Blizzard bans 'Hearthstone' pro for Hong Kong protest support

[MJW (ya that one)]

NBA can ban whoever it wants (hi Donald Sterling) so not banning him is an implicit endorsement of him and therefore the protestors (it's not possible to be neutral on an issue like this so if you okay with him you support the protestors). They might as well put a banner on their website "we support Hong Kong". Also China will win this in a walkover because this will blow over in five minutes in the west and there's no way NBA or Blizzard would lose enough money here to come even close to China.

[Mardoc]

I thought it was just free speech idealism, but if you're seeing it as a casus belli, then there's no point in discussion.

Free speech idealism would be if I supported Hong Kong last week, before the PRC involved US citizens, speaking in English on a US platform.  It's probably not especially moral for me to care more about my countrymen than about the residents of Hong Kong, but I do anyway.

You westerners don't actually realise that the NBA has pissed off anywhere from tens of millions to half a billion in China over the Hong Kong tweet

I don't believe it.  There is no such thing as public opinion in China, no such thing as meaningful statistics about China.  There is merely what the Chinese government wants us to believe, and a bunch of suppressed private opinions that we have no way of knowing about.  Maybe in a century historians will be able to evaluate this, if it turns into WW3 as you predict.

Yes, it is a platform they don't have access to. So what?

Well, for starters, that means that any Chinese subject who is upset in public about this was informed about it by the Chinese government and they are expressing the reaction that government wants to hear.

On an emotional level I'm sort of with you, but I don't totally agree. I think companies like Blizzard and the NBA are putting these pressures on themselves in pursuit of money. These are global companies, and this is the cost of doing business in China.

That's the main reason why I'm attempting to moderate my reaction.  It might be that no Chinese official asked for the censorship, that Blizzard jumped out and preemptively censored themselves.  It seems unlikely, but it's not like I've seen the evidence.  Shouldn't jump ahead to punishment before determining the facts and the culpability.

Also, I would have a different reaction if I thought Blizzard were concerned about Chinese customers rather than the Chinese government.

[Gustaran]

This has nothing to do with "western" or "eastern" values. It's a totalitarian one party state that suppresses free speech and violates human rights on one side vs. a movement for democracy and basic human rights on the other.

You're from Germany, right? How many 80+ yr old grandmas have been sent to jail for Holocaust denial? How many times has the government leaned on social media companies to stifle anti-immigrant posts?

Each society has its own forbidden speech for people living in it. What China is additionally doing is to require of foreign businesses to follow certain restrictions to do business there. Their place, their rules, otherwise you are free to not do business there.

While it is true, that western societies have somewhat different standards when it comes to free speech, I think this comparison is ludicrous and a prime example of "Whataboutism".
First of all, free speech does not mean anarchy. Every country has limits on free speech when it come to slander and defamation or is inciting violence. You are perfectly fine to go on Facebook and post "There are too many immigrants in Germany". You can not go to Facebook and post "We should burn all the dirty Arabs coming to our country."

The holocaust on the other hand is a well documented event that is corroberated by countless international scientists & eyewitness as well as a vast amount of physical proof (it's almost like the Tianenmen square massacre in that regard).

The major difference is that in Germany, you will be indicted if you lie about a globally accepted historical event, while in China you will get arrested when speaking the truth about (or even mentioning)  a globally accepted historical event.

But if your only take away from this is "but all countries limit free speech", I think your view is rather narrow minded.

China has setup the most advanced digital censorship and propaganda system on the planet. Do you think TV in China features interviews with protesters from Hong Kong, where they have the chance explain their reasoning and their demands to the Chinese people so they can hear both sides of the story?
Hell no, the Chinese propaganda machine is in overdrive, labelling the protesters as an angry mob. Of course the Chinese public is not going to sympathize with them.

Why do you think the vast majority of Western social media sites are completely blocked? Because the Chinese government is afraid that their lies are going to be exposed if all Chinese people can comfortably access sites like Wikipedia.

[BaII]

I think something people tend to forgot is how much power these corporations have. For all the talks about China censoring free speech or requesting these kinds of censorship the one's who are following through with it are the companies and it's interesting to see them wield such power since they're the ones following through with these actions.

[darrelljs]

Well, that is one reason why I am happy you are posting so much ipecac. I don't think you understand western thinking as much as you claim, but hopefully we all can at least understand the other position a bit more regardless of whether or not we believe they ate correct

I don't think he's Chinese.  He's almost definitely from Norway .

Darrell

[pindicator]

Then the "you westerners" bit fooled me

[Commodore]

Well, that is one reason why I am happy you are posting so much ipecac. I don't think you understand western thinking as much as you claim, but hopefully we all can at least understand the other position a bit more regardless of whether or not we believe they ate correct

I don't think he's Chinese.  He's almost definitely from Norway .

Darrell

Singapore is the Norway of East Asia, it's true.

[ipecac]

Singapore is the Norway of East Asia, it's true.

Spoilsport. It was funny how I was Norwegian because I used 'realpolitik', which is a word in English.

[ipecac]

I don't believe it.  There is no such thing as public opinion in China, no such thing as meaningful statistics about China.  There is merely what the Chinese government wants us to believe, and a bunch of suppressed private opinions that we have no way of knowing about.  Maybe in a century historians will be able to evaluate this, if it turns into WW3 as you predict.

Well, for starters, that means that any Chinese subject who is upset in public about this was informed about it by the Chinese government and they are expressing the reaction that government wants to hear.

Also, I would have a different reaction if I thought Blizzard were concerned about Chinese customers rather than the Chinese government.

As nationalistic as you are to call for WW3 over Heathstone and the NBA, why not allow that the Chinese are also nationalistic?

[ipecac]

First of all, free speech does not mean anarchy. Every country has limits on free speech when it come to slander and defamation or is inciting violence.

The holocaust on the other hand is a well documented event that is corroberated by countless international scientists & eyewitness as well as a vast amount of physical proof (it's almost like the Tianenmen square massacre in that regard).

The major difference is that in Germany, you will be indicted if you lie about a globally accepted historical event, while in China you will get arrested when speaking the truth about (or even mentioning)  a globally accepted historical event.

How is Holocaust denial 'slander and defamation or inciting violence', especially by an 89 year old grandma? Being globally accepted or not is irrelevant, what matters is the deemed threat to social stability or established values.