[SPOILER] - Suboptimal finds trees, still seeks forest

[suboptimal]

I've run the numbers and the settler is going to Marshed. Transit time is 7 turns, settlement would be on Turn 59. The differences in city growth and relative payback are too great to not go to Marshed given the recent developments there. For comparison, unimproved yields at Marshed vs NE after 20 turns are as follows. I'm including 2 scenarios at each location.

NE, settle SE of Wines: Found Turn 57. EoT77: 3 population (growth to 4 is > 10 turns out), 143 19 11.4 21

NE, settle SW of Wines (puts Iron 2nd ring): Found Turn 56: EoT76: 3 population (growth to 4 is > 10 turns out), 143 19 11.4 21

Marshed, as-is: Found Turn 59. EoT79: 4 population, 56 24.5 14.7 10

Marshed, buy 34 plains upon settling: Found Turn 59. Eot79: 4 population (5 pop EoT83) 132 26 15.6 5

The no-buy situation is "aggravated" by the fact that the city will likely grab salt -> sheep -> 34 plains and would have to work an open plains (or a coast) if the jungle to the SW is paved over. Buying that tile allows the city to get out a builder and half a Campus (or all of a Campus and most of a builder) over the first 20 turns. With Urban Planning running both the district and the builder would be completed. In that time the builder could mine or farm the 7-yield tile, mine or farm the 31 tile and mine the salt (+1+2).

Note that I fully expect that volcano to erupt again, though hopefully not as forcefully as the megacolossal eruption it just did -- those are supposed to be rare events. It also seems that the tile NW of the volcano will be the main beneficiary of any future eruptions if my "disasters repeat" theory holds any water.

[CFCJesterFool]

The spot marked "Mashed settler" is now a pretty good location. It might make a pretty decent secondary settler pump (since volcanic soil can be mined.) Maybe ditch the campus and get a harbor as a first district? Have the city build civilian and military units plus traders. You do need a good support city and cities with splendid adjacency district options really need to get the districts built as a priority. I'd say that the Northeast area can wait a little to be settled. Good call on getting Pingala back to a more useful spot. Regardless of whether Magnus gets a second promotion later, boosted chops are going to be a useful tool to get districts built.

[Banzailizard]

Even though I supported the Marshed location previously, because of the iron I am not sure if it is best to settle south first. How long until you can get the iorn hooked up if you go marshed first. Remember it needs to accumulate now in gathering storm.

[suboptimal]

Banzailizard: The NE location would be slow to pick up the iron. If we put it SE of the wines the iron would be third ring, the city would grab the two wheat first (turn 70 and turn 85), so we'd have to purchase two tiles to gain access to the iron. If we settle SW of the wines (and eliminate the future spit filler site) the city would acquire the iron culturally on Turn 70. A builder would complete a few turns before that, so the iron would be mined on Turn 70 (settle + 13). If we go to Marshed first then the iron would wait until we got another settler built (likely in the 70's). We will have iron at Mashed hooked up in 7 turns (T58). I also noticed that I forgot to back out Urban Planning from the NE production numbers. They equal Marshed + tile buy at 132.

The fastest way to do it would be to settle on the iron on turn 58. That gets the iron but the city would need an Aqueduct to grow reasonably (and there's a lack of food). It does reach the +5 Campus location to the northeast (tile buy required) and the wines would be the first to be culturally acquired. We'd also lose the and from a mine being placed on the iron.

Jester: When I settle Marshed I'd likely place the Campus and then build other stuff (builder, maybe an archer for backup), then build the Campus once some mines were up (salt, probably sheep and the 7-yield tile). The city, without Agoge and with Urban Planning, could get out an archer in 7 turns and it would take 8 turns to get to Khmer.

I think with the massive yields available at Marshed that city will be more useful quicker. It's also closer to Khmer and could start sending units down that way if need be.

[suboptimal]

As an FYI if there's a comment to my follow-up above I'll be playing my turn around 10pm EST (0300 UTC) tonight.

[CFCJesterFool]

As an FYI if there's a comment to my follow-up above I'll be playing my turn around 10pm EST (0300 UTC) tonight.

What I am saying is that I'd rather have the tile yield (3 2   ) instead of a risky campus.  I've played at least a dozen games where a campus district near a volcano got wrecked three or more times. There are plenty of spots available to build high adjacency campus districts. You can always build the +3 campus at "Marshed" later on (hopefully after a few more eruptions) but I wouldn't place the district just yet (which will remove the tile yield permanently.)

[suboptimal]

Sometime between the pinmap post and the finding forest post I decided that I was going to put the Campus on the jungle hill SW of the city marker. That's a +1 location but it would pick up adjacency from a Harbor district placed just west of the city (and make the Harbor a +3 district).

[suboptimal]

Turn 52

I get a warning that the Ancient Era is over in 9 turns. Don’t recall seeing the 10 turn warning but whatever. Everything else appears to be quiet.

Settler at Mashed is done. My count to Mashed was wrong, we’d settle on Turn 60, not Turn 59. Sailing is at eureka + 1, switch to Iron Working. Will research that for 6 turns then switch off to Wheel or Astrology. The more I think about the situation the more I think that Marshed is the current better option for the settler. Slightly longer to get to but the city will be more useful more quickly. Moving the settler SW onto the Campus reveals a 3 rice two tiles to the west of the turtles.

The northern archers move, with the one closer to home coming south. I’ll use that one to defog the area just northeast of Dauphinoise that’s still in the fog. The archer by Brussels moves west and...finds a continental boundary. This archer is going to continue west to find the northern route to Australia.

Settler and warrior move towards LARV site. Settler will arrive in two and then found. At Au Gratin, Pindicator has withdrawn his redlined warrior. Something has also raised the garrison value in Conquest of Paradise by three. Archer, perhaps? For now that will remain a mystery. The city is low enough in loyalty where its production has been reduced to 0.3 per turn. The monument will still finish next turn as it got before loyalty applied and it’s at 59.7 by my count. Encampment gets placed in the tile that Pindicator vacated, with a hilariously long build time of 270 turns. Maris Piper takes advantage of the newly found line of sight and can’t shoot at the warrior?




The warrior is within the thin brown line indicating the area of effect. However, left-clicking on the warrior doesn’t do anything but clear the ranged attack mode. Ditto the warrior on the left. That’s a problem – the game is saying I have valid ranged attacks but then the game doesn’t let me shoot. The Encampment should not cause any LOS issues as it is not counted as an elevation change. The only thing I can think of is that since they are on flat ground they are “behind” the hill and hidden, but that shouldn’t matter, should it? (Not according to Victoria’s LOS guide at CivFanatics, anyway). Moving up to shoot is not an option – if the archer is in the city then Pindicator could shoot at Maris Piper, attack with his undamaged warrior and then Alhambram, in theory, could declare war and attack for the kill. The only good news is that if something appears on the tile east of the redlined warrior I should be able to shoot that since it’s a hill.

Disappointed, I move the warrior up anyway to see what’s around, based on the prior turn’s theory that it won’t get killed even if there’s a second warrior there. The route is open:




Next turn if that situation remains the same I’ll move the warrior and Maris Piper west. I bring the NW archer to the SE and it will take Maris Piper’s place next to Alhambram’s warrior if I do shift to the west. If the warrior needs to retreat then I’ll just back everyone up one and figure out my next move.

If it does stay open then the plan is to move SW, take out those two warriors and then turn eastwards to attack Conquest of Paradise over the salt tile and the forest that the wounded warrior is standing on. The line of approach will also give me advance warning of anything that might be at Res Publica.

[suboptimal]

Turn 53

I don’t know if I’ve missed it or it just happened, but the intro to the game is now the Classical Age one. Should have caught that earlier. The past few turns I’ve been expecting to see some “unit damaged” notifications but not getting any. This turn continues the trend. I have notifications that Au Gratin has stopped growing and is losing loyalty. It has finished the monument and loyalty decrease is now 2.7 per turn. Up north the archers and settlers continue their movements. The trader at Dauphinoise is complete and it starts a trade route to Au Gratin for +1+1 and the Currency eureka. I start an archer there and a 193-turn builder at Au Gratin. The former for backup and the latter for, well, to give the city something to do right now.

The situation at Khmer has changed as an archer has made an appearance and a warrior is also garrisoned at Conquest of Paradise:




I don’t believe that the archer could shoot Maris Piper and we’ll find out about the other direction next turn as I perform my unit shift as intended. Warrior & Maris Piper west, western level 1 archer SE and I leave the other promoted archer in the city center. In the rear I move the warrior and unpromoted archer west so the latter can start moving up as well. If I can’t shoot the archer then I’ll badly damage the warrior. If I get shot at by the archer and can shoot back then Maris Piper will shoot the archer, the Level 1 archer will advance and shoot the warrior and the warrior will go in for the kill. In this case it works if Maris Piper doesn’t suffer the high end of the damage range from either the warrior or the archer. Otherwise I might have to retreat and swap out with the level 1 archer to heal.

I’ll be curious to see what comes from that builder as I fully expect a chop to occur. Pindicator spent on something – he had 58 last turn, makes 7 per turn and has 7 this turn. That’s enough for a slinger upgrade. Let’s see….milpower 114, he’s got a scout (10), a badly wounded warrior (11), at least two other warriors (40) and an archer (15, I think). That leaves 38, which would be enough for a warrior and an archer plus change or two warriors. Archers can cause more problems so I’ll assume that scenario for the time being. My priority needs to be killing the archer that’s visible.

[Banzailizard]

FYI just noticed now that Alhambram's military score went up by 70 ish between turns 51 and 52. I know you have been focusing on Pin but thoughts on that?