[SPOILERS] Rusten enters uncharted waters

[naufragar]

Congrats on landing India.

If not there's a good chance I pick creative even with mysticism as a starting tech and pretend monuments don't exist.

Do you mean that the building doesn't exist but you would still be teching down the religious lines for stuff or that you'd just eat the cost of Myst and ignore the techs it leads to?

[Rusten]

The latter. Pretend mysticism doesn't exist until I need monarchy.

It's not impossible that I make a play for the Oracle, but most likely the techs will be ignored. However, thinking about it some more I can see a world where BW is not required early given my available tiles which opens up a potential hunting->religion->BW tech path. Maybe Cre+Spi could be a thing. I'm just very reluctant to pursue a religion and early wonder in such a big game. Especially one with so many players I don't know.

Either way, happy to eat the cost of mysticism if that's what it takes to grab such a good civ.

[Rusten]

With Mehmed gone already I'm considering Bismarck. Expansive is strong for the start and having mysticism forced upon me makes the SH easy to get, especially with +50% production.  I'd get mini-creative on top of already having mini-charismatic and mini-protective.
I've decided to get at least one of either creative or expansive this start -- that's the baseline. I did say earlier that I don't want imperialistic, but Catherine is an option.

Wary of looking for too many synergies. Especially ones that stem from something that is already a concession (mysticism). At some point the sum of all its parts is less than something simple and strong.

The shortlist is currently (in random order):
Bismarck, Zara, Suryavarman, Catherine, Pericles, Peter. I'd put Hatshepsut and Isabella on there but I played spiritual in PB41, so probably giving it a pass this time around.

[Rusten]

Yup. Sloppy preliminary sims prove that Bismarck with early SH is very good. The opportunity cost is minimal given how cheap the base cost is and mysticism already being teched. Probably stronger than my initial Mehmed pick TBH, but I would not be surprised if Bismarck is taken before I have my turn. It's looking fairly likely BeardBeard will pick him as he is also mining/myst.

In fact I will probably go for the Stonehenge even without industrious, but not tested that yet. If there's an expansive leader I like remaining when it's my turn to pick that's probably best. I can easily see someone like Peter remaining, and while he doesn't get a discount on the SH he does benefit from an early wonder in the GPP. An early settled prophet is not bad at all, and the way timings work out a 2nd prophet could be a shrine (with a GS from a different city in between). There are enough forests to chop it without industrious.

India was such a steal. No problem being unlucky in snake pick order when you catch a break like this. 

[Rusten]

Dark Savant taking Bismarck is actually not bad. He coupled it with Mali, which means he's way more likely to be targetting The Oracle and taking MC than to build Stonehenge. I'm way more likely to get SH with someone like Peter now.

On a general note I hope to report more this time around although I'm not making any promises. The problem in PB41 was that I was sharing my thoughts to Hitru through gchat, and doing it a second time around in the thread was tedious. Don't expect daily reports, but I'll do my best to keep the thread up to date.

[Rusten]

Ended up taking Isabella despite spiritual being a repeat. It's the late game bonus I was looking for and basically I consider spiritual almost a straight upgrade on philosophical for my situation. I'm not targeting a specific great person so I can get the GPP I need through caste. I like PHI for multiple golden ages, but that's mainly to change civics, so why not just go straight to the source? The mod has made changes to the civics to balance their power level which I'd also consider a buff to spiritual as you won't want to adopt vassalage and then leave it until the end of the game. I don't have the best commerce capital, but bureaucracy should still be worthwhile with "no cost". Furthermore spiritual saves 1 turn on the all-important SH compared to PHI. 

Overall I'm very happy with both picks, it could not have gone much better. Now to watch and relax until the start of the game.  

[Rusten]

Started writing pick reviews on a whim. I usually don't, but I need to remind myself of what the new civs do anyway and it's something to do in the downtime. Expect at least the first few not long after the snakepick is done.

Some added thoughts on the starting position: With pigs not being shareable and bureaucracy being buffed (and me having spiritual) I'll probably look to change capitals at some point. I can never get enough commerce with so much coast and ocean (and no river). That means the extra food is OK as I'll be working either food negative tiles (workshops) or running specialists. Sharing the clam is not a necessity. The area to the west appears to widen and is fairly green, so a wealthy inland city there would be ace. Hoping for a river and good food.

[Rusten]

The first batch of 5. Chosen in somewhat random order, but mixing people I know well and new faces as the former is easier to write about.

Borsche: Suryavarman [EXP/CRE] of Persia
Persia: Hunting/Agriculture. UB: Market replacement: Satrap Court. -25% city maintenance. UU: Chariot replacement. Immortal. +10% withdraw. 1 Free strike. Starts with March.

Meh. OK pick, but nothing much to say or be truly excited about. I don't think picking Persia that early was warranted -- this would make more sense if he was later in the pick phase. Good starting techs coupled with a cheap market UB can't be bad however. Suryavarman was on my shortlist too, but I thought he was a little too early game, especially in a big game like this which is likely to drag on. I only wanted one of Cre/Exp, not both. Borsche is looking to make a flying start, and maybe this pick is partly motivated by his early exit in PB45.

My (bold) prediction: Borsche will survive the first 40 turns and improve on his last performance.

Pick strength: 2.5/5
Fun: 2/5
Flair: 1/5

Krill: Hannibal [FIN/CHM] of England
England: Fishing/Mining. UB: Bank replacement: Stock Exchange. +15% science. UU: Rifle replacement. +25% against gunpowder units, starts with Amphibious.

Another civ pick that surprised me a little for how early it was, but it's not the first time Krill goes in on something cute relating to promotions. He rightly expects the game to last until rifling, with or without himself, and picked accordingly. His combo is incredibly slow. There is nothing for the starting turns so he needs sharp focus to keep up. Not going to question his motivation for the game as he's posting up a storm in his thread. He amusingly PMed me not only to let me know I was on deck to pick a leader, but also again when I was up, despite me replying to the thread within minutes.  The best thing about playing with Krill is that you'll never have to complain about the turn pace, because Krill will do it for you!

I think his greatest flaw is that he's prone to see a scenario where he doesn't win and then assumes that exact scenario will happen. He gets hung up on it when there are still multiple paths possible and the other players are not operating with 100% knowledge. He then proceeds to throw the game. Having such a good late game to look forward to might save him from this curse.

My prediction: Will expand to a reasonable size despite slow civ+leader and turtle to his UB/UU without making waves early on. Will then get scared of 'player x' graphs and who knows what will happen. For his sake hopefully not an implosion.

Strength: 3/5
Fun: 4/5
Flair: 4/5

Adler: Julius Caesar [IMP/ORG] of Sumeria
Sumeria: The Wheel/Agriculture. UB: Courthouse replacement: Ziggarut. Available at Writing. Cost 90. UU: axe replacement. Vulture. Strength 6. 25% bonus against melee. 5% bonus against axemen.

Know next to nothing about the player. I think he's from the discord with GKC and Irismono so he should know how to play multiplayer, but won't have RtR experience. I'd venture a guess he's better at the military side of the game than the economic one, although he's certainly picked for the latter. The combo is very nice. Expand like a nutter and get bailed out by cheap courthouses that are available at writing. If he gets space and lenient neighbours he could do very well. Transparent approach, but good all the same. Potential dark horse.

My prediction: Don't know the player, but he could easily be near the top if capable and lucky with neighbours. If I'm put near him I might have to be the one to cut him down early before he consolidates.

Strength: 4.5/5
Fun: 1/5
Flair: 1/5

Dark Savant: Bismark [EXP/IND] of Mali 
Mali: The Wheel/Mining. UB: Forge replacement: Mint. +10% gold, +10% beakers. UU: Archer replacement. Skirmisher. Strength 4, -40% against archers.

I don't know that much about DS either. He reported very thoroughly in previous pitbosses. Perhaps too thoroughly for me to read it all and get a good read. From what I remember he does meticulous demo reading and I don't find that very interesting personally so I drift. The combination is a proven concept, industrious with a good excuse to build forges. He'll probably want MC with The Oracle for early forges. In my humble opinion players are a bit too zealous about this slingshot in RtR. With the cost of MC being so low compared to vanilla you can easily just tech it yourself through regular beakers and avoid the religious line. This is partly why I, unlike most players, rate a leader like Louis as he can skip mysticism altogether and put those beakers towards MC instead. I don't think DS will avoid it though. Worth noting that he starts with neither mysticism nor a food tech, so that's fortunately a factor against early Stonehenge. Bismarck usually has SH written all over him.

Prediction: Will be in the middle of the pack. Maybe struggling a bit claiming land due to passiveness, but early and cheap forges will keep him relevant until knights for hammers. From there on it all depends on geopolitics.

Strength:2.5/5
Fun: 2.5/5
Flair: 1/5


Rusten: Isabella [EXP/SPI] of India
India: Mysticism/Mining. UB: Granary replacement: Harrapan Granary, +1 happy, +1 health, cost 45 hammers, no bonus production from trait. UU: Pike replacement. Urukku Pikeman. Strength 8.

The only player deluded enough to pick spiritual and think he's able to use it well, but luckily saved by having charismatic and protective on the UB. I've already rambled on about me, but safe to stay I'd not trade pick with anyone. There's only one wonder I have my eyes on, and that's Stonehenge. That means industrious is not really needed as something like expansive has already saved hammers equivalent to IND SH by the time it's built. Play with expansive early and rely on spiritual to compete with the financial civs later. Keyword is flexibility. I'm not reliant on a particular power spike related to the pick, I can form it on my own as the pick is simply solid from start to finish. Built to pounce on whatever opening is available. That could be a classical era attack on one of the uber-expansive civs or maybe it's later, we'll see.

Strength: 5/5
Fun: 5/5
Flair: 2/5

[Rusten]

Commodore: Wang Kon [FIN/PRO] of Mongolia
Mongolia: Hunting/The Wheel. UB: Stables replacement: Ger. +1 culture, +4XP to mounted units, requires Archery, +100% production with horse, no trait production modifier. UU: Horse Archer replacement. Keshik. +1 free strike. Ignores terrain movement costs.

Everyone's favourite storyteller rides again, but the real question is: Did he choose the Mongols because he thinks it's a justified 2nd pick or because it's great for storytelling? My UU will come in handy against him if I can reach it. Not a lot has changed, but the stables adding as monuments and getting cost reduced is certainly a nice quality of life change. I really like this civ/leader pick. Should be fun to play and ticks most of the boxes. 

Personally I would've liked a charismatic leader to go with the Mongols, but WK is OK too. Charismatic would get double promotions with a single stable, which would hopefully be 30 hammers. So a classical warfare setup phase only needs 30 hammers invested in infrastructure (+cheap granary). Could easily skip barracks almost everywhere and have the stables cover both culture and XP. Someone like Churchill seems excellent. I wonder if Commodore would've picked him instead had he been available.

Commodore is a player that could easily pounce on some of the greener players (or me for that matter) and get a big snowball going early so the lineup suits him well. He enjoys classical warfare and has a unit to with it. Not going to spoil PB44, but I think it's common knowledge that things haven't gone exactly to plan so he will have an axe to grind here.

My prediction: A good player with a good civ and leader who will do very well. Always a contender to win, but maybe even more so than usual with these players.

Pick strength: 4/5
Fun: 4/5
Flair: 5/5

Gavagai: Stalin [AGG/IND] of Germany
Germany: Hunting/Mining. UB: Forge replacement: Werkstatt. -25% city maintenance. UU: Grenadier replacement. Strosstrupp. Strength 14.

That's not Louis!   But Stalin is a good choice too. Fairly slow traits and slow civ, but Gav usually finds a way to stay relevant and he'll have an ace up his sleeve later with an excellent UU. A player that can pick something slow and get away with it. Krill in particular will hope that he has a bad game. One advantage of going Stalin over Louis is easier access to amphibious promotions in the renaissance. You do have to get there though.

Prediction: One of many players who are favoured to win. Neighbour luck will always be a big factor, but I think Gavagai will be in the mix no matter what. I remember Commodore described him as "Relentless, Machine" in his PB41 thread -- Gavagai will find a way to be relevant somehow and make use of his UU. Can easily see him stomp an inexperiened player early despite lacking in early game bonuses.

Strength: 4/5
Fun: 4/5
Flair: 2/5

BeardBeard: Charlemagne [PRO/IMP] of HRE
Holy Roman Empire: Hunting/Mysticism. UB: Courthouse replacement: Rathaus. -75% city maintenance. UU: Longbow replacement. Landskneckt. +50% against Mounted units.

Another player I don't know. Judging from his posts on the forum he enjoys trolling, but not much to base anything on. Don't want to start next to this guy TBH -- so unpredictable and I don't want another Aretas messing up my game. No idea what to expect. Not a big fan of HRE. I feel the courthouse UBs that are available earlier and at a reduced cost are better, and the UU is so-so. I'm sensing a plan of grabbing a lot of land and holding on to it with the UU while building the UB and consolidating, but I fear the timings will be off.

Prediction: N/A

Strength: 2/5
Fun: 2/5
Flair: 2/5

superdeath: Boudica [AGG/CHM] of America
America: Agriculture/Fishing. UB: Barracks replacement: Armoury. +1XP to Gunpowder, +1XP to Mounted, +1XP to Armour, +2XP to Melee. UU: Musket replacement. Starts with Guerrilla 1 and Woodsman 1.

Another slow leader with a slow civ. Yes the UB is immediately available, but it doesn't make much of an impact until later. This pick isn't bad, but I think it's too greedy personally. You can say that it plays to superdeath's strenghts in that it's focused on warfare, but I think a player that's better at the economy side of the game than warfare would perhaps have more success. Then it might force such a person to do something early, and not just sit back and tech. In superdeath's hands I don't see this working.

My prediction: superdeath will be horribly backwards by the early mid-game and play spoiler for someone with his outdated (but highly promoted) army. I'd prefer not to be put anywhere near him. I'd be more worried about superdeath if he picked a protective leader as that would (hopefully) push him to get granaries before libraries. Maybe the added happy cap of charismatic will push him on the right path. Then again, charismatic also gives a discount on libraries, so he's likely screwed.   I'd love to see him prove me wrong and build a good economy as foundation for the promotion madness. His enthusiasm for pitboss is infectious when he has a good game.

Strength: 1/5
Fun: 4/5
Flair: 3/5

BaII: Mehmed [EXP/ORG] of Khmer
Khmer: Mining/Hunting. UB: Aqueduct replacement: Baray. +1 food, +1 culture, +1 Artist slot. Cost 80. UU: War Elephant replacement. Ballistaphant (I don't know the actual name) [sic]. Targets mounted first outside of cities. Can construct baray.

Bastard took my leader! 
An aqueduct UB has to be pretty damn good to justify picking the civ. Even at 40 hammers the base building is useless for most of the game. I hated the previous baray iterations but it might finally be decent as it can pop your borders with ease in newly built cities. A monument that gives +1 food and enables an artist? Yup, you can justify building it. The UU is what it's always been.

I don't know the player. He's dedlurking JR4 in PB43, but from what I've seen never logs in and just plays a siderole so not much to judge on. It's a little weird going from PB41 where I had at least a minor read on everyone to this game where there are so many new faces.
Prediction: Middle of the pack.

Strength: 2.5/5
Fun: 2/5
Flair: 2/5

[Mardoc]

I think his greatest flaw is that he's prone to see a scenario where he doesn't win and then assumes that exact scenario will happen. He gets hung up on it when there are still multiple paths possible and the other players are not operating with 100% knowledge. He then proceeds to throw the game. Having such a good late game to look forward to might save him from this curse.

Good summary. I think part of this also is that his work is busier than before, which doesn't necessarily leave the time for solid performance late game.

Rusten: Isabella [EXP/SPI] of India
India: Mysticism/Mining. UB: Granary replacement: Harrapan Granary, +1 happy, +1 health, cost 45 hammers, no bonus production from trait. UU: Pike replacement. Urukku Pikeman. Strength 8.

I understand the benefits of the traits and the UB. What's your opinion on this new pike?