October 16th, 2019, 08:31
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Scooter completed Stonehenge last turn. No religion founded yet though and I suspect it is because Scooter doesn't have a pantheon yet (he was at the bottom of the religious rankings all game, I think until Stonehenge completed). Singaboy had that issue in PBEM 7 and with so many dedlurkers I'm surprised to see it pop up again, especially since I have seen Sullla post in his thread a couple of times and he was on Singaboy's team.
The turn opens with a Declaration of Friendship offer from TheArchduke. I turned down an initial DoF offer when we first met, but I thought long and hard about this one. Here's an end of turn screenshot showing the situation:
The western scout brings greetings from Valletta! I could have met this CS by T10 easy had I gone directly west through the desert with my starting warrior  Oh well, the production will help now as I push out settlers in Colonization. So to the question of DoF with Japan ... TheArchduke moved his scout onto my horse pasture this turn. That is a somewhat unfriendly move there. TheArchduke still only has this scout plus his starting warrior for military, but his scout could cause some headache pillaging improvements and my about-to-complete-campus. I wouldn't want to declare war anyway in the next 30 turns so I decided to accept the enforced peace. We have a fairly stable border and shouldn't be in a settler race for any sites. I'll have a strong hand to play in 30 turns with Varu and horsemen so I probably won't renew the DoF at that time. But for now the DoF will allow me to pump out settlers and builders with just my two warriors to defend against barbs.
Next settler will be out in 8 turns. I'll delay Early Empire 1 turn to sync the policy swap out of Urban Planning and into to Colonization with completion of the builder and campus. Then I'll build a settler in both cities, followed immediately by another settler in Dark Chocolate. Settlers are penciled in for northern Jade > SE across desert > Cliffs of Dover vicinity. Here's the plan for the current units:
- Western scout: will defog all the land in that direction, which appears to end at Valletta. This will allow me to see any barb camps which spawn in that direction. That should work out well timing-wise for the scout to then wrap along the southern coast and end up near Palenque just when needed to fog bust ahead of the settler for that area.
- Warrior in my core: will head north to make sure a barb camp doesn't spawn awkwardly near the Jade and will guard that settler + the builder out of Gummies.
- Builder in my core: will use its final charge to quarry the stone at Gummies
- New builder out of Gummies: Farm marsh rice at Chocolate (which gets picked up this turn) > Mine Jade > ??? ... may harvest 2nd ring stone at Jade city in order to plant holy site there, maybe harvesting into a Galley for the Valletta quest before the Ancient era ends.
- Northern warrior: Will continue to push back fog to the north for a few more turns, hopefully meeting one of TheArchduke's city states. As soon as I meed a CS in this direction he'll turn homewards again, hopefully within about 5 turns.
- Eastern Scout: Will head east, then probably edge northeast. If the land to the west does indeed end at Valletta I'll have the western scout turn east and cover the south part of the map, while this eastern scout takes the north.
If I can manage to get Suzerainty of Valletta with a decent faith stream (from TAD and Scooter founding religions + Holy Sites) that can turn into some impactful  >  conversion. I could faith-purchase a watermill for the Construction eureka for example, or purchase a monument at one of the newer cities to speed tile acquisition. TheArchduke will likely try to compete once he meets them.
October 16th, 2019, 08:36
(This post was last modified: October 16th, 2019, 09:50 by Cornflakes.)
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One more thing ... note my empty treasury and increased culture in the above screenshot. I decided to proceed with the monument purchase at Dark Chocolate. This will help the snowball by shaving several turns off of Political Philosophy (ETA T50) as well as speeding along tile acquisition. The marsh rice will be acquired end of this turn, followed by the grass rice (campus site) in 8-9 turns. After that the two grass forest hills which can be shared with Gummies should be picked up next by the time I reach Construction for lumbermills.
October 16th, 2019, 19:16
(This post was last modified: October 16th, 2019, 19:16 by Cornflakes.)
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October 17th, 2019, 15:54
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Scooter's culture rate still exceeds (or equals) mine with God of the Open Sky +2, Monument +2, 1 more pop, and amenities bonus in both cities! He's really rocking culture right now. I know he has a cultural CS but he must have more than that. We have the same number of civics completed, so we are ranked by culture rate on the World Rankings. I would be really surprised if he didn't get a 4th civic this turn since he has had that cultural CS since very early.
When my Campus district completed this turn I observed a score increase of +2 so either I mis-remembered the district points when I thought it was +3, or it was changed in one of the expansions. I will have to go back and adjust Japan's pop in the comparison tables. I have appointed Pingala to govern Dark Chocolate establishing in 3 more turns. Had the first real disaster in my area!
Megacolossal volcano eruption! Previously there was a flood which affected one tile (yellow) and a dust storm which added a couple production to the desert (red). The volcanic eruption erased the woods in the area so the yields didn't change much. Those yields are looking tempting for one of the upcoming cities. Does anybody know if volcanic soil hills can be mined? Does the volcanic yield bonus remain when the tiles are improved?
In the north I've revealed enough terrain to start discussing dotmap to pick up the Cliffs of Dover for the juicy culture  yield:
Have to run now but I'll describe the options later. Solid dot is what I currently think is the best option. Open dot is alternate configuration.
October 17th, 2019, 18:18
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Volcanic soil hills can be mined, and do keep their extra yields when improved.
October 18th, 2019, 08:53
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You also get era points for improviing volcanic soil tiles though I think it might only be for the first time you put down a type improvement.
October 18th, 2019, 09:51
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(October 17th, 2019, 18:18)williams482 Wrote: Volcanic soil hills can be mined, and do keep their extra yields when improved.
(October 18th, 2019, 08:53)suboptimal Wrote: You also get era points for improviing volcanic soil tiles though I think it might only be for the first time you put down a type improvement.
Thanks 
T39:  found another city state in my backlines that I missed out on by a couple tiles:
Note the red 2SW of the scout indicating CS located 4SW of the scout. Also note the unusual tile yield on the plains forest hill 1W of the scout. There is no resource indicated on that tile yet it has an extra production with no reason that I can identify. ... in the north:
Just when I started to turn the warrior homewards I spotted a CS. I intended to move W-SW on the flatland tiles to head back south along the coast, but spotted red 2NW. I'll continue 2 more turns NW before returning home. It is very rough terrain so it may be the classical era before this warrior gets home.
Looking at the mini-map the big-picture geography is a bit awkward in the long term. There is clearly nobody near to the southeast since I mat Palenque first more than 20 turns into the game. I suspect that Palenque is near the midpoint between the neighbor on the east (putting them around 30 tiles away). But even though there is a lot of room, the eastern sea will make expansion to the east difficult. TheArchduke's 2nd city essentially isolates me into my own corner of the world. I will need to eventually break out and claim more land. The question is how and when.
A) I could push south and east peacefully. Problem is this gives me two totally isolated fronts which cannot easily reinforce. Peaceful expansion to the east will only work if I can gain a foothold on the north side of that sea so that I can stage defensive forces in the middle. I realize I don't have a good screenshot of the area but it is very rough and mountainous. There are several 1-tile passes which inhibit maneuverability. Even if I gain that foothold to the north I won't be able to effectively deploy troops to defend myself and could easily be cut in two.
B) Push north by invading Japan. I think that this is my only real option in the long term. Therefore I need to consider when would be the best time to launch an invasion. Varo give me a clear edge in the classical era, that fades into primarily defensive relevance in the medieval (when Varu can compete with knights strength-wise but are too slow). Another advantage of earlier war is that I can obtain a 2nd religion by capturing it from Japan. I will muse over the implications of classical war and see if I can come up with a viable plan. Here are some first-though implications of Classical war vs. Japan:
- Priority for settling my next cities: Short term production-focus & quick development would be priorities.
- Districts: delay building districts, focusing on unit production in the classical era and then coming back to fill out the districts later.
- Religion: Ideally I would like to found my own religion before capturing TheArchduke's cities so that they won't auto-convert with their holy sites. I would like to keep at least one of TheArchduke's cities following his religion in order to purchase missionaries and spread a single charge around at all my cities for the 2nd follower belief.
- Logistics first draft: Varu + horsemen for the first wave, pillage Japan back to the stone age, kill any existing army and prevent Japan from massing forces. Then follow up with Swords + ram to crack city walls.
- Timing: DoF ends T64. I'll be expanding out to 5 cities in the next 15 turns. I can put Chocolate and Gummies onto Horseman + Varu production immediately after their settlers > builders. ETA to political Philosophy is T50 (yes, only 11 turns from now) so I should easily be able to pick up Maneuver for boosting mounted unit production in that timeframe. I don't think I'll quite be ready by T64, but maybe.
- Road: with the extremely rough terrain, a road would be very useful in speeding along an invasion. I will take 12 turns for a trader to construction a road to the Japanese border city so I'll need to get the trader completed by T51. I think that will be just doable after Chocolate goes Settler > Settler.
- Golden Age Dedication: My science and culture will be humming along. Economy would be focused on unit production, and I have an outlet for faith purchases via Valletta. Therefore Exodus of the Evangelists is tempting to speed up the religion and ensure that I acquire one before eliminating Japan.
The earliest thing that needs to be considered is any adjustments to dotmap with the next settlers completing in 3 turns, 6 turns, and 8? turns from now.
October 18th, 2019, 15:49
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T40 Civ Comparison
| Civ | Cities | Pop | Techs | Civics | Gold | Faith | Districts | Military |
|---|
| India | 2 | 7 | 5 (+11 /turn) | 4 (+7.4/turn) | 59 (+7.3/turn) | 2 (+0/turn) | 1: (1) Campus | 57 |
| Japan | 3 | 8 | 4 (+9.4/turn) | 3 (+4.2/turn) | 141 (+13/turn) | 90 (+6.3/turn) | 2: (2) HS | 30 |
| Hungary | 2 | 7 | 5 (+???/turn) | 3 (+???/turn) | ??? (+???/turn) | ??? (+???/turn) | 0 | ??? |
| China | 2 | 7 | 4 (+???/turn) | 4 (+???/turn) | ??? (+???/turn) | ??? (+???/turn) | 0 | ??? |
Biggest improvement for me: Campus completed, bumping up science considerably. Biggest improvement for Japan: Settling city #2 ... and also:
 Japan stole the first-to-meet envoy from Hattusa in my backlines TheArchduke must be laughing now. There is a Hattusa warrior under the pop-up which TheArchduke's scout met last turn. I feel like I botched the early game scouting, but I also feel like my scouting moves at each step along the way were logical. I after moving the scout and meeting Hattusa I paused for quite some time to think through my plans. I confirmed my evaluation from last turn, that war through Japan is necessary in the long term AND that war in the shorter term favors me more than Japan. With this in mind along with fairly complete scouting knowledge for my next ring of cities I reconsidered my dotmap, city founding order, and build queue plans. Here's the end of turn screenshot:
I marked out Cities #'s 3, 4, and 5 along with the settler source. Chocolate will have a settler out in 2, Gummy's settler will take an additional 2 turns due to cost escalation (out in 7), and the final settler out of Chocolate should take 7 turns (out in 90, 2 turns after Gummy's). That should be within a turn or so of hitting Political Philosophy for a civics swap out of Colonization, as well as new government.
City_3 will build a builder first. That builder will take approximately 10 turns and will be completed right when needed to head north and improved tiles for City_5. City_3 needs no improvements for quite some time but will have excellent production. After the builder I may build a Holy Site (+5 spot available 2NW) or start on military, probably horsemen due to distance from the front. A Varu would take 16 turns (half an age  ) to reach the closest Japanese city!
City_4 I haven't decided for sure what it will build first. Maybe slow build a horseman? But probably proceed with the original Galley for Valletta's quest if it will be completed before the age rolls to classical.
City_5 will be a slower developing city and will probably not contribute to the war. Plan currently is to build a very slow Watermill first for the Construction eureka because of all the wheat available. I'll probably buy the cows tile to improve for culture, farm the wheat, and maybe harvest the crabs with the 3 builder charges from City_3 (crab harvest gold would go towards purchasing the Cliffs of Dover 3rd ring tile to work for the culture).
Chocolate: After the 2 settlers > Trader > finish builder that has a few cogs invested already > Varu > Varu/Horsemen
Gummies: After the settler > Government Plaza for a title to recruit Magnus > military, including chopping of Varu/Horsemen with the 3 charges from Chocolate's builder.
Plan of attack is to accumulate at least 2 Varu and 4 horsemen as close as possible to the DoF expiration, following up with 2 warrior > sword upgrades. That should be a formidable force hitting right as the classical era arrives. The longer I wait the more chance that Japan will have a GGeneral recruited from their cheap Encampments (+ faith to patronage). I'll evaluate further over the weekend. The revised settling plan I think is superior regardless, and the next 10 turns will be settlers and builders anyway so the Gear_For_War phase decision doesn't have to be made for about 10 turns.
October 21st, 2019, 08:01
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Change of plans over the weekend: only 1 settler out of Chocolate, not 2. No change to the dotmap, I’m just delaying City_5. I decided that if I’m committing to a Varu rush I better go all in. City_5 wouldn’t contribute anything to a Classical war. Instead I’m putting the 110 [base] cogs into a Varu. First though I’m building the trader and builder that were planned while waiting for the Maneuver policy card to boost mounted unit production.
The builder from City_4 will probably be used to Magnus chop military (probably swords + ram at the 2nd wave to crack walls) while my initial production goes to horsemen + Varu. The change to rams only applying to Melee class is making the war planning more interesting for sure. Under the original rules I would just pump out horsemen and Varu without even thinking about Swords. Another thing I’m considering is whether it makes sense to build the Tier 1 government building. I could swap into Oligarchy just before completing the Tier 1 building and unlock the Oligarchy Legacy card for an additional +4 combat strength on melee (+8 total including the base Oligarchy). Cost is 150 production, and it would not affect the horsemen or Varu. Current though is that it makes sense because the swords will be critical for cracking walls. The strength bonus will reduce the damage they take on defense from wall and archer ranged attacks, as well as boosting their strength when assaulting the walls. Timing would probably be best to complete right as the swords arrive. Therefore Magnus can go to City_4 first, chop everything there into 2 swords + ram, then re-base to Gummies and chop out the Tier 1 building. Which Tier 1 building is another question.
Warlord’s Throne gives +20% production for 5 turns after capturing a city (including City States). Since I will be capturing cities, will this outweigh the benefit of +50% production towards settlers and a free builder at each new city? Each builder would be worth around 80 , and on average I’d probably settle a new city every 10 turns. Add in the +50% and the total is about +15 /turn. This obviously scales up through the game but for time value purposes I think it is safe to consider that constant as long as I consider the +20% from Warlord’s Throne constant as well. Current empire output when I start capturing cities will be about 50 /turn base, so 20% would be 10 /turn. And I have to keep capturing cities every 5 turns for this to be effective. Given the size of the map I’ll want to keep pumping out settlers for quite a while so I think Ancestral Hall makes the most sense. In a tighter map Warlord’s throne might be better.
**************************************************
I don’t think I’ve mentioned the Chinese religion yet. They founded Taoism a few turns ago and selected Choral Music + Defender of the Faith, on top of the Earth Goddess pantheon (+2 on tiles with breathtaking appeal). I find Choral Music odd since China doesn’t have a strong incentive to build Holy Sites or their buildings. It seems like Choral Music will draw out extra production expenditure and divert their focus. I’m a bit disappointed because I hoped that Japan would take that belief and allow me to easily acquire it through the war. I am glad though to see Defender of the Faith isolated across the map from me.
October 21st, 2019, 08:23
(This post was last modified: October 21st, 2019, 08:25 by williams482.)
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The government legacy policy cards were changed in Gathering Storm to only become available after you change out of the appropriate government. I.E, no oligarchy stacking.
Additionally, the extra yields you are seeing were most likely deposited by some weather event, probably a sandstorm for the first two and a flood for the third.
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His empire score is 22, with 2 district at 3/ea + 2 cities at 6/ea + 4 pop at 1/ea. For a cross-reference I'm at 19 with no districts and 7 pop so the math checks out if it is still 3 points per district. I can see that his 2nd city has 3 pop so his capital somehow dropped down to 1 ... on T35. Obviously must have a settler out on the map.