[SPOILER] Dark Savant's thread: Competition for limited resources remains a constant

[taotao]

I can produce a work boat, 2 workers, and a settler by turn 33:

• t7 Fishing, work boat complete -> warrior, work 2f1h
  
• t8 boat fish and work it, swap to worker 
  
• t11 Hunting
  
• t18 worker complete, resume warrior
  
• t22 size 2 just in time for the completed pasture
  
• t24 Bronze Working, worker #1 starts first chop
  
• t25 size 3, swap to worker, revolt
  
• t26 first chop done
  
• t27 whip worker
  
• t28 worker #2 emerges, worker #1 starts second chop
  
• t29 overflow into first warrior (it was mostly done already, we can produce it sooner if needed)
  
• t30 second chop comes in
  
• t31 third chop comes in
  
• t33 settler emerges
  

There's enough leftover worker labor to start a fourth chop into a work boat, or build a few roads to speed along the settler.

Work boat + 1 worker + settler can happen earlier, but two workers is probably better.

I might be completely wrong here (happens quite a lot when I'm not simming to back things up), but I believe that the turn you put into a warrior at t7 is a waste as the hammer will be lost to decay by t18 (and if not it's even worse as it has started the decay clock). Do you end up 1h short on the worker t17 if you go straight wb->worker? I guess you do and that the 2f will let you grow one turn earlier. Perhaps work unimproved fish 1t and put the lone hammer into an unlikely barracks (50t decay) build?

In general I like the fact that you're chopping into and 1pop whipping workers, but here I'm not sure if it's worth the effort? Basically you're growing, chopping, having a revolution and whip in order to have your second worker chop once into the settler. That doesn't seem like a whole lot of gain from your earlyish 2nd worker. If there are other 6fh tiles in the first ring of your second city I guess it could still be worth it, I'm not just entirely convinced it's better than going straight into a sz2 settler?


Edit:
Ooh, coming from a very flat country, the views where you are now looks incredible!

[Dark Savant]

Vacation is very fun but also exhausting and doesn't give me much time.  Actually playing early turns takes little time, fortunately.

Anyway, we're up to Turn 7.  Our scouted territory looks like this so far:



No sign of anyone else so far.  You can just barely see a lion just outside of Windhoek's borders, which just showed up.

We're in part of a landmass that doesn't look particularly snaky, so someone may show up any turn.

The scout is going to check out the fogged territory west of Windhoek to see if there's a good site for a second city.

The site southwest of the forested plains hill sheep is good long-term (it also has fish and two freshwater lakes), but is not great for a second city; forested plains hill sheep barely counts as food.

The food that did show up when Windhoek expanded borders was that cow well to its east that's probably on an island.  Currently nothing that screams "plant second city here".

Oh, and I'm putting one turn into a warrior.  It doesn't actually start to undergo hammer decay until I actively swap to something else, and I just barely avoid decay (it doesn't decay in the sim I did).

Sorry, can't really get back into posting ALL THE THINGS until I'm back from vacation.

[Dark Savant]

My flight arrived home late last night.  I'll be able to catch up on things later tonight once I'm back from work.

[Dark Savant]

Turn 15 (3400 BC)

I'm still waiting on the worker to emerge and just moving the scout around.  (It's easily trounced two lions on defense, and currently has 99 hit points.)

This is what the scout has uncovered:

North:



South:



There is not a compelling second city site.  The site just southwest of the forested plains hill sheep looks significantly more attractive now.

We can also reach to claim both the wet corn and the grass hill sheep to the northwest, but that's: (1) a little distant from our capital, and (2) there isn't a spot I like that gets one of the two in the first ring.

There's also going to be a significant need to expand borders to claim food in second-ring with most city layouts I can see, so planning Stonehenge is definitely on the table.

Also, this landmass is strange:

• We still haven't found anyone else on it.
  
• It has eight silks, but no other Calendar/Monarchy luxuries.
  
• It has one gold plus one ivory nearby, which is adequate for early happiness.
  
• It's much more round than snaky.
  

The luxury distribution hints that we're on a relatively small landmass that may only have one or even zero other rivals.  Our scout, which has finished investigating the bit of tundra to our south, is going to head out to see what shape landmass we truly are on.

[Dark Savant]

Turn 16 rolled.

Known/suspected information about other players:

• Adler (Julius Caesar of Sumeria): Fishing, Hunting, and Mining
  
• 2metraninja (Mao Zedong of Ethiopia): Bronze Working out the gate, has just grown to size 2
  
• OH/Hitru (Victoria of the Inca): Fishing, Hunting, and Mining; grew to size 2 on t11
  
• GeneralKillCavalry (Darius of the Aztecs): Fishing and Mining; now researching Bronze Working or a religion
  
• Commodore (Wang Kon of Mongolia): either Agriculture or Fishing, then Mining
  
• BaII (Mehmed II of the Khmer): Agriculture and Fishing
  
• Rusten (Isabella of India): one of Agriculture, Fishing, or Mining; now researching Bronze Working or a religion; has just grown to size 2
  
• Krill (Hannibal of England): Bronze Working out the gate; grew to size 2 on t12, and just whipped to size 1 this turn
  
• TBW (Shaka of Rome): either Agriculture or Hunting; now researching Bronze Working
  
• Borsche (Suryavaman II of Persia): Mining; now researching Bronze Working
  
• pindicator (Pacal II of Arabia): Fishing, Hunting, and Mining; has just grown to size 2
  
• superdeath (Boudica of America): Mining; now researching Bronze Working
  
• Gavagai (Stalin of Germany): Agriculture and Mining; now researching Bronze Working
  
• BeardBeard (Charlemagne of the HRE): either Agriculture or Fishing, then Mining; now on Bronze Working or a religion
  
• Elkad (Churchill of Native America): Mining; now researching Bronze Working
  

[JR4]

The land looks rather barren. It`s strange that no contact has been made yet but surely it won`t be long. The second city could go on the grassland hill next to the Ivory but that won`t bring many resources into play. Going for the northwestern site with Sheep and/or Corn could still be interesting if you feel like taking a gamble. Does a city S of the Corn have enough production for a quick Stonehenge? I`d like to go for a city E of the Corn but that would invalidate the city SW of the forest Sheep. Settling that spot instead looks too slow to me as it lacks the food to grow quickly.

Maybe TBS wants every player to have a lot of copies of a single Calendar resource? The sheer amount of Silks is staggering.

[Dark Savant]

The land looks rather barren.

It looks about normal, so yeah, low by RB standards.  PB39 had food everywhere, but it's pretty clear by now we're not getting that here.

It`s strange that no contact has been made yet but surely it won`t be long.

It's quite possible contact can only be made by slipping through some narrow pass or isthmus; it's pretty common on B&S Snaky Continents.

The second city could go on the grassland hill next to the Ivory but that won`t bring many resources into play.

That looks like a good site for a city, but not our second one; it can neither get Stonehenge quickly nor does it get new food in first-ring.

Going for the northwestern site with Sheep and/or Corn could still be interesting if you feel like taking a gamble. Does a city S of the Corn have enough production for a quick Stonehenge? I`d like to go for a city E of the Corn but that would invalidate the city SW of  the forest Sheep. Settling that spot instead looks too slow to me as it lacks the food to grow quickly.

Yeah, I'm hesitant to expand immediately into the corn/sheep area, but we'll have a better idea in several more turns of fog-busting if that encroaches upon some rival's natural land claim.

Planting 1S of the corn lets a size-1 newborn city put 7 hammers/turn into Stonehenge, but it'll only have 2 first-ring forests and can't expand to claim the sheep.  It'll probably also orphan the bare plains hill 2S of the lake.

Planting 2S of the corn increases first-ring forests to 3 and puts it in range of the sheep, but it won't have any food in first-ring.  Tolerable if it gets Stonehenge, but bad if it doesn't.  (Then again, I wouldn't have taken Industrious at all if I didn't want to roll some dice!)  Also on flat land, so a bigger problem if there's a rival anywhere nearby.  It's a great city site in the long run though.

Either site should be able to complete Stonehenge by roughly turn 43.

We can always chop out second-ring forests to help, but it'll be awkward to cover more than one worker outside of our borders against wolves.  We might have to bring the scout home for that.

Maybe TBS wants every player to have a lot of copies of a single Calendar resource? The sheer amount of Silks is staggering.

That, and the absence of any other Calendar/Monarchy luxury, is why I suspect we're on a small landmass that has few/no rivals.

TBS probably did put the lone gold and lone ivory there.

[Dark Savant]

Turn 20 (3200 BC)

Fogbusting finally resumes:



Okay, so there isn't an isthmus over there.

We still haven't met anyone yet.  Not that unusual on this map script, but still not quite what we've come to expect at RB.

I don't have a way of checking if those "islands" are part of this landmass are not.  In Civ 2, you could right-click in the fog and see what landmass even unexplored tiles belong to.    So I'll take the two turns to see if there's even more seafood over there.

A far away second city site now looks somewhat safer than normal.

[JR4]

Having more food is nice. Coastal Fish can get a city up to speed quickly but a work boat would use a million turns from the capital so that city will likely have to produce one by itself.

If there isn`t any other players on this landmass there is always the option of settling far away but I still think there is someone to the northwest somewhere. Also, it looks like Sailing could be interesting to settle a city for overseas trade routes.

Are you set on going for Stonehenge? I quite like trying for SH as it would save a ton of hammers long term. And, yes, having several forests in the first ring is obviously a good thing. I must say that the site 2S of the Corn didn`t cross my mind but getting the big shiny wonder would immediately turn it into a powerhouse.

[Dark Savant]

If there isn`t any other players on this landmass there is always the option of settling far away but I still think there is someone to the northwest somewhere. Also, it looks like Sailing could be interesting to settle a city for overseas trade routes.

Played a couple turns since, going to do a bigger report once I play the just-available turn.

Still no sign of anyone.  I think odds are good we're all alone on this landmass.

Are you set on going for Stonehenge? I quite like trying for SH as it would save a ton of hammers long term. And, yes, having several forests in the first ring is obviously a good thing. I must say that the site 2S of the Corn didn`t cross my mind but getting the big shiny wonder would immediately turn it into a powerhouse.

I think I'm mostly set on it; there's no obvious second city site otherwise, and the two other best locations near us both require a border expansion.

Someone non-Industrious may still be able to beat us chopping it in their original city.  I don't think Gavagai is going to make a play for it, with the +1 culture cheap barracks he has.

I'll work out the micro and see when we can get it.  I screwed up the original micro plan, thinking we could have a settler on turn 33 (accidentally counted one chop as 27 hammers, which only is for workers ); there's just no good way to get it out before turn 34.  Ah well.  If we're all alone that doesn't matter as much.