[49 spoilers] Miguelito, pindicator and Adrien take Shiva by the hands

[pindicator]

This is out of left field, but if you don't think you're able to hold the island, what about a different target that you don't have to hold? What about razing his capital by sea?

[Miguelito]

I've thought about it. Razing his cap is actually what is necessary to hold the island. The question is if I want to hold on to Mahadeva and my cap while doing so. If yes, I have to kill his stack on defense first. Right now in the GA those cities are too good to lose them. After that we'll see.

Fighting Commodore seems increasingly pointless. Even if I somehow could get Gangadhara back it would be meaningless. (Though losing gold AND gems on the same turn was a hard hit, and three reason why my cap is unhappy now)
If I can't hit his stack this or the next turn I'll offer peace.

[Miguelito]

Commodore (who also found a place to found a new city this turn) concentrated his stack SW of Gangadhara, apparently aiming to press in the south towards Ajita.
I'd totally destroy that stack with catapults, but if he goes for Ajita without forking Mahadeva I can't attack from the galleys, so he'll see them with his scout chariot, and won't expose himself. 
Then there's Cairo, who is moving up his one movers towards Mahadeva and can have them on the jungle tile 2N of the city next turn, together with an unknown number of horse archers. The CR2 swords are still trailing, but I'd rather not fight both stacks at the same time.

I offered peace to Commodore. He should know that he can't really break through with his stack, and he offered peace before, so I hope he takes it.

Offered 3 gpt to Cornflakes for dyes, no idea how to price that, but he should have an interest in keeping me afloat a bit, as he's fighting Comm.

Inner Fintouristia:


I feel this is far better than what I had (imagine all the forests that must've been there!), but I accept that he's at some risk of getting boxed in (don't know yet where his northern neighbour started, I suppose that was Elkad?)

Cairo's cap garrison (well the visible part):


How much would you bring? I need some spears for horse archers / Immortals (I'll take the promoted ones), like, 3? 4? then 3, better 4 catapults. Rest axes - 6? better 8? Building galleys. It'll likely have to be just one wave, as with logistics it's complicated to get the second wave onto the ships after the first unloaded (and still have some momentum).


Btw how do you promote cats for field combat? For city attack I'd always take CR, correct?

[Miguelito]

He had already moved his stack back. I took it - he'll be back for more, and I will be in a worse position to stop him, but before that happens I hope to get some work done:
In other nice diplo news, Cornflakes took my 3gpt offer for his dyes, so we can work yet another hammer tile at the capital.



Fireworks hopefully next turn. I was feeling smart about hiding those axes south of the river, but then noticed that he has that sentry Immortal and has already seen them, so I moved back into the city, as now hiding would tip him off that there's something fishy. I just hope he still moves in.

Fintourist reminding me that elephants are a thing (and in this mod we don't even need to keep the ivory):


Switched tech to HBR. As an aspiring pirate, why would I need Currency? The idea is to get all the currency from others, right?

This could be Elkad's former capital?

[Miguelito]

Cairo is biding his time and moving up his 4 CR2 swords and another HA, so will advance only in 2 more turns - I hope so at least, because I misclicked a stack of 5 axes and moved them out of position, which I can recover only next turn.
Decided not to ask for a reload as FT was logged in as well (logged out right after that) and would have had to replay, and he's in a war.
I hope that Cairo assumes I'm trying stupidly to set him a trap and hiding those axes one tile behind, so he acts as if they were still there. If he moves up this turn I'm not necessarily toast, but not in a good spot either.

Nobody here reminded me that elephants need iron ! I'm still going to keep researching HBR; Commodore and Ruff have a spare one and may sell it; Cornflakes also has one on the border with FT which isn't mined yet.

edit: found a way to make this look a lot less strange by moving 4 axes I had in the backlines into the city. Still, if he moves up this turn I don't have enough hitters for his stack. But I suppose he's waiting for his other units anyways.

[Miguelito]

oh, and to repeat my question: How should I promote catapults in open field battle (just 1 promo available)?

[Miguelito]

new turn.
Out of boredom I sent the 3 move trireme around and confirmed that Cairo's on a rather tiny peninsula. So he got boxed in by Commodore early and tried to punish me for it (not enitrely unreasonably). I still think he should at least have settled the other island before attacking us.

Cairo hasn't moved; he keeps camping that jungle tile (and paying foreign maintenance for it). He also offered peace, does he want to attack Commodore, who is whipping considerably and still at war with CF (I think, I have to admit I haven't checked thoroughly)? But he has to know that then I'd backstab him 5 turns later, sure as anything.
If he just stays on that tile adding units to the stack I don't know what I'll do. Atm I'm 1 turning units thanks to the GA, which will end in 3t though.

[pindicator]

Nobody here reminded me that elephants need iron ! I'm still going to keep researching HBR; Commodore and Ruff have a spare one and may sell it; Cornflakes also has one on the border with FT which isn't mined yet.

Elephants need iron? When did RtR make that change?

Do you think peace will give you a better opportunity for revenge later on? Also- what are your goals for this game going forward? Live as long as possible? Revenge upon Cairo? Nuke the map and cause global warming to get revenge upon the map itself?

[Miguelito]

Nobody here reminded me that elephants need iron ! I'm still going to keep researching HBR; Commodore and Ruff have a spare one and may sell it; Cornflakes also has one on the border with FT which isn't mined yet.

Elephants need iron?  When did RtR make that change?

Do you think peace will give you a better opportunity for revenge later on?  Also- what are your goals for this game going forward?  Live as long as possible?  Revenge upon Cairo?  Nuke the map and cause global warming to get revenge upon the map itself?

Oh, elephants shouldn't need iron? Now I feel less stupid, thanks

Atm with Cairo we're in a stalemate. He has a giant stack that binds all my forces. If he moved into my land I could try to squash it with cats, but he moved home. I offered him peace this turn, after coming back with my galley so it wouldn't get trapped on a neutral coast tile to his east. If I'm really lucky, he makes a move on Commodore (or he retreated because Comm is coming for him). If not, he cooks up plans for another invasion. He should not have construction yet, and he hasn't seen my cats, so I have some hope to be able to defend.
News from this turn: I have research visibility on him now, and it's showing Machinery, meaning he has MC and I can expect triremes of his very soon. That will likely give him a path to landing units near my cap, but I should still be able to avoid him boating directly or unloading right next to the cap, so I should maintain the ability to defend.

As to what my objective in the game is:
1 - outlast superdeath (who is at 2 cities but got both FT and Ruff to sign peace, no idea how he dealt with FT's murder stack)
2 - hide on an island. For Nilakantha (my former island city) to be able to defend Cairo's capital needs to burn. I'm increasingly feeling that I'll have to bank on Commodore for that to happen. A very audacious, and fun, move would be to sail straight past Nilakantha and take Ruff's island instead. I'll be able to scout it next turn.

But erstwhile I'm looking for some more trouble:


Peace is running out and Commodore is making an offer that I can't refuse. With the peak I have vision on his supply lines, and he has nothing in range, not even an HA can reach the city immediately. Of course, he has nearly double my power, so if he wants to he can get it back. But there's a reason for him moving his stack away, and I hope that is more important to him than a 1 pop city which is at FT's mercy anyways. Actually, I have a suspicion that FT making war with superdeath may be motivated by a major conflict brewing between the large powers. If he comes back at me with a small stack the cats might see some action, but probably I'll just retreat when I see him coming.
If I take the city, will I get a revolt, or will the borders pop back right away?

HBR is finishing this turn. Likely the last tech I'll research in this game, I'm saving 4 gpt at 0% (unit cost 27). I sent 3 gpt for iron to Ruff, and goodwill and flowers for iron to both FT and Cornflakes, let's see if one of them bite. Btw if I were Comm I'd give a spare iron to superdeath. 

Here's Cairoland:



Yes, this is far stronger than my surroundings (remember, there used to be forests, not jungle). But I concede that it's very easy to get boxed in here. Apparently Commodore founded his second city without copper, maybe he could have done something there (though I'd guess Comm wouldn't play entirely recklessly)?
Or he could have founded the third city 2N of where he did (S of the sheep) oops no that's illegal with his 2nd city spot, but maybe then that one should've gone 1NE?, and maybe pull a Miguelito and build stonehenge there? He had strong production early on, so he may have fared better (and Comm's city would have been swamped immediately, and much earlier than my Oracle did that).
But apparently he decided to focus on me, either because you rather fight the newbie than the commodore (fair enough), or because he decided from the start that the naval situation was unsustainable and he needed to get rid of my cap if he wanted to live.
He's had two opportunities where he could have achieved that: First during the (long) Commodore war; had he attacked Mahadeva or sent 2 galleys for the cap I'd have been in huge trouble. I think that was a typical case of Cairo waiting too long for the opportunity to be perfect and it then dematerialising. The other one was when he brought that giant Immortal stack, which he moved east of Mahadeva, forking the capital. Had he unloaded the swords at the cap on that turn - which he was able to do from the fog - I think it's very likely I would've lost the cap, and then I wouldn't have held the island either.

[Charriu]

Nobody here reminded me that elephants need iron ! I'm still going to keep researching HBR; Commodore and Ruff have a spare one and may sell it; Cornflakes also has one on the border with FT which isn't mined yet.

Elephants need iron?  When did RtR make that change?

Do you think peace will give you a better opportunity for revenge later on?  Also- what are your goals for this game going forward?  Live as long as possible?  Revenge upon Cairo?  Nuke the map and cause global warming to get revenge upon the map itself?

Oh, elephants shouldn't need iron? Now I feel less stupid, thanks

Elephants only require iron in RtR. Krill did that change in one of the later versions of RtR. First time I find it is in 4.1.1.6, but could be a bit earlier. If remember correctly he also explained why, but I don't find his post anymore.