[SPOILERS] TheArchduke blasts into Space as Russia

[TheArchduke]

I rechecked and that was the agreed stance that I also quoted and said I agree.

As I am not dowing Cardiff for conquest and not for giggles and loot I think everything is in order.

[TheArchduke]

I agree, but we use forests mostly for faith and all other positions for the (discounted) encampment were terribly suboptimal.

Why put it down on the first turn then? You could start the monument, get a builder over to that tile in time for Magus to settle in, and chop monument -> encampment, which should leave you with a lot more net production into the encampment than five turns of production and whatever marginal cost savings can be found from planting the district five turns earlier.

As for chopping ships, Galleys are 65 hammers, which is approximately one unboosted forest chop at this point in the game. Magus will bump that 50% with no overflow-cutting bullshit, but the +100% policy on top of that will basically eliminate any overflow off a galley chop. In short, DO NOT RUN MARITIME INDUSTRIES if you are planning on chopping ships. You will lose more production than you gain.

Are you sure this is still true if I build 2 galleys after each other and chop the first one?

Even though I don't agree with every decision, I think that this last turn was extremely well played. The best decision was pausing the attack on Cardiff to pillage the mine and trade route. I forgot how much gold that's worth now in Gathering Storm - 200 additional gold is another future horse into cossack upgrade, very nice work! As soon as that warrior dies, you can move into position to pillage the last mine and hit the city state with triple horses at once plus an archer with ranged attack. Russia now has 400 gold for upgrades and Cree has zero gold for upgrades. I can't see TBS wanting to attack into Defender of the Faith given that situation, but if he does, you've done a fine job of being ready to defend yourself. Just a couple more turns and you'll have knights + crossbows along with the necessary money for unit upgrades. Hopefully this will be a nothingburger and you'll both sign a new Declaration of Friendship but you're in excellent shape even if things go south.

Other less important details:

* I spotted the unhappy notice at Timbermist this turn. That suggests using one of the builder charges at Spice Melange to connect the whales for another set of amenities (this is the one downside to swapping out of Classical Republic: a loss of amenities at each city). You might also look at trading an excess happy resource to one of the other players for one of their excess resources. Kaiser's weak enough that it wouldn't matter if you did a luxury for luxury swap, right?

* Hopefully you'll get a peace deal with TBS and can go smack the new barb camp in the west with some of the Cardiff units.

* How much faith is the next settler? Act on Instinct should be just about ready to create one for the Eastern Rampart site. That city's make great progress on its Campus district worth another 10 beakers/turn. And on that note, Just Do It has an 8 beaker/turn Campus site that it can work on as soon as the shrine gets finished. Really liking how the research side of the game is progressing here.

* Let's talk upcoming civics research for a minute. The upcoming civics in some order are going to be:

Feudalism (already boosted)
Military Training (build an Encampment: in progress now at Spice Melange)
Mercenaries (have 8 combat units: already done)
Civil Service (grow a city to size 10: not going to happen unfortunately)
Guilds (build 2 markets: doable and something to work towards for the trade routes)
Divine Right (build 2 temples: in progress now at Hell March and then Atreides)
Reformed Church (have 6 cities following your religion: in progress now with missionary)

The one boost that I think you should work on is Guilds: build 2 markets. Hell March just needs the market and I'd suggest going for this after the temple finishes. The other candidate city is Funky, which can build a (discounted) Commercial district as soon as its chariot finishes. The desired tile next to the Government Plaza was even helpfully picked up by the tile picker! If you can get these two markets build for the Guilds boost, they would potentially combine together with the Harbor at Cardiff and the initial default trade route to get up to 4 trade routes total. That's the boost for Medieval Faires which will also come down the civics pipeline in the nearish future. The only civic you won't be able to boost is Civil Service and that's pretty good if you can land everything else.

* Faith output is just amazing right now at more than 90/turn. There should be enough for 2 more settlers and hopefully a builder or two before Monumentality runs out at the end of the Golden Age. (Maybe you can even get to a second Golden Age which would be amazing. I've been assuming that Russia will fall short.) This is another reason why I think Liang should be the next governor if at all possible: with Feudalism's Serfdom policy and Liang in place, you can faith-purchase an instant 6 charge builder at a target of your choosing. There are a whole bunch of tiles that need lumbermilling, so if you had enough faith for something like 3 builders with that setup in place, there's 18 charges to play around with across your territory. Your territory is a little underdeveloped right now in terms of tile improvements and this would make a HUGE difference. If you don't take Liang here, the next governor promotion doesn't become available until Guilds or Medieval Faires roughly 15 or so turns away. So again, I'll call for Liang over Victor and trying to set up for some of those tasty faith-bought 6 charge builders.

* Last question: when does the next era begin? Has the 10 turn countdown started yet? And is there any way to see what Golden Age dedication the other players picked? I'm thinking that all that culture from TBS and Cornflakes might be partially coming from the Pen, Brush and Voice dedication (the replacement for Meritocracy policy) and it would be interesting to know. Keeping fingers crossed that TBS won't go aggressive here!

Thanks. In the current situation any attack by TBS is a bad choice, but I have been there before. I am reoffering a DoF this turn.

Yep, amenities are a little issue, one which was offset by the autocracy yields, and Hell March remains happy. Still something to keep in mind.

The next settler is 405 faith and will be bought next turn for Eastern Rampart.

Liang is my primary choice as well, but one I take once a DoF has been signed. So far there are no units in the desert.

The next era has 20-40 turns. So I think we are more then fine.

[TheArchduke]

Turn 81

So Initial deployment.

   

Afterwards

   

And then considering the situation again, I double attack Cardiff. Either TBS dows me into a DoF supported Horseman or he leaves me alone and takes the DoF.

   

An attack on Akkad is under way, which figures Kaiser´s strength and the total absence on troops on my border in the east.

   

We encounter Valetta which would have been "JACKPOT!" earlier. Quest is a GG, Kaiser has 3, Cornflakes 2 envoys. We need to get Amani and an envoy there pronto.

   

The ball is in TBS court. But Cardiff is mine, I hope my show of strength (tile buy and sword upgrade shows I am serious.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I rechecked and that was the agreed stance that I also quoted and said I agree.

As I am not dowing Cardiff for conquest and not for giggles and loot I think everything is in order.

If read the rule it doesn't make exception for conquest as you can fail it on purpose to continue farming. This was explcit in my first post. I didn't say anything about trading units through... You could take them out before R&I and you cannot farm them enough to break the game. So it's only the mine that's the problem.

[TheArchduke]

I rechecked and that was the agreed stance that I also quoted and said I agree.

As I am not dowing Cardiff for conquest and not for giggles and loot I think everything is in order.

If read the rule it doesn't make exception for conquest as you can fail it on purpose to continue farming. This was explcit in my first post. I didn't say anything about trading units through... You could take them out before R&I and you cannot farm them enough to break the game. So it's only the mine that's the problem.

I am quite confused where you see the problem. 

The statement that was accepted by all was CS are fair game when you dow the Suzerain.

[Woden]

I think the question is that there are multiple posts that state "No pillaging CS except for farms and fishing". These posts are before the discussion on DOWing city states, so there looks to be confusion if all pillaging is allowed or if limits to pillaging farms and fishing is what was agreed. It has been brought up in another player's thread. It might be best to ask for a clarification from the group in the tech thread. I or a lurker can bring it up if you want, for some cover since you have not meet everybody yet.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Oh archduke thought the DoW rule overrode no raiding? This is incorrect because there were multiple posts that had both rules.

[williams482]

Are you sure this is still true if I build 2 galleys after each other and chop the first one?

Let's pretend an unboosted chop is 64 hammers, because that's easier. Magus makes that 96 hammers, Maritime Industries makes that 192 hammers towards the galley. That galley is completed with 127 hammers of overflow. That overflow is then reduced in the dumbest way possible: All 96 hammers added by the +100% card are subtracted, leaving 31 hammers. In this case, that's the exact same result as if you hadn't used the bonus policy.

Now imagine our galley is at 30/65 when we chop. 192 hammers go in, 157 overflow comes out. That overflow is then reduced by 96, leaving 61. Also same as without the bonus.

So I misspoke, you won't lose any hammers by running the policy, it simply adds nothing in the aggregate for large overflow situations like this because all the benefit is deducted. The losses are all opportunity cost for dumping that chop into something with a boost that won't be finished with substantial overflow, or into something which can't be hard-built with help from a policy card.

[TheArchduke]

Oh archduke thought the DoW rule overrode no raiding? This is incorrect because there were multiple posts that had both rules.

On a read through of the whole thread I noticed on page 3:

This looks good.

Tentative list

TheArchduke
Suboptimal
Pindicator
Ichabod (possible teamup)
Cornflakes
Alhambram
Scooter (needs Hungary ban)
Kaiser

I would love to see a 7-8 player game.

Please check the ban list.
My suggestion would be to do Continents. With that many players Continents could work.

Chevalier as a mapmaker?

MJW thanks for the summary. my suggestion:

BANS:

- VA
- Scythia
- Hungary (Yeah, I gotta agree there)
- Maori (makes a map very whacky)
- Religious Settlements Pantheon
- No pillaging CS except for farms and fishing.


No Bans, but use common sense:

- No tactical dows on Australia

I am unsure about Nan Madol, there are some rather nasty buffs around from CS like from Geneva and Monumentality in a golden Age is as strong.

This means I have 150 gold illegaly.

I either have to keep my money above 150 gold or buy delete a unit. I will check things when the turn comes around.

EDIT: Still a bit unclear as discussion went on. For now I will just not use the money and see what comes up.

[williams482]

Buying and deleting a Heavy Chariot would be 130 gold, which is most of the way there. A Horseman would be 160, slight overkill. Those two seem to be the closest, except for maybe deliberately upgrading an archer just before slotting in Professional Army.