We had a brief discussion about potential balance mods in my PBEM 17 thread. I had posted the changelog to the RB Mod that was being worked on a year or so ago, then someone else mentioned the Better Balance Game mod being used by the Civplayers community. The changelog that Jabah posted was from the draft RB Mod but the steam links are for the BBG mod.
That is NOT the BBG mod, which is at the link he's provided. The complete changelog for the BBG mod is spoilered below; the mod is currently in use by the Civplayers community, if that means anything positive or negative.
Full Changelog Civs and Leaders
AMERICA
Continent combat bonus is attack only
Film studio tourism bonus reduced from 100% to 50%
Rough Rider UU is now a Cavalry Replacement:
Class: Light Cavalry
Cost: 340
Combat: 62
Movement: 5
Maintenance: 2
Special: +5 Combat on hills, gain 25% of enemy strength as culture for kills on home continent
Mustangs (UU Airplane) strength reduced to 90
ARABIA
Worship Building enhancement bonus increased from 10% to 20%
After researching Astrology, gain 1 Great Prophet Point per turn in the Capital.
Mamluks can now upgrade into Cuirisser
AUSTRALIA
Leader Ability Bonus Production reduced to 0% when targeted with a declaration of war and reduced to 50% when liberating a city state.
Tlachtli UB cost reduced to 100, now provides +3 culture instead of +1 culture/+2 faith
BRAZIL
no changes
CANADA
+8 Food and +8 Production for cities with a National Park
Hockey Rink UI now at Civil Service
Mountie UU buffed to 70 combat strength and Nation Parks bonus radiuses increased to 4 from 2
+1 Food on Tundra and Tundra Hills tiles
CHINA
Crouching Tiger UU is now a Crossbowman replacement with the following stats:
Cost: 190
Ranged Combat: 40
Combat: 30
Range: 2
Maintenance: 3
Special: +7 Ranged Combat Strength when attacking adjacent units
CREE
UU scouts can move faster through woods and rainforest, but no free promotion
EGYPT
+1 food on floodplains
Iteru production bonus increased to 25%
Sphinx UI Updated as follows:
+1 Culture, +2 Faith
+1 Culture and +1 Faith if adjacent to a Wonder
+1 Food and +1 Production if built on a desert tile without floodplains
+1 Culture if built on floodplains
+1 Culture at Diplomatic Service
+2 Appeal to each adjacent tile
Sea Dog UU is now available at Exploration (was Mercantilism)
FRANCE
Tourism from wonders boost reduced from +100% to +50%
Chateau UI updated as follows:
+2 Culture
+1 Housing
+1 food and +1 gold for each adjacent luxury resource
+1 Culture for each adjacent Wonder
Now available at Feudalism (was Humanism)
Must be built adjacent to a river
GEORGIA
Leader ability updated: Now provides 50% of slain enemy unit base combat strength as faith.
Tsikhe UB is now a replacement for Ancient Walls that provides +3 faith (and +3 tourism at Flight). Also wall strength is between ancient walls and medieval walls, at 100.
Khevsur UU is now a Swordsman replacement with the following stats:
Cost: 100
Strength: 35
Maintenance: 2
Class: Melee
Special: +5 combat in hills, moving on hills costs only 1 movement
Requires 5 Iron on online speed
GERMANY
Extra District is now available at Guilds instead of game start
GREECE
Acropolis UD: Bonus envoy now requires an amphitheater
Extra wildcard policy card delayed until Political Philosophy
Gorgo Leader Ability reduced to 25% culture from kills
HUNGARY
Huszar UU gets +2 combat strength for each alliance instead of +3
Black Army UU get only +2 combat strength per adjacent levied unit
Levied units only get +1 movement instead of 2
INCA
Warak'aq ranged strength reduced from 40 to 30
INDIA
Stepwell UI:
+1 food moved from Professional Sports to Feudalism
+1 food for every adjacent farm
Chandragupta:
military and religious units get +1 movement
Gandhi:
+1 movement to Builders and Settlers
additional belief when founding a religion
+50% production to Holy Site buildings
INDONESIA
Jongs require 5 Niter on online speed instead of 0
JAPAN
Commercial Hubs no longer receive river adjacency bonus
Samurai UU availability moved to Feudalism
KHMER
Domrey's are catapult replacement that can move & shoot, and have +5 offense & defense
Prasat UB now provides a free missionary when built (requires a majority/founded religion)
Trade routes to or from other civilizations provide +2 faith for Khmer, and +2 faith for the sending civilization
Aqueducts are half cost (+100% production)
Holy Sites get +2 faith from adjacency when placed next to a river
KONGO
Mbemba UU requires 5 Iron (online speed)
KOREA
Seowon UD
+2 science as base, increased by +1 for every 2 adjacent mines
Theater Squares provide 0 adjacency instead of -1
+1 adjacency for Theater Squares
culture bombs when completed
MACEDON
+20% production in all cities for 10 turns after taking a city
Hetairoi no longer replace Horsemen, allowing for Cav pre-builds
Hypaspist requires 5 Iron (online speed)
MALI
NO CHANGES
MAORI
Toa strength kept to 40 (firaxis nerfed hard)
Toa now 2 maintenance instead of 0
MAPUCHE
Combat Bonus versus civilizations in a golden age reduced to +5
Chemamull UI now provides +1 production and an additional +1 production at Civil Service
Malon Raiders are now a Courser replacement with the following stats:
Cost: 200
Combat:44
Maintenance: 3
Movement: 6 (instead of +5 combat when within 4 tiles of borders)
Special: pillaging only costs 1 movement
MONGOLIA
Trading posts no longer give +1 diplomatic visibility
Ordu UB cost cut in half (60 production now)
NETHERLANDS
UU requires 5 niter on online speed
NORWAY
Berserker UU adjusted to be 35 strength, +15 when attacking, may be purchased with faith, comes at Feudalism, and gets +2 movement when embarked
Stave Church gives +1 Faith to all resource tiles in the city instead of additional adjacency bonus for woods
Holy Sites get major adjacency from coastal tiles, and +50% production towards the district and associated buildings
Harbors get +2 adjacency from an adjacent Holy Site
Melee naval units production bonus reduced to 25%
NUBIA
Ranged unit production reduced to 0
Experience bonus reduced to 25%
Nubian Pyramids UI now provides 2 of the appropriate resource for adjacent districts (food for city center) and can be built on all floodplains, flat plains, and flat grass
Pitati Archer reduced to 25 strength
OTTOMAN
Grand Bazaar now a Market replacement instead of Bank replacement
PERSIA
No longer receives a movement bonus when declaring a surprise war
Immortal Adjusted to 35 Combat (was 30) and 20 Ranged (was 25)
Units get +3 Combat Strength when attacking
Pairidaeza get +1 Culture when adjacent to a Campus
Pairidaeza get +1 Gold when adjacent to an Industrial Zone
Pairidaeza get +1 Gold when adjacent to a Harbor
Internal trade routes get +2 Culture at Medieval Faires
Internal trade routes get +4 Culture at Urbanization
Internal trade routes get +2 Gold at Banking
Internal trade routes get +4 Gold at Economics
PHOENICIA
NO CHANGES
POLAND
Now receives a relic upon founding or completing a religion
Winged Hussar availability moved to Divine Right (was Mercenaries)
ROME
Baths give minor district adjacency bonus in Culture
RUSSIA
Now only receives 4 bonus tiles when founding a city (was 8)
Cossack UU Combat reduced to 62
Lavra gets Writer, Artist, and Musician points only when city has a Theater Square
Lavra Great Prophet Points reduced from 2 to 1
SCOTLAND
Happy bonus increased from 5% to 10%
Ecstatic bonus increased from 10% to 15%
Highlander has +10 Defense Strength
Golf Course UI updated as follows:
+1 Culture and +2 Gold
+1 Culture and +1 Gold if placed adjacent to the city center
+1 Culture if adjacent to an Entertainment Complex
+1 Amenity
+1 Housing at Urbanization
+1 Culture at Diplomatic Service
SCYTHIA
Kurgan UI now provides +1 production for each adjacent pasture
Civilization Ability is updated to allow faith-purchasing of any light, heavy, or ranged cavalry units
Saka Horse Archer has been updated as follows:
Cost: 70
Ranged Combat: 25
Combat: 15
Maintenance: 2
Range: 2
Movement: 4
SPAIN
Mission UU updated as follows:
+2 Faith
+2 Science if adjacent to a Campus
+2 Faith if on a foreign continent
Available at Theology
Provides +1 Housing at Civil Service
+2 Science at Enlightenment
+2 Loyalty if on a foreign continent
Fleets unlocked at Mercenaries instead of Mercantilism
30% discount on Missionaries
SUMERIA
+3 influence points per turn towards envoys
War Cart UU now a Heavy Chariot replacement with 32 strength and costs 1 maintenance. Has a chance to capture defeated Barbarian and City-State units
Ziggurat UI +1 culture moved from Cultural Heritage to Diplomatic Service... also gets +1 science and +1 culture at Enlightenment
SWEDEN
+50% production towards Factories and Universities
ZULU
+5 Corps and Armies bonus delayed to Nationalism
Non-Unique Units (replacement UUs also adjusted)
All planes -10 combat
Siege units get +10 ranged defense
Anti-Air guns moved to Steel tech
Privateers are now available at Exploration
Infantry buffed to 72 Combat and 3 Movement, and cost 1 niter maintenance
Warrior Monks +5 combat strength (40 now)
World Wonders and Natural Wonders
Great Library: Now Available at Drama and Poetry
Hanging Gardens: Now provides +1 housing to each city within 6 tiles
Venetian Arsenal: Changed to provide +100% to ship production
Crater Lake now gives +2 Food, +2 Science, and +4 Faith
Cliffs of Dover provides an additional +2 Food, and can be settled
Dead Sea provides an additional +2 Food
Eye of the Sahara provides +2 Food, +2 Science, and +2 Production
Galapagos Islands provides an additional food on adjacent tiles
Lake Retba gets +2 Food added
Pantanal gets +2 Science added
Ubunsur Hollow now provides +2 Faith, +2 Food, and +2 Production
Goibustan now +4 Culture and +4 Production
White Desert now +2 Science, +2 Culture, and +6 Gold
Chocolate Hills now +3 Food, +3 Production, and +1 Science
Devil's Tower grants 2 Faith to adjacent tiles instead of 1
Huey now gives +2 culture to lake tiles
Religions
All worship buildings production cost reduced
Dar E Mehr now gives +2 culture in total instead of +1 faith per era
Work Ethic now +2 production per shrine and +4 per temple
Divine Inspiration now +6 faith per wonder
Crusade reduced to +7
Lay Ministry is now +2 Faith/Culture for appropriate districts
World Church is +1 Culture/3 Foreign Followers
Cross Cultural Dialogue is +1 Science/3 Foreign Followers
Pilgrimage is now +3 Faith per foreign city
Tithe is now +1 Gold/3 Followers
Zen Meditation now requires only 1 district
Religious Communities now applies to Holy Sites
Itinerant preachers percentage increased to 40 from 30
Pantheons
Dance of the Aurora only applies to flat Tundra tiles now
Goddess of Fire Pantheon Faith from volcanic soil and geothermals doubled to +4
Lady of the reeds and marshes works on all floodplains and also on marsh wonders
Sacred Path also gives +1 adjacency to woods, as well as rainforests
Initiation Rites now gives 25% of a land military unit's production value in faith when produced
Fertility Rites now gives +1 food on cattle, sheep, wheat and rice, in addition to the free builder
Religious Idols gets +3 Faith instead of +2
Monument to the Gods now affects Wonders of any era
Stone Circles gets +3 faith instead of +2 from Quarries
God of War gives +1 Great Person Points to Harbors, Encampments, and Commericals
Governors, Governments, and Golden Ages
Victor's Garrison Commander gives +3 combat instead of +5
Magnus' Surplus Logistics promotion now gives +2 Production
Foreign Ministry (tier 2 gov building) now gives 2 envoys and 2 extra influence per turn
Communism's Collectivization card now gives +2 Production for domestic trade routes
Warlord's Throne gives +25% production towards naval and land military units, -1 unit maintenance cost, and +15 to strategic resource stockpiles
Audience chamber gives +3 food and +3 housing for cities with a governor
Pen, Brush, and Voice Golden Age gives +2 culture and +1 gold per district
Culture Victory
Moon landing only gives 5x Science as Culture instead of 10x
Computers and Environmentalism give +50% tourism boost instead of +25%
Tourism from wonders increase to 5
Books are now 4 culture and 2 tourism instead of 2 and 2
Art is now 4 culture and 4 tourism instead of 3 and 2
Artifacts are now 6 culture and 6 tourism instead of 3 and 3
Music gives 12 culture and 8 tourism instead of 4 and 4
Relics give 4 tourism instead of 8
150 tourism required to gain one foreign tourist (instead of 200)
No tourism penalty for being in democracy or digital democracy (used to be 20)
Tourism penalties for other tier 3 and 4 governments absorb the 20 from democracy to equal out if someone catches you in government tier... so they are 40 instead of 20 now
Miscellaneous
Score from converting cities reduced from 2 to 1
Score for cities reduced from 5 to 2
Score for population increased from 1 to 2
Era score will no longer count towards actual game score
Oil can now spawn on flat plains, as well as all floodplains
Walls are now halfway between R&F and GS values (75, 75, 75, 300) (100 for Georgia's Tsikhe walls)
Incense +1 food
Retinues and force modernization policy cards allow for producing units for half resources cost instead of only working on upgrades
Minimum favor from grievances is now 0 instead of -10
Can improve offshore Oil at Refining Tech (when Oil is revealed)
Trade routes pass along 3 religious spread for send sending and destination cities instead of 1 and 0.5
Citizen specialists now give +1 main yield (ex. +1 science for campus specialist)
Nan Madol suzerain bonus only applies to special districts now
Limes policy card now provides +100% production to Siege Units and does not expire
Fishing boats give +1 production
Bugs/Exploits
Ranged units' promotion, Arrow Storm, no longer works on defense
Siege units' promotions, Grape Shot and Shrapnel, no longer works on defense
Can declare war on a city-state on the same turn an opposing Amani is removed instead of having to wait 10 turns
Artwork from the same artist give their standard culture and tourism yields instead of 1 culture and 1 tourism
Fascism combat bonus works on both offense and defense
Policy card exploit fixed
Pantheon exploit fixed
Priority targeting button removed from aircraft
I get the sense that the Civplayers community plays a lot of their games at online speed since some of the fixes specifically mention that speed. However, it would be interesting to try this out at Standard Speed, if only to see how things are balanced and perhaps as the start point for a later, new, balance mod for this community.
Quickspeed? You might as well make our own mod. For example I highly suspect Hungry would be OP still for us, probably not for CPs because the CS-governor synergy with Hungry is less good. You guys should probably just play on quickspeed because games struggle to finish anyway.
Has the RB Balance mod been tested since the last patch? Curious, since it has DotF at +5 CS, but that was changed in base game. I would hate to start a game with a mod that breaks the game down the road because of other changes.
It's an assumption that they're targeting quick speed. I haven't checked out their Discord to see if their games are all at that speed.
As it was suggested in my thread, if there was going to be a RB balance mod we'd need to start somewhere (and at some point in time) and since this one already exists and is in wide use it might be worth a shot.
(May 3rd, 2020, 12:26)MJW (ya that one) Wrote: Quickspeed? You might as well make our own mod. For example I highly suspect Hungry would be OP still for us, probably not for CPs because the CS-governor synergy with Hungry is less good. You guys should probably just play on quickspeed because games struggle to finish anyway.
I kinda agree. Quick speed would probably prevent the loss of impetus in our games atm.
I dislike quick speed and using the RB Mod (not in the mood for testing, it’s based on older versions of the game, Etc.). Now that I read a bit more about, even BBG doesn’t look like a good fit, since it is made for online play. Perhaps base game with bans is better.
As an alternative, maybe we could each come up with a list of the 12 worst civilizations/leaders in the game and then pick a pool of 12 civilizations/leaders based on how many times they show up on everybody's list. Then each get a random selection of 3 to chose from (or if we get a fifth player, go with 10 or 15). My thought process is that if we each take a "bad" civilization, it would be more balanced because we are all handicapped and nobody has an OP civilization. This might be a little more complex than straight up banning the OP civs but it might also be fun to see some of the less played civilizations in a MP game.
(May 3rd, 2020, 14:42)Woden Wrote: Fine with base game and bans.
As an alternative, maybe we could each come up with a list of the 12 worst civilizations/leaders in the game and then pick a pool of 12 civilizations/leaders based on how many times they show up on everybody's list. Then each get a random selection of 3 to chose from (or if we get a fifth player, go with 10 or 15). My thought process is that if we each take a "bad" civilization, it would be more balanced because we are all handicapped and nobody has an OP civilization. This might be a little more complex than straight up banning the OP civs but it might also be fun to see some of the less played civilizations in a MP game.
This pick method sounds very intriguing. I'd be up for it.
