October 12th, 2019, 15:02
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I have not read posts here but I just want to state my position that in principle I support Blizzard's decision - and I am saying as possibly the most anti-China person around here. A gaming tournament is a terrible place for political speech. As far, as I know, all players have signed an agreement prior to the tournament in which it was stated that they cannot use it as an opportunity to promote their political views. One of the players violated it, and the punishment was in order.
I think, however, that Blizzard overreacted, banning a player for an entire year is way too harsh. Also, I doubt that it was a principled decision. Would they ban a player for expressing support of a political cause which is overwhelmingly popular with their target audience (e. g. the War on Climate, the latest Western fashion)? I think they would not.
October 12th, 2019, 15:31
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(October 10th, 2019, 22:32)ipecac Wrote: Help me. Show me how much you understand.
The real reason not to is such an attitude precludes meaningful discussion. It’s the same dismissive attitude the left has towards blue collar Trump voters in middle America, and unsurprisingly they aren’t winning any converts either.
In my case...well, I lived in Penang, Malaysia for three years and made many lifelong friends of Chinese descent; as I mentioned upthread I work with the HK police and have been there >10 times; I used to have a team in Chengdu, China and I’ve been to mainland China >20 times; I still have a person on my team from China (who just spent a month in Beijing and had some interesting things to share); one of my best friends is from Taiwan and provides another regional POV; I’ve read probably a dozen books of Chinese history, historical fiction, and philosophy, some translations from Chinese authors. Those be my bona fides  .
(October 10th, 2019, 22:32)ipecac Wrote: All this furor about 'whatboutism' simply boils down to the fact that the outrage is extremely selective. A lot of this outrage is due to the media's fanning of the flames, and so it's hard to take it seriously. It's not rational at all, with calling for WW3 being extreme but characteristic of the type of the 'white hot rage' reaction.
You seem to be operating on the misunderstanding we need to justify what upsets us. South Park are heroes for championing free speech at the cost of money, Blizzard and the NBA are villains for not doing so. It’s really not that complicated.
Darrell
October 12th, 2019, 16:02
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I don't know why it's not mentioned in the statement, but apparently Blitzchung is not being kicked out of Hearthstone Grandmasters either. This was the biggest original punishment, the 2nd tier Hearthstone circuit is almost non-existent so getting kicked out pretty much ends your career, regardless whether the additional ban is 6 months, 12 months or 0 months. I'm still a bit confused as to how it will work, but if his Grandmasters games are unaffected and the ban only applies to other events then it is a really light sentence.
They still seem to be taking it out on the casters though.
Some other stuff about the statement bug me, but I need to think about it a bit more.
October 13th, 2019, 01:53
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(October 12th, 2019, 11:42)Gustaran Wrote: If you read through this report from ai (which I haven't done, it's 50 pages) it seems they use different sources: Official accounts, many eyewitness reports as well as accounts of international reporters.
It's too long.
Quote:You can argue semantics all day long: The indisputable facts are, that a movement demanding political changes and freedoms from an oppressive government was confronted and ultimately brutally struck down by the military.
Discuss details all you want: If people were killed on Tiananmen Square or 2 kilometers west, if 17 soldiers lost their life or 50, this is the typical strategy of trying to reach the excuse that "both sides were somehow wrong".
A bereft of context, simplistic, black-and-white view.
Quote:For that reason, if an oppressive government such as the Chinese uses the military to continously deprive its citizens of their basic rights and freedoms, use of force to overthrow the tyranny is warranted. Even if the protestors had been fully armed and stormed the National People's Congress, they would have been in their rights to do so.
Governments are within their rights to resist those who seek to overthrow them.
Quote:Yes, it's stupid that there were two married judges in the court
If the Court of Appeal has such nonsensical reasoning, I don't hold much hope for the rest.
October 13th, 2019, 01:58
(This post was last modified: October 13th, 2019, 01:59 by ipecac.)
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(October 12th, 2019, 15:31)darrelljs Wrote: The real reason not to is such an attitude precludes meaningful discussion. It’s the same dismissive attitude the left has towards blue collar Trump voters in middle America, and unsurprisingly they aren’t winning any converts either.
In my case...well, I lived in Penang, Malaysia for three years and made many lifelong friends of Chinese descent; as I mentioned upthread I work with the HK police and have been there >10 times; I used to have a team in Chengdu, China and I’ve been to mainland China >20 times; I still have a person on my team from China (who just spent a month in Beijing and had some interesting things to share); one of my best friends is from Taiwan and provides another regional POV; I’ve read probably a dozen books of Chinese history, historical fiction, and philosophy, some translations from Chinese authors. Those be my bona fides .
Great.
Quote:You seem to be operating on the misunderstanding we need to justify what upsets us. South Park are heroes for championing free speech at the cost of money, Blizzard and the NBA are villains for not doing so. It’s really not that complicated
You guys don't owe me anything, of course. One does hope that both the Chinese and Americans will have nuanced views and a desire to understand the other side, but that basically never happens. Nationalism rises, tribalism increases.
Time to prepare for Cold War II. Hopefully it stays cold.
October 13th, 2019, 02:38
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But it is fitting, fitting for the so-called Age of Reason to be crowned by a Descent into the basest emotions and tribal instinct. Trappings have changed, but the essence of Man has not altered.
October 13th, 2019, 06:39
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(October 13th, 2019, 01:58)ipecac Wrote: You guys don't owe me anything, of course. One does hope that both the Chinese and Americans will have nuanced views and a desire to understand the other side, but that basically never happens.
Where’s the nuance? A US company is muzzling free speech to appease China. I read the rules you cited, nothing in them prohibits political speech and it didn’t cross the line of “disreputable” or “offensive”. Am I missing something?
Darrell
October 13th, 2019, 08:38
Bobchillingworth
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Yeah, the part where "post per sentence" Richard Spencer here isn't interested in arguing in good faith.
October 13th, 2019, 14:52
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