[spoilers] Let's Play Civilization 4.5: Realms Beyond the Sword

[Mardoc]

Thanks for the thoughts!

The final disparate Good Thing this combo gives is Financial. This is a water map. Furthermore, this is a water map with every single coastal city going to have to be considered disposable; building up long-investment cottages on the Krillmod Deathcoasts is a fool’s errand when everyone has access to collateral 4-movers. As a result, 2/0/3 commerce is about as good as it gets. Financial, weirdly enough, isn’t “cottage cheese” anymore, but rather “cheap fishing shacks”. So…Wang Kon of Mongolia.

Couldn't you just plan to own the sea?  I feel like the main thing Krillmod takes away is 'just run past the enemy fleet and raze things'.  Granted, I'm someone who tended to lose wars, so maybe my grasp on new tactics here is flawed.

[ipecac]

Couldn't you just plan to own the sea?  I feel like the main thing Krillmod takes away is 'just run past the enemy fleet and raze things'.  Granted, I'm someone who tended to lose wars, so maybe my grasp on new tactics here is flawed.

To win, you have to get a decisive land advantage, which generally means that you invest less in ships until your production lead becomes big.

In general, unless you have a really big lead, after your empire has expanded big it's easy for civs who are fifth place, say, and no real chance of winning to send a small fleet at some of your cities. This mod should make it easier to gang up on a leading player, by each player kamikaze-razing a few coastal cities. It's relatively low cost solution to the eternal problem of 'why aren't people ganging up on the leader?'

[Mardoc]

So tactically you could own the sea, but strategically you shouldn't?  Because it tends to cost more than you gain?

I suppose this is really a tangent to Financial, Fin is good for big secure coastal cities in addition to being good for small low-investment coastal cities.  Either way this question turns out, the map script probably matters more than the naval changes.

But my real question is what naval war looks like in our Brave New World. I guess your position is that coastal speed and collateral-off-boats will matter more than the ocean slowness?

[ipecac]

Strategically you shouldn't because to win you need to focus on conquering land-wise at first, which diverts most of your military production to producing land units, meaning that you can lag behind on sea units. Once you build up an big tech/production lead you should of course aim to dominate the sea too.

But before you achieve that lead, it's much easier for other players to take you down. First because AI Diplo now allows easier coordination of dogpiling, second since you're focused on land units it is easier for them to get a big enough naval stack to hit you.

I guess your position is that coastal speed and collateral-off-boats will matter more than the ocean slowness?

If there are enough coastal connections, yeah.

[ipecac]

Adler is an unknown, but Discord seems pretty competent.

They're still pretty green at MP.

[ipecac]

Adler is an unknown, but Discord seems pretty competent.

They're still pretty green at MP.

Now that they're dead, I can comment:

1) They didn't know the value of 2-movers. Did not have chariots at a critical moment. nor HAs later at an important time period.

2) Their strategy upon meeting Gav was to just hope that their skirmishers would be prickly enough to deter him. In hindsight, they should definitely have considered Oracling MC instead, run a mixed Priest/Engineer pool and hope to bulb Machinery. The only real counter to AGG Praets is Xbows. IND/Mali, for crying out loud, get those Forges and engineer GPPs ASAP.

[Commodore]

Game is begun. Wang Kon, so password is "Troll".

I had a moment where I wondered about settling in place vs. moving to one of those there dry dry hills for inlandness.

...then I regained sanity. Picked Financial exactly to gain cheap cheap commerce from coasts, and this is about it for greenlands here in this Arctic waste.

Mongolia's capital. Booyah, neh?

[Commodore]

Well, I officially regret not moving inland. This is awesome though.

So glad to see happy, this script never promises that.

[Commodore]

The game having now launched, I think I’m going to give a little bit of a tiered OpForAnal. Strange things may happen, but baring crazy randomness:
Group 1: Will Win This Game

Hitru (Flawless, Inscrutable) as Victoria (Financial, Imperialistic) of Inca (Terrace, Quecha)
It’s gotta be Hitru, right? This man is the Master of Puppets, the genius behind genius, tireless, patient, and basically the perfect player. He’ll humbly allow Old Harry to make a few moves, but when their turn 174 warfare turn reaches its tenth ingame hour, it’s going to be Hitru who moves in the battleships. That would be true even with BtS Churchill of America, but with this combo? Man, it’s a bunch of cheap good stuff. The 45h granary is a bit awkward for whips/chops, but hey, non-Pro Terraces were worth it even before. Slap on good commerce on a water map and cheap settlers plus discounted city, and you’re beyond golden.

Group 2: Could be Deluded into Thinking They Could Win the Game

Krill (Aggressive, Unstable) and German Joey (Unstable, Aggressive) as Hannibal (Financial, Charismatic) of England
Krill is probably the only quantity on these fora more known than me (ref. post count), so I won’t belabour the point. He’s good, but gets bored and doesn’t finish well. Joey is also this. I like Hannibal a lot here, honestly, charismatic promotions are flashy and all but the sheer happy cap joy of that +2 is the real kicker, I think. I like financial for a water map, natch, too. The critique I have of England is the same I’ve always had…the game is won or lost at the point that her Special Stuff comes online.
Way he could upset and win: If this somewhat random script gifts Krill a starting region with a lot of food (temperate) and he manages to get the psychologically bolstering combination of a food neighbor *and* a decently-challenging-but-not-too-challenging neighbor, Krill could stay engaged emotionally for long enough to exploit his authorship of the mod into a winning position. England still won’t matter.

Rusten (Skillful, Optimistic) as Isabella (Spiritual, Expansive) of India (Granary Thingy, Swole Pikeman)
The guy who is widely acknowledged to be the best Deity players here, Rusten, is adapting rapidly to Krillmod Multiplayer. He is rocking some of what I liked with the Hitrusian Approach, with a trait that improves launch velocity and expansion maintainability combining with cheap granaries, now with happiness. Clearly he is aiming for early religion for culture, spiritual will be nice in the mod’s civics too. Don’t like it as much as the simplicity of Vicky, though. Having base-strength 8 units available for just 60 hammers that hard-counter knights and cuirs is pretty nice, although to be honest I’d be more impressed in a mod that isn’t Crossbows: The Superunit.
Way he could upset and win: If Rusten is able to build in beautiful and pristine isolation and can set up elegant bulb paths with spiritual’s demi-Phi, while maintaining a shrine, he might be able to get to Combustion/Artillery for security well before others. That could be turned into a cultural win if he has enough inland to maintain three CV cities off of the Krillmod Deathcoasts.

Gavagai (Patient, Relentless) as Stalin (Industrious, Aggressive) of Germany (Uberforge, Deathengrenadiershmencht)
Always a contender, Gavagai is a pretty good bet to be up there on the scoreboard once more here. His leader is definitely hard mode, without a direct boost to either early expansion or growth limitations. That said, I like what’s here…with this many players targeting wonders is a bit of a crapshoot but forges are amazing to get discounted and honestly you’re going to be building a barracks in every city as well. Germany boosts a building you’re building everywhere and an already great unit. The Hessians are late, though, see England comments (although Military Science is easier to hit than Rifling, definitely).  
Way he could upset and win: First of all, Gavagai wants this to be a long game, for his late-blooming strengths and tolerance for late-game turn lengths. Second, he wants a lot of food-tier neighbors and then gassed middle-weight players to be able to conquer. Finally, he needs to be far far away from Hitru or another player who is willing to tangle with a full-sized blossoming German empire. That’s a big ask, but stranger things have happened.[/u]

Group 3: Will Make Something Nice

Pindicator (Smart, Too Smart for His Own Good) as Pacal (Expansive, Financial) of Arabia (Madrassa, Camel Archer)
Poor Pindicator, I want to rank him higher. I consider him a friend, so bias beware, but he’s got a mean spreadsheet and all of his fundamentals are sound. Alas, two things running against him are his lack of recent experience (he’s been Civ6’in, the sap) and his tendency build overly elaborate plans that inevitably get crapped on. Additionally, I don’t think he really has time to play huge 5+ hour modern war turns, but that applies to most of us bumping along down here.

Us
I’ve already spoken about our pick. My record is voluminous, and even illustrated for some 20% of it (RIP dropbox hosting). I don’t have time to win a 16-man Pitboss. Not even with luck.

Dark Savant (Verbose, Enthused) as Bismarck (Expansive, Industrious) of Mali (Mint, Skirmisher)
This might be the most controversial inclusion, but I see that DS has Taotao lurking. Taotao is a good guy, and Dark Savant has played solid games in the past. If you want to see how he does…you have data. Dude updates a lot, although his demo:wide angle view ratio is a little high for my ease of reading. I have to squelch a retch at the combo, much as Krill has monkeyed with things the bog standard that is Bismarck of Mali still plays pretty much like Bismarck of Mali. Dull as it is, though, it’s pretty solid, much like the players.

Group 4: Not Grossly Incompetent

Borsche (Angry, lolcow) as Suryavarman (Expansive, Creative) of Persia (Carpetmarket, Immortal (now 50% more mortal))
I’ll say first of all, 45 was a mistake on Borsche’s part, not representative. What he’s done that is representative doesn’t impress, but does show general competence and some fair aggression. If he can avoid crashing Sury’s vroom-vroom goodness he’ll very much enjoy that new market economy. Immortals got nerfed all to hell and back, unfortunately…the ability to garner defensive bonuses was huge, and the archer thing…yoy. Still, I guess with March they’ll suppress barbarians better?

GeneralKillCavalry (Chatty, Ambitious) as Darius (Organized, Financial) of the Aztecs (Sacrificial Altar, Jaguar Warrior)
Well, you’ve heard GKC analyzed by Ipecac, I’ve only read him in 45, where he took over Borche’s empire and then Boak’s thread. He’s wordy enough to get a read, and I’m going to be doing the usual thing where I am biased towards a guy who can string together words good. The combo is slow, danger guys. I like the economy and whip joy and nice-ish swords, but there’s nothing that speeds him up in the ancient era, which in a field this large means he’s going to suffer. He’s proven eatable but not palatable. Maybe if we’re near him we can nosh?

2MetraNinja (Caustic, Experienced) as Mao (Expansive, Protective) of Ethiopia (Oromo, Obelisk)
2MN is fine. Much as he’s been here for a long long time, he doesn’t report a lot. He’s never won, but he’s not a pushover either. The combo he’s running is similarly okay, starts pretty fast, gives out lots of sentry, and opens up a possible great merchant for shenanigans. Oromo aren’t amazing, but they are nice and if they’re too late to be decisive, at least they are early enough to be visible.  

Elkad (Prickly, Terse) as Churchill (Protective, Charisma) of the American Aboriginal Peoples (Tracker, Totem Pole)
Moose plus is fine. Again, low reporting players who are just sort of generally solid are hard to form strong opinions on. I like the combo quite a lot; frankly I’m jealous of the leader, I’d have been happiest with Churchill if he’d reached us in the snake, and the cool Tracker-into-Totem thing will be interesting to see. Just wish it was being used by someone who reports.

Group 5A: Not Enough Data

Adler (Discordant, Helpful) as Julius Caesar (Imperialistic, Organized) of Sumer (Vulture, Ziggurat)
Addie Laddie is from Discord and was involved in the respectable loss in 44. His combo is fast-expanding and built to have a nearly free empire…so kind of like in BtS, but more. Hopefully, he’ll report and we can see him join the community in full.

TBW (Bad, Gamer) as Shaka (Aggressive, Expansive) of Rome (Praetorian, Forum)
The tech thread has thus far shown TBW to be…less foul that most of the Badgame lot? Still, he lives on Badgame so clearly he’s a bad person and thoughtcriminal. Rome is pretty strong in Krillmod, the lower base strength of Praets are more than countered by the +50% against cities. Shaka can rush a dude. TBW will probably attack a dude.

Baii (Beyond, Realms) as Mehmed (Organized, Expansive) of Khmer (Barry, Ballin’ Pants)
I feel a little bad here, Baii’s been here a while but I don’t have strong associations. His combo isn’t bad at all…economy, some start help, and the cheap berries will be nice particularly on a natural map. Ballin’ Pants haven’t mattered before, so I don’t expect them to matter now, with Construction even less important of a tech.

Group 5B: Kamikaze Death Cultist

Superdeath (Carnage, Suicidal) as Boudicca (Charismatic, Aggressive) of America (Armory, Minutemen)
Always chaotic evil, never compromised. Superdeath, who is in every game now, is guaranteed to wreck a single neighbor’s game. The single exception is where we were locked into a duel island with him and were Mali. Superdeath’s combo is optimized for what he does best; wreck his own game while he wrecks a neighbor’s. Precisely nobody wants to be next to this guy on a normal day, but with the Crazed Ginger of Murican Stereotype? Ye.

Beardbeard (Troll, Slopebrow) as Charlemagne (Imperialistic, Charismatic) of Holy Rome (Landsknecht, Rathaus)
So I know the trolling in the tech thread is pretty performative, but I don’t get serious vibes from this guy. He’s got a good combo, but I don’t think he’s looking to leverage nicer longbows here, I expect we’ll see a half-hearted tossed-off attack when he finds himself behind due to his lack of focus/seriousness.

[ipecac]

A river!