October 28th, 2019, 21:43
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Turn 49
Ok, I found TheArchduke. He’s miles away. The map layout is starting to come into clarity? It seems we’re kinda set up like a ribbon or wide X. Something like this:
TAD--------------------Alham
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
CRFLK-----------------scooter
Something like that? That’s my best guess at the moment. Seems very likely Cornflakes is west of Palenque and southwest of TheArchduke.
I seem to have found another city with my exploring warrior off to the east. Almost certainly a city-state given where other players are located.
I swapped Longxi to walls for at least a turn or two. Our builder there is like half-complete, but it feels too important to get some turns into it at minimum. Also, I did confirm nobody has any Great General points yet. So there’s that at least. As for the question of gold - well Alhambram picked up another 17g this turn, so it seems his gold output really is strong. Yeah, I’ve got no idea. But whatever he did, that power is very high, and I can’t think of many reasons for it to be so high. As I’m typing this, I realized I forgot the DoF again. I blame the lack of sleep . I’ve left myself a note for next time.
October 29th, 2019, 18:45
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Turn 50
Alhambram’s cash went up another 29g this turn, and I just don’t understand where that kind of income is coming from. If he’s got that kind of income and power, it does seem likely he levied somewhere along the line. I sent the DoF. We’ll see what happens. I expect him to decline. In the meantime, I was thinking about governments. The main reason is I’m like 90% sure I’m about to meet my third city state off to the east next turn (I moved closer, and the settler view clearly shows I’m nearly there), which would essentially complete Political Philosophy for me.
My plan has been Autocracy for the wonder and tile yield boost… However, Oligarchy obviously appeals quite a bit if there’s a chance I get rushed. I’m wondering if I ought to split the difference. So, I put charge 1/5 into the Pyramids this turn. Changsha’s production is so poor, though, that even once I complete all 5 charges, I’m going to have to slow build for 3ish more turns. If I first go into Autocracy, the extra 10% puts me just over the top and completes Pyramids a bit sooner. If I still want Oligarchy, I have another option.
Military Tradition is only a 4T research next, and I’ll want it for Maneuver for sure. That would give me a free swap 4T later, which is pretty much perfect. That lets me get a +4 strength to my units, which stacks with DoF to give me a +9 strength boost in the area around Longxi. If Alhambram wants to try slamming into that, good luck, especially if I can complete walls in time. Perhaps I ought to swap back to the builder at Longxi, and if I see Alhambram coming, I can simply harvest the second stone to complete the walls? Slow building walls like this while we have unimproved tiles feels slow and wrong.
I think this would make me somewhat safe. I’m pretty inexperienced at Civ6 combat mechanics, so who knows if it would go well for me or not, but I’d have second thoughts in his shoes at least. Seem sensible?
October 29th, 2019, 19:59
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I think autocracy -> Military Tradition -> Oligarachy is a sensible plan - Alhambram can't get an army down here before you could reach Oligarchy anyway. Oligarchy will give your warriors a strength of 29, which will let them sort of hold their own against swords. The real benefit will be your 44 (!) strength horsemen, which Alhambram won't be able to match until he gets a great general.
As for wall building, I'm not sure what is best. Let me think aloud here. The main benefit of walls is forcing your opponent to bring a ram, and adding some HP to the city. They won't save a city without an army to back it up - any enemy who controls the land can patiently siege down any wall. Combined with the Oligarchy thing above, the only real way to deter Alhambram is an army of horsemen. Their superior speed and striking power in our own territory will allow ~4-5 to see off the archers and swords Alhambram will bring.
With that in mind, I'd be more inclined to get the walls up first, then have the builder (if necessary) harvest the stone -> Maneuver -> a couple of horsemen. My reasoning is the main worry is Alhambram can more or less magic armies up out of nowhere with his levy ability, while he uses his own production to either supplement or to build ahead with infrastructure while we're forced to match his rented army with a hand-built one of our own. At the same time, we have very limited production capacity at the moment - basically just two cities, since Changsha, while a great city long-term, can build basically nothing on its own at the moment. The stone harvest will let us spit out lots of horsemen quickly, with the boost of maneuver to boot, while harvesting walls will "waste" the maneuver boost. So I'd be inclined to use the research time of HBR to build out walls, then use any "luxury" time on a builder, before starting a horseman army.
If Alhambram doesn't attack, the horsemen will be good for deterrence and for conquering our local city states - we don't want those as knives hanging around for Hungary to slide into our backs down the road.
October 29th, 2019, 20:00
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I need to double-check on Hungary's levy ability - does he get combat bonuses with levied troops? I'm anticipating strength 39 swords vs our 44 horses, but I could be wrong.
October 29th, 2019, 20:23
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I legitimately have no idea how Alhambram is outputting these kind of civ-wide yields. 23 beakers/turn, 17 culture/turn, and apparently 30 gold/turn, all on Turn 50?! Those are all far in excess of anything that we typically see at this stage of the game - like, *FAR* in excess of where a civ would normally be. I'm totally stumped as far as how he's doing this.
Hungary's levied city state units get +2 movement and +5 strength so that's something fun to keep in mind. With Defender of the Faith and city walls you'd probably be fine, but the extra movement and the extra unit strength doesn't mean that you can take anything for granted.
October 30th, 2019, 18:00
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(October 29th, 2019, 20:23)Sullla Wrote: Hungary's levied city state units get +2 movement and +5 strength so that's something fun to keep in mind. With Defender of the Faith and city walls you'd probably be fine, but the extra movement and the extra unit strength doesn't mean that you can take anything for granted.
+2 movement is quite a problem - that means he could be upon us much sooner than I anticipated when I thought about timelines for getting defenders out.
Nothing can be done until HBR is done, of course, but after that I'd at least get some horses into the build queues.
October 30th, 2019, 22:37
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(October 29th, 2019, 19:59)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: I think autocracy -> Military Tradition -> Oligarachy is a sensible plan - Alhambram can't get an army down here before you could reach Oligarchy anyway. Oligarchy will give your warriors a strength of 29, which will let them sort of hold their own against swords. The real benefit will be your 44 (!) strength horsemen, which Alhambram won't be able to match until he gets a great general.
As for wall building, I'm not sure what is best. Let me think aloud here. The main benefit of walls is forcing your opponent to bring a ram, and adding some HP to the city. They won't save a city without an army to back it up - any enemy who controls the land can patiently siege down any wall. Combined with the Oligarchy thing above, the only real way to deter Alhambram is an army of horsemen. Their superior speed and striking power in our own territory will allow ~4-5 to see off the archers and swords Alhambram will bring.
With that in mind, I'd be more inclined to get the walls up first, then have the builder (if necessary) harvest the stone -> Maneuver -> a couple of horsemen. My reasoning is the main worry is Alhambram can more or less magic armies up out of nowhere with his levy ability, while he uses his own production to either supplement or to build ahead with infrastructure while we're forced to match his rented army with a hand-built one of our own. At the same time, we have very limited production capacity at the moment - basically just two cities, since Changsha, while a great city long-term, can build basically nothing on its own at the moment. The stone harvest will let us spit out lots of horsemen quickly, with the boost of maneuver to boot, while harvesting walls will "waste" the maneuver boost. So I'd be inclined to use the research time of HBR to build out walls, then use any "luxury" time on a builder, before starting a horseman army.
If Alhambram doesn't attack, the horsemen will be good for deterrence and for conquering our local city states - we don't want those as knives hanging around for Hungary to slide into our backs down the road.
Yeah, this all makes sense. My fears at this point is whatever I can do may simply not be fast enough. HBR is still 7T away. Ugh. That movement buff is the real killer like you said.
(October 29th, 2019, 20:23)Sullla Wrote: I legitimately have no idea how Alhambram is outputting these kind of civ-wide yields. 23 beakers/turn, 17 culture/turn, and apparently 30 gold/turn, all on Turn 50?! Those are all far in excess of anything that we typically see at this stage of the game - like, *FAR* in excess of where a civ would normally be. I'm totally stumped as far as how he's doing this.
I’m… glad I’m not the only one stumped? He’s just utterly blowing me away right now even without the potential levy shenanigans.
Turn 51
Archery in.
Meeting a city-state next turn down here and completing Political Philosophy. Is that a militaristic city-state? I mix that shade of color up a lot in city-states. Anyway, kinda of a blah choice normally, but future turns may not be so normal.
Alhambram is up to 24/18 science/culture, literally tripling me in both counts. I’m super confused by this. Did he just like lock down every string of perfect city-states or what? No clue.
He also spent a bunch of gold, going from 203g -> 89g. Given that he’s been gaining nearly 30gpt (??), he may have spent around 150g. That feels like yet another piece of bad news. Upgrades maybe? On the bright side, still no signs of him north… But the settler view makes it clear I’m very close based on loyalty. Really kicking myself for getting up that far and turning around earlier, but I felt kinda forced by barbarian pressure.
October 30th, 2019, 23:08
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Those look like orange borders, so an Industrial state, I think. I think? Hard to tell. Doesn't matter, you'll find out next turn anyway.
Let's see...Alhambram is pulling 24 science, 18 culture, and 30 gpt. Those are absurd yields and I have no idea how.
Gold is probably the easiest to explain - say he met 2 Commercial states, that's instantly +8 right there. If he has plantation resources like Cotton, Silk, bananas, or camps like deer and truffles (so roughly mirroring our resources), well, 2 cotton plantations gets you 10 gold alone, truffles get you 5...so probably some combination of those things.
Science and Culture? Hm. Figure he met 4 city-states, that could be 4 points in each. If he has, say, Goddess of Festivals, that's +1 culture per plantation, which with his crazy gold might be worth 6 or 7 culture? But 24 science on turn 50 is madness. A natural wonder in his capital, like Galapagos or something?
Bottom line: I have no idea. But we're in trouble. He'll pull further ahead if we build horses instead of infrastructure, but if we DON'T and he attacks us with 5 or 6 swords, we just lose outright.
October 30th, 2019, 23:16
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Yeah, the problem with attributing so many of these issues to city-states is I'm pretty confident TheArchduke got a few as well, and there's only so many to go around.
(October 30th, 2019, 23:08)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: Bottom line: I have no idea. But we're in trouble. He'll pull further ahead if we build horses instead of infrastructure, but if we DON'T and he attacks us with 5 or 6 swords, we just lose outright.
I definitely agree with this very morbid part . Plan at this point is just to try to survive for now and figure out the rest later I guess.
October 31st, 2019, 02:52
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At least if Alhambraham is coming the city with DoF is first in line. Could he have map knowledge enough to enable him to bypass it, or threaten to and force you to fight outside your borders*? How long until religion establishes in your other cities?
*I'm assuming DotF works inside city borders: I don't actually play enough Civ VI to know.
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
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