjoyable.

I don't think grinding lairs turn after turn with an archer unit is fun. On the other hand, I think its good that lairs can be taken with several waves of army stacks. 

What if retreating in exhaustion from a lair would not be possible and instead the army would be lost? That would prevent slowly taking lairs without any losses.

That kills the intended uses of several strategies while not fixing the underlying problem - you can afford losing 5 units of cavalry to clear out a lair of 5 cockatrices and 4 lizards with confusion or other spells.

One particular step I see that could be meaningful is giving Death Immunity to Air Elementals so they can't be turned undead. Invisibility is branded as late ability, producing Nightblades isn't possible before 1406 and the spell(s) are also Rare. This would also extend to the AI but I don't see that as a problem for two reasons, first the AI using early Air Elementals against the player would be just as unfair as the opposite, and second the AI isn't allowed to attack Air Elemental lairs early in the first place so they have very limited access to it (only rampaging monsters).
This of course doesn't solve the entire problem either, but I see no downsides to it and it does help a little so might be worth doing. All other Sorcery combat summons are immune to Death anyway so it is even reasonable for consistency (although same is not true for other kinds of elementals.)
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