[spoilers] Let's Play Civilization 4.5: Realms Beyond the Sword

[Commodore]

If Wang Kon reaches us, gotta be Wang Kon, right?

[ipecac]

If Wang Kon reaches us, gotta be Wang Kon, right?

Yes, but it would be shocking if we get it. If we don't and plan to get early Moai, IND could be a decent choice just to get ~80 hammers off it.

[Commodore]

So then, picks are in. The list:

Hitru (Old Harry) is Victoria of Inca
Commodopecac is Wang Kon of Mongolia
Borsche is Sury of Persia
GKC is Darius of the Aztecs
Krill is Hannibal of England
TBW is Shaka of Rome
2MN is Mao of Ethiopia
Elkad is Churchill of the Natives
Pindicator is Pacal of Arabia
Gavagai is Stalin of Germany
Rusten is Isabella of India
Beard*2 is Charlemagne of Holy Rome
Baii is Mehmed of Khmer
Superdeath is Boudicca of America
Alder is Julius of Sumer
Dark Savant is Bismarck of Mali

A few surprises, a few notables.
1. Krill’s cheap granaries somehow didn’t tempt many of us. Babylon never even got picked.
2. Lots of Financials for RtR, which is unsurprising given this script’s penchant for starts like…well, our start.
3. Superdeath is hilariously doubling down on his Always Chaotic Evil rep with his “optimized for a t40 kamikaze” pick.
4. Krill’s insanely late-game selection, on the other hand, won’t get anything online until he’s well past the Standard Krill Midgame Flakeout.
5. Badgame people (Borsche, TBW, Beardbeard, GermanJoey once Krill flakes) are here in force. Every single one is a semi-insane edgelord with Tourette’s. How in 2019 the Powers that Be hasn’t unpersoned them yet…
6. Food content in this field is low. Possibly Rusten or Pindicator if their combos encourage too much Rube Goldberg stuff? Adler is an unknown, but Discord seems pretty competent. Weird huh? Almost like most people playing a 15 year old game are pretty experienced.

[ipecac]

What type of meta-game do the Badgame people play?

[Mardoc]

So why did you pick what you picked? I don't see any synergy. A belief that Krill didn't balance things perfectly and these are powerful? Something with the meta-game, belief that Pro + HA are vital in the event of something like bordering Superdeath again?

Is it just as simple as Keshiks being fun?

[ipecac]

Maybe good balance eliminates overpowered synergy. Was it Krill that posted about how picks should aim at covering weakness and not synergy for its own sake? We didn't expect synergy anyway with second pick.

The metagame has changed: X-bows are now overpowered, everyone gets an unflankable killing collateral unit that gets defense boni. Everyone is going to be building lots of them for offense, defence, or naval hijinks. It's not possible to depend on a profitable knight rush against X-bows and assorted ancient units, RNG could go your way or not. I haven't simmed it, but probably curaissers against X-bows and pikes would still be rather painful.

We need to conquer land to win. Early classical is best, therefore Mongolia. Gers no longer get a bonus from AGG, so the only synergy is with CHM. Our land screams FIN, and PRO is improved because of X-bows. Then Krill picked FIN/CHM, and we didn't have to think twice.

[Mardoc]

The metagame has changed: X-bows are now overpowered, everyone gets an unflankable killing collateral unit that gets defense boni. Everyone is going to be building lots of them for offense, defence, or naval hijinks. It's not possible to depend on a profitable knight rush against X-bows and assorted ancient units, RNG could go your way or not. I haven't simmed it, but probably curaissers against X-bows and pikes would still be rather painful.

Huh, I would have thought this hurts maces (even more) but doesn't hurt Knights much.  And if you're right, why Mongolia rather than China?  What am I missing?

We need to conquer land to win. Early classical is best, therefore Mongolia. Gers no longer get a bonus from AGG, so the only synergy is with CHM. Our land screams FIN, and PRO is improved because of X-bows. Then Krill picked FIN/CHM, and we didn't have to think twice.

Your reasoning makes sense. I'm mostly poking people to get a feel for the new mod because I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around it just from the changelog. Speaking of which: any opinion on the naval changes?

[ipecac]

Huh, I would have thought this hurts maces (even more) but doesn't hurt Knights much.

A stack of C2 X-bows can go on offense against a stack of C2 knights with good odds of doing massive damage, even outright dominate the encounter if RNG goes your way. throw in ancient trash to mop up and knights are done. The attacker can try to slog through with a stack of collateral + knights, but that's slow.

 And if you're right, why Mongolia rather than China?  What am I missing?

Mongolia has the prospect of quick gains with 2-movers, China can get earlier X-bows that don't need construction but movement is slow unless terrain favours Guerilla II.

Your reasoning makes sense.  I'm mostly poking people to get a feel for the new mod because I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around it just from the changelog.  Speaking of which: any opinion on the naval changes?

Astro beeline is no longer be-all and end-all, which is great. Circumnavigation being available to all is more balanced. Caravels being able to transport military could be fun. Galleon ocean movement being hard-nerfed is going to be interesting.

[Commodore]

I’ll start the pick preview with our own, I guess.
Wang Kon (Financial, Protective) of Mongolia (Hunting, Wheel, Keshik, Ger)

There’s nothing particularly synergistic about this combination; that’s to be expected with where we were at the top of the snake pick. Charismatic would have clearly been lovely with the Ger, but Hannibal and Churchill were both taken already. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I really like Protective for speedy granary boosting as it is, but with the nuttiness that is this mod’s crossbows…nothing is going to be able to protect coastal cities ever. Might as well boost the new broken super-unit. Galleys going at insane coast speeds with collateral-causing crossbows? Wuff.

I like Mongolia a lot for what are a core multiplayer unit…horse archers. Later, knights. This is going to be a very wet map but the script also doesn’t tend to totally isolate people onto single islands, so the Standard Conquest of horse archers and/or knights will win the game. Might as well embrace your monuments providing uber-hosses.

The final disparate Good Thing this combo gives is Financial. This is a water map. Furthermore, this is a water map with every single coastal city going to have to be considered disposable; building up long-investment cottages on the Krillmod Deathcoasts is a fool’s errand when everyone has access to collateral 4-movers. As a result, 2/0/3 commerce is about as good as it gets. Financial, weirdly enough, isn’t “cottage cheese” anymore, but rather “cheap fishing shacks”. So…Wang Kon of Mongolia.

[ipecac]

Great point, being able to mass produce 4-move galleys in the ancient era is crazy.