[spoilers] wetbandit prioritizes civ4 over more profitable endeavors, again

[wetbandit]

If you think you're Artillery wasn't that effective, it would have been even force for me. In my sim, even on flat ground, my Artillery did very little collateral damage. So when I realised the effect of collateral-immune units it turned out better for me to just keep my Artillery in my cap, reducing collateral damage instead of dealing it.

The fact you ran sims for it increases how much you deserve this win. 

It’s a little disappointing to discover that this is how collateral works in this situation. I don’t even think bombers would crack your stack unless you had multiple turns. 

I’m interested if charriu completes his code dive and discovers something strange.  It’s odd imo that your cav was basically untouched. Seems like there’s some preference to target higher hp units and if they happen to be collateral immune, thems the breaks.

[Mr. Cairo]

If you think you're Artillery wasn't that effective, it would have been even force for me. In my sim, even on flat ground, my Artillery did very little collateral damage. So when I realised the effect of collateral-immune units it turned out better for me to just keep my Artillery in my cap, reducing collateral damage instead of dealing it.

The fact you ran sims for it increases how much you deserve this win. 

It’s a little disappointing to discover that this is how collateral works in this situation. I don’t even think bombers would crack your stack unless you had multiple turns. 

I’m interested if charriu completes his code dive and discovers something strange.  It’s odd imo that your cav was basically untouched. Seems like there’s some preference to target higher hp units and if they happen to be collateral immune, thems the breaks.

The civfanatics thread where I first read about the effect of collateral-immune units said that Bombers do deal collateral to them, and I just quickly tested it out and it is the case. So enough Bombers would have absolutely done the job. I just don't know how many it would take to deal enough damage that a Medic 3 unit doesn't heal them all up on the interturn.

[wetbandit]

The civfanatics thread where I first read about the effect of collateral-immune units said that Bombers do deal collateral to them, and I just quickly tested it out and it is the case. So enough Bombers would have absolutely done the job. I just don't know how many it would take to deal enough damage that a Medic 3 unit doesn't heal them all up on the interturn.

Yeah, I think that would be the issue with bombers is the number you could bring to bear on any given turn.  You're talking about Sirian Doctrine 101 though so theoretically infinite numbers if you had control of the sea and sufficient time to build enough that you could deal enough damage that wouldn't be healed on the interturn.  If not, then you're limited by how much land is in range and your willingness to turf everything over with forts, subject to the same limitations.  I think with the way your capital was positioned that carriers were required, and flight+radio was too much.

You'd also have to be dealing with armies of hundreds of units which I'm not sure the game designers may have envisioned how these things would come into play.  I wonder how this changes if the ranged value (borrowing from charriu's thread) is 1-101 or 1-1001 instead of 1-10001.  I think the actionable information from all of this is that once units reach 80-90hp, they likely may not be selected as a collateral target.  

It may never come up again in competitive play, but it was interesting, albeit extremely disappointing, to see that I was basically walking in with no chance.  I maintain that if Aztec didn't try to detour through my territory, you would have been in trouble.  I was planning to head towards Yokel in order to force you to split your defenses 3 ways.  I don't think you would have had as much chance to survive if you had to split all of your defenders.

[JR4]

It may never come up again in competitive play, but it was interesting, albeit extremely disappointing, to see that I was basically walking in with no chance.  I maintain that if Aztec didn't try to detour through my territory, you would have been in trouble.  I was planning to head towards Yokel in order to force you to split your defenses 3 ways.  I don't think you would have had as much chance to survive if you had to split all of your defenders.

I agree that making Mr. Cairo split his defenses to all his three culture cities is the right thing to do. Still not sure if our stack would have been strong enough to withstand Mr. Cairo`s collateral and if he could get rid of our stack before concentrating on yours he would likely be able to sweat out the siege. Maybe I should have thought about upgrading Catapults to Artillery a bit earlier? We did have a Great Merchant sitting around too, for emergency upgrades.

You know, I don`t really have a lot of experience with modern warfare but it was fun playing around with Tanks and Fighters.

[wetbandit]

It may never come up again in competitive play, but it was interesting, albeit extremely disappointing, to see that I was basically walking in with no chance.  I maintain that if Aztec didn't try to detour through my territory, you would have been in trouble.  I was planning to head towards Yokel in order to force you to split your defenses 3 ways.  I don't think you would have had as much chance to survive if you had to split all of your defenders.

I agree that making Mr. Cairo split his defenses to all his three culture cities is the right thing to do. Still not sure if our stack would have been strong enough to withstand Mr. Cairo`s collateral and if he could get rid of our stack before concentrating on yours he would likely be able to sweat out the siege. Maybe I should have thought about upgrading Catapults to Artillery a bit earlier? We did have a Great Merchant sitting around too, for emergency upgrades.

You know, I don`t really have a lot of experience with modern warfare but it was fun playing around with Tanks and Fighters.

That makes two of us!  I had EP enough to see tech, but I thought you were going to go for Radio as well since you bothered to get fighters.  Otherwise that's a whole lot of money that could have been upgrades.