Two new items (really 3) on the banned list:
--Maori shouldn't be banned. They imbalance the game if they are allowed to start on the sea like they are supposed to. However, Sumer is supposed to be able to start much closer to other players and had to be banned by NoQuitters. If Sumer gets bailed out by the make-making process then Maori should too.
--Pillaging city-states if you don't kill them. I would go further but this stops the game from being all about pillage-farming. I would just ban pillaging expect farms and fishing boats.
--Nan Madol because no one would have the balls to place them (GS map-maker allows you to pick city states). Maybe on a gimmick map?
Anyway I feel that things that help you in a good or winning position are much more important in MP then in SP because in MP people drag you back down and this doesn't happen in SP. No one has a civ ability or unit that wins you the game like Cossacks and allow the players are good (Scooter would be a weak link if he didn't have Sullla). So I don't know who would win.
Quote:Alhambram
Yeah, I am surprised too with that spot, I have played civ 6 over 1000 hours and I have never seen 8 adjacent tile for first campus before. I did see 7 adjacent campus as Netherlands with 5 mountains and an river.
This is result of reef very recently upgraded to give 2 adjacency for campus. I don't blame Woden for this, Woden originally intended to wait till saturday so lurkers could look over map, but others were eager to start.
The result is that we landed in such situation where other players might not happy with my starting situation. But if other players has similar yield in starting area, then nevermind my comment.
Oops! Didn't pay particular attention to placing the reefs. Was trying to give a decent location next to the mountains and everybody should have a few of those. There also should be a few double reef locations around the map. At least it will be in range of the volcano and he should have to repair it at least once.
(October 4th, 2019, 11:20)MJW (ya that one) Wrote: Anyway I feel that things that help you in a good or winning position are much more important in MP then in SP because in MP people drag you back down and this doesn't happen in SP. No one has a civ ability or unit that wins you the game like Cossacks and allow the players are good (Scooter would be a weak link if he didn't have Sullla). So I don't know who would win.
I think the game is going to depend on the border between Cornflakes and TheArchduke and if they remain peaceful during the early turns or if the try fighting each other and get drag down in a stalemate.
I think Alhambram will be indecisive for the first 50 or so turns before he gets his act together and scooter will be chasing wonders.
I don't understand scooter's need for Agoge right now. Why research Craftsmanship un-boosted? Seems like a waste of 4 turns of research. He should rolling into Early Empire while spitting out a builder after the settler. I know 2 close barb camps can look dangerous but 2 warriors should be able to take them out, especially with a city state helping out with the southern camp.
If you are going with God of the Open Sky, having a few pastures ASAP would only increase your culture lead. Agoge will shave a turn or 2 off a warrior or slinger build but he has lots of production. Going EE now would also give him access to the settler card sooner and he could pop out an early 2nd settler. Plus, optimizing culture early means a quicker first tier government and better policies.
Nothing game breaking now, I am just surprised that with 3 ded-lurkers, no one brought it up and think he is wasting the advantage the cultural city states is giving him in the early turns and he will let the others keep up with him in the near future.
I'm new to Civ6 and I don't quite remember the the boost for craftsmanship. I think they believe that it will be faster to research craftsmanship un-boosted than wait for the boost and ig they want it asap?
(October 8th, 2019, 13:54)BaII Wrote: I'm new to Civ6 and I don't quite remember the the boost for craftsmanship. I think they believe that it will be faster to research craftsmanship un-boosted than wait for the boost and ig they want it asap?
Boost for Craftsmanship is 3 improvements. I guess it would be faster to get Agoge by researching Craftsmanship un-boosted but I think it is a waste. They aren't planning an early rush and the barbs could easily be dispatched while running discipline for the +5 strength, which you can't run if you are running Agoge. IDK, maybe they can get EE done plus Craftsmanship before they can get a builder out. I just think the better play here would be to get EE down to the boost, then work on Craftsmanship un-boosted if need be.
And, don't mind me, I am just bored waiting for suboptimal to get back from his vacation and PBEM15 to start up again.
For the others,
Alhambram is off to a great start. He has an extra unit out thanks to Granada. He has 2 warriors, a scout, and a settler where everybody else has a settler and only 2 units. He should be able to find his cultural city state soon if he pushes scouting east and be first or 2nd to a new government. The Archduke has found 2 city states and probably a third (Zanzibar) and should have good gold generation and first pick on a pantheon. It will be interesting to see how soon he pushes for the Temple of Artemis. he will probably build a Holy Site beforehand and has a good chance for it if scooter focuses on Stonehenge and the Pyramids first.
Cornflakes is off to an okay start and will have a strong, early 2nd city but needs to push his scouts out a little bit. I believe he has defogged an area just outside of where he could see 3 city state locations but now with the threat of horsemen barbs, it might be a while before he finds them.
Quick start and is shaping up to be an interest game.
(October 15th, 2019, 22:27)scooter Wrote: As for Pantheons, I agree with your thoughts broadly. I was especially against Monument to the Gods when I did the math on how little a difference it makes.
Anyone care to check my math that MotG almost exactly saves one builder charge per qualifying wonder?
Fertility rites would probably be better than that.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Fertility rites would probably be better than that.
Math looks right and agree. If you aren't trying for every wonder, MotG is not worth it, especially now with Monumentality and the ability to faith buy builders. It makes their charges less valuable.
Quote:TheArchduke
Having a cheap religion via Stonehenge, China decided to go for choral music.
Fine by me, go ahead and build Holy Sites to take advantage of this and do not take +faith for wonders. Absolute move, no idea how this got past the lurker crowd over there.
I have to agree with TheArchduke. Don't quite understand the Choral Music choice. Is scooter planning a heavy Holy Site empire? Divine Inspiration for the +4 would have been better. Especially since he should have no problem getting multiple golden ages strung together from building Wonders. High faith means more settlers and faster expansion and bigger snowball.
Choral Music will get him +6 for a Holy Site with Shrine and Temple. Good for the long run but will take some effort to get them going. I guess he took Earth Goddess for faith but not sure how many Breathtaking tiles he has around and how many he will have once he starts laying down mines and chopping wood.
I think this shows the lack of experience with Gathering Storm with all of his lurkers. In some cases, faith is better than gold, since the ratio of production-to-faith is lower than production-to-gold and having a high faith income can really speed up expansion.
Edit: Went back and looked at the belief discussion in scooter's thread and it looked like they went after Choral Music to deny it to the others...like TheArchduke, who will have lots of Holy Sites. Still don't know if it was the right choice.
Is it possible to take the faith from wonders belief when enhancing the religion? If so, taking Choral Music for denial purposes seems reasonable (although I agree that it's a pretty odd one to go after in isolation).
move, no idea how this got past the lurker crowd over there.
would have been better. Especially since he should have no problem getting multiple golden ages strung together from building Wonders. High faith means more settlers and faster expansion and bigger snowball. 
for a Holy Site with Shrine and Temple. Good for the long run but will take some effort to get them going. I guess he took Earth Goddess for faith but not sure how many Breathtaking tiles he has around and how many he will have once he starts laying down mines and chopping wood. 