[SPOILERS] Rusten enters uncharted waters

[naufragar]

I need to remember that happiness is a mechanic ( )

I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about.    

I hope to found Hinduism in my 2nd city (PH) and claim the crab and gold for the southernmost city that way.

For third ring gold?

[Rusten]

Hinduism T45 (if after pottery) = crab T47 and gold T66. Should be soon enough if I have other good cities to settle instead -- there's no competition for the gold spot. The 3rd ring gold part might be irrelevant as I need 10 culture in the city for the fish in any case and they'll likely line up similarly.

Anyway, the most important tile to get it going is the crab, and that only takes 2 turns of holy city culture, so it will be available with Judaism (monotheism) as well.
Getting a granary while growing to size 2 on crab is a whole lot better than chop+mining the grassland hill and getting a monument on size 1 and having to wait 10 turns thereafter for any of the seafood. If I'm first to polytheism I could get a lucky religion spread while building the granary and skip a monument entirely, or, depending on how early I can tech monotheism, whip a missionary in city #2 and send it there. Or maybe even get a 2nd holy city in fish+gold upon reaching monotheism.




But even without religion spread growing to size 2 --> whip granary and regrow to 2 --> whip monument is not bad.

P.S. Having said that, I didn't really take into account how a 45 hammer granary changes things compared to a 60 hammer one. Having it be self-sufficient works out as the city only needs 15 hammers to whip the granary after monument as opposed to 30. Immediately chopping+mining the grassland hill and going monument --> granary is adequate, so I'm not being as clever as I originally thought.

I had city #3 tagged for copper, but that's not a requirement if I'm on an island of my own (will know this by then). If there's no competition to settle in any direction then going for fish+gold backwater city as #3 is absolutely an option as it's a pure sandbox and only output matters, but I imagine I'll find something about as good to the north to settle 3rd.

[The Black Sword]

It appears TBS was in a generous mood allocating at least one extra food resource. Forested plains corn is not a B&S regular -- thanks!

Not in B&S but it does appear on this B&S wannabee mapscript Krill sent me. My gifts are harder to spot .

[Rusten]

It appears TBS was in a generous mood allocating at least one extra food resource. Forested plains corn is not a B&S regular -- thanks!

Not in B&S but it does appear on this B&S wannabee mapscript Krill sent me. My gifts are harder to spot .

It's those plains hill sheep tiles, isn't it? 

I hadn't generated any maps with that script yet, that's good to know, thanks again!

[Rusten]

Wrong yet again, there is crab next to the corn. In my defence the presumption was made on the basis that the corn was placed by hand, which is seemingly not the case.

I think I need to run a very different sim where I settle gold first ring as city #2. I see 2 possible dotmaps for this island, but I'm slowly starting to favour the newest version now. Not settling on the PH for fish 1st ring does slow down production a little bit short term, but the extra commerce will help me towards my other important early game goals (Oracle, religion).




As you can see the only settling difference is the tile where the circle and star don't overlap, but the implications it has on development is more severe. Another benefit of this dotmap is that I can delay the southernmost city until much later when culture is easier to come by. Things like the overseas pigs have a much higher priority. Guess it's back to the drawing board for the early turns.

edit: I suppose it's also possible to sette the northern star with crab first ring, but it does waste a forest. Maybe I prefer that actually.

[Rusten]

Hunting-BW-wheel-polytheism or meditation-fishing
2-worker opening that doubles up for city #2. Settle gold+sheep T28 --> holy city as of T34 to add fish. Sheep is improved T29 for earliest growth possible and the gold is available immediately on size 2.
3rd city wheat+crab 1st ring*, chop size 1 granary with the two remaining forests and take sheep from city #2.

  

If I don't get T34 religion it's not the end of the world, but it would be great to enable that coastal fish early. If someone is crazy enough to take one of poly/med before BW I can just choose the other one. Gold rules early. As does +3 happiness when every city has 2+ food resources. No longer getting a work boat before settler for city #2 which is why fishing can be slotted in after religion. Wheel is too useful to delay. Opening feels very tight and strong. These granaries are going to be so valuable. 

*The forest can be chopped before settling for 10 hammers in city #2 -- not a complete waste.

[Rusten]

Landmass is elongating. Would hate to get cut off as I can't make do with just my starting peninsula. Something to be wary about.




Plans for second city and religion remain anyway I think -- the spot is too good to pass up. Overall the commerce level is very high, so getting machinery for the broken xbows won't take very long, especially if I can oracle MC. I immediately expressed my concern about the xbow change in the RtR thread when it was suggested, and I still maintain that giving everyone China's UU (well, almost) is a mistake.

[darrelljs]

Can you theorize from a) your island's size, b) the map size, c) a hypothetical water:land ratio, and d) the number of players in the game whether the pigs island is inhabited?

Disclaimer: this is not a leading question, I haven't looked at the map for the game.

Darrell

[Rusten]

I can make an educated guess, especially with the shape of the starting island becoming clearer after today's turn. I'm unlikely to be alone on my starting continent and the overseas strip of land visible near the crab+wheat city is likely also on the same starting continent. I'm expecting someone either to the north or west of the scout -- possibly both.




Counting east and south from where my scout is standing to the bottom of the island is only ~50 tiles. That means I should have access to more, either inland or offshore. Inland areas will be 10+ tiles away from my capital, which likely means it's closer to a rival, so that leads me to believe the pig island will have a solid chunk of land for me. PH by pig+fish is 7 tiles away which means it might be a contested area.
This is not a map script where there will be a large landmass hidden away as astronomy islands like previous "big" RB games. There are many nooks and crannies (small islands), but not entire large continents.

I don't know how big Pig Island is so I don't know for sure if it's uninhabited, but I will be the one to settle that city. If someone is that landmass they will likely be much further away and it will be a bigger landmass with multiple people. If it's a smallish (~3-4 cities worth) island I hope to have it all to myself. I'm hoping (and believe) it's the latter, something a la what Commodore named Superdead and Silver Island in PB41 which were between my own and SD's starting position. 

Short term I will aim to settle my 3 super-productive starting area cities (that's crab+wheat as #3), and then make a long dash for the newly scouted fish+pigs and make sure I claim that area. This city will be backed by spears/axes in case there's a rival nearby and I can backfill later. If I grab the PH pigs+fish I'll have secured 7 cities on the starting island in addition to some on pig island (hopefully) and that's enough to claim territory by force in the future. The production base will be there and having ~10 great cities could fit in well with a xbow+urukku pike timing. All the commerce should make the push for machinery and engineering effortless, and with my UU I don't need to exceedingly worry about my opponents getting knights before me.

Oracle MC for colossus and either a prophet or engineer GP into machinery --> engineering --> kill looks the best way to go still. This also fits well with grabbing the 3 lucrative cities nearby first as I don't need to spend any hammers on military until I settle the northern (#4) city (allocate hammers towards Oracle). The starting triangle can support wide and ambitious expansion just fine and all military can be sent in 1 direction. I'm very difficult to bully if I can just settle the frontline city in time.

[darrelljs]

Diplomatic implications of settling someone else's continent (from their perspective)?

Darrell