CIV VI PBEM

[suboptimal]

I do not think Macedonia has any takers, maybe I am wrong there. I do think that their predictability is an issue.
Woden, on France I do not think Catherine is as bad, thanks to the +3 CS she has thanks to spying.

We do have a consensus on 9 civs atm. With 1 more we can have a choice of 2 for 5 players, or with 3 more, a choice of 3 for 4 players.

Macedonia is a one trick pony, but is really good at that trick and that trick happens to be war. Don't really like the possibility of seeing them in a game of the worst civs. 

I could be wrong about France, I don't really use spies that much. I would say they are not the worst civ but lower tier than many others.

Catherine gets the +3 CS for diplomatic visibility from the start of the game as her leader ability.  This bonus isn't triggered by having or using spies.

[Woden]

I'll need to get up to speed on Civ 6 mapmaking I haven't used Worldbuilder since it was officially released. Woden, I think you've mentioned in the past that modifying a randomly-generated map breaks the rivers or floodplains?

Yes, modifying rivers in a randomly generated map tends to break the flooding of rivers. I think just adding rivers and floodplains might work but don't remember. It is easy to tell, because the chance for floods in the climate screen will be 0% if they are broken.  

The past few maps that I have created were "recreations" of maps. I would find a map I liked and then create a custom map from scratch. The tools can place luxuries randomly, so it really doesn't take that long to build a map form scratch.

The flooding issue was fixed between the starts for PBEM 15 and 17, I believe in the September 2019 update.  It's not perfect but I recall they addressed it.

May need to test it again. I seem to remember looking into it when making PBEM16's map and it still not working but not sure the timing of it all.

Edit: Regardless, I will update the mapmaking thread with how to create a save with a revised map. There are a few things you have to make sure to do to get everything to work right. A little busy today and tomorrow but will put it together Wednesday night or Thursday.

[Ichabod]

How about we ask a lurker/group of lurkers to help with the 12-Civ list?

I'm eager to start the game and wouldn't mind a random map, perhaps with a lurker check to see if someone spawned in tundra or something blatantly unbalanced. If you all prefer a more balanced map, that's ok, but I don't mind just playing the hand we get.

Any other bans we need to consider? I'm mostly thinking about the settler pantheon. That is completely broken, or am I not seeing something?

[MJW (ya that one)]

My banned list with the civs that will get deselected anyway removed

Bans:

- Venetian Arsenal (no more overflow tricks but 2x ship production is broken on everything other than Pangea and it doesn't make sense to unban them for just that)
- Maori (mess up map generation, expect for a land-only map, and doesn't make sense to unban them for that)
- Religious Settlements Pantheon
- Nan Madol (should be +1 culture so this is just another 2x problem like Scythia and VA)
- No pillaging CS except for farms and fishing boats. (pillage-farming. no science but can get insane gold).

[MJW (ya that one)]

Oh, and of course city-gifting, even though it's kind of implicit in a no diplo game.

Edit: Civs so this is a complete banned list

Hungry and Scythia, OP
Australia (implicit collusion)
Sumer, on a random map. If you can start within 6 tiles the warcart is too much for the game to handle.

[suboptimal]

How about we ask a lurker/group of lurkers to help with the 12-Civ list?

I'm eager to start the game and wouldn't mind a random map, perhaps with a lurker check to see if someone spawned in tundra or something blatantly unbalanced. If you all prefer a more balanced map, that's ok, but I don't mind just playing the hand we get.

Any other bans we need to consider? I'm mostly thinking about the settler pantheon. That is completely broken, or am I not seeing something?

MJW's list covered the "usual" suspects on the ban list. 

Regarding random maps, we tried that in the first PBEM 14 start and, well, that didn't go well at all.  At a minimum the map is going to need a look-see, if only to make sure that everyone is on equal footing and the classical strategic resources are accessible.

[Woden]

Bans:
-Settler pantheon
-Venetian Arsenal (not a big deal on Pangaea map but still OP
-Nan Madol (too much free culture, even on Pangaea map)
-No pillage farming of city states (if you pillage, you must conquer). Don't care if we stick with just health pillaging, just don't want the pillage, let them heal, pillage again gameplay.
-Civ ban list doesn't matter since we are selecting from the 12 worst civs

As for random maps, I am with suboptimal. I am not down with playing 20 or so turns and have someone quit because they don't have iron. I, personally don't care because I like challenges but I don't like playing games that end because people quit. It am down for a minimally edited map, just make sure everybody has access to at least 1 copy of strategic resources.

We still need to discuss if we want 5 players or go with 4. Ioan76 offered to join and be the fifth player. I would prefer 5 players over 4 but will go with whatever.

[TheArchduke]

Fine with 5.

List looks good.

[suboptimal]

I'm fine with five as well. However, if we do go to 5 players do we expand the civ list to 15 (from 12) or pare it down to 10? If Ioan76 joins he should also probably provide his bottom 12 selection to add to ours...it might help flesh out the list.

Also, do we want to start discussing map parameters beyond "pangea"? I assume a small map with 5 players, but what about environmental and disaster settings?

[Cornflakes]

If you lock in the number of players I can at least get started rolling some potential maps. I'll start a hotseat after editing, hopefully the floodplains work. If not I'll take screenshots and rebuild the map.