[SPOILERS] Cornflakes PB53

[Cornflakes]

Things to consider with Advanced Start:

• Hammers/Commerce are valued 1:1 with with starting budget, food less (33 gold/pop). After game start food > hammers > commerce. Therefore tech purchases would seem to be the least efficient way to spend the starting budget ... except that tech is required for the worker to build improvements and usually there is 12 turns to research the first tech while the worker is building, then another 5 to research the 2nd tech while the worker is improving the first food resource.
  
• I really REALLY want a grain start so as not to spend half of the discretionary budget purchasing Animal Husbandry in order for the purchased worker to improve the food.
  
• Starting techs aren't as important since necessary food tech can be insta-purchased. Expensive starting techs are free budget money compared to cheaper starting techs ... as long as they are desired near term anyway.
  
• Religion could be founded by purchasing Polytheism or Meditation ... at the risk of someone else trying the same and losing a coinflip 
  
• Only 2 units can be purchased for each city. If 2 cities then worker + scout + warrior? ... if terrain has only one good city site then a couple pop could be purchased with improvements for them to work.
  
• What does a purchased worker do? Improve the food, then chop. But depending on starting techs the entire budget may get blown on worker techs. Maybe instead purchase improvements and a couple pop directly and still build a worker while teching?
  
• Is granary purchase worthwhile? Would require Wheel + Agriculture + Pottery which is basically all the discretionary budget. But this gets the snowball rolling.
  

Further note on Serfdom - Boosted farms make riverside cottages less appealing. Representation GPP are therefore more appealing. I'm definitely locking in PHI and gunning for Pyramids. I'm still contemplating alternative trait pairings other than IND (I rolled 4 choices ) but IND has a couple additional hidden buffs in CTH [same as RtR]: (1) much cheaper Metal Casting means IND forges are easier to unlock, and (2) reduced Marble/Stone boost increases relative IND boost. On a tight map IND also has additional value because once the land runs out, expansion has to go vertical.

Why not Lincoln (CHA/PHI) when I favored him so strongly in PB50? Primarily because I think CHA is a tier above the rest of the traits thanks to Colosseum XP: 2-promo units of all types easy in the early mid-game, and 3-promo mounted with Vassalage. That +1XP combined with the CHA discount puts both over the break point. Here in CTH the Colosseum doesn't provide XP and I think that CHA is back in line with the rest of the traits.

Current civ thoughts, considering IND/PHI trait combo which I've basically locked in: 

• India - take Polytheism to start? Fast workers want lots of flatland forests to chop early. Highest tech-cost combo, and gets Myst +1 commerce on palace from T0. Downside is without agriculture resource the budget probably can't afford Polytheism. Actually Polytheism probably isn't the best use of budget. Why risk coinflipping someone for the religion when I can just get started teching towards a religion of my choice T1, after it's revealed whether any religions were taken at the start.
  
• Russia - Play the long game. Feudalism beeline is also on the path to Paper > Education which could be bulbed efficiently with GScientists, for PHI-boosted University UB. Free 9 beakers per turn with Representation + Library + University. Also quickly unlock and build Oxford. But will the game be competitive this long?
  
• Zulu - Put some deterrence behind my wonder-grabbing leader ... psychological deterrence if nothing else. I played Zulu in my first ever pitboss (PB9) so there's some nostalgic value as well. Actually I could take that same combo since I rolled Huayna Capac as well.
  
• Babylon - I just played a superior version of Babylon (twice ). Only thing going for Babylon here is the city acting as a source of fresh water boosts Serfdom farms in territory without rivers. Otherwise need Civil Service to spread farms.
  
• Dutch - No change from base. Levee is late. East Indiaman could be PHI-bulbed early-ish. Would that be decisive? Probably not.
  

Overall no strong leaning with the civ. I'll wait to see the terrain and then evaluate in perspective of food available, number of forests, and starting tech ... and also whether I want to start with 1 more improved city or 2 cities.

[Cornflakes]

Thanks for the bug report. Should you choose Babylon I will provide an update before the game starts.

EDIT: This means trust the changelog with Babylon.

It occurred to me that the Alt+tab blank screen issue may be related to the mod update feature that Ramk added. Maybe disable that feature if Civilopedia is open?

[Cornflakes]

Some may say IND/PHI is boring due to the obvious Metal Casting + Pyramids beeline. Personally I don’t think I have ever built Pyramids because I just could never see myself spending 500 hammers on it vs. other shiny things (or settlers), and when playing vs. AI I never really thought about bulbs. Even as IND with stone in PB43 I never seriously considered building Pyramids. I’m looking forward to trying a new game plan.

After further consideration I think using the IND-boosted forge GE for Pyramids is better than slow building. I can instead use the hammers for expansion, Oracle, Colossus, or military as the situation calls. Possibly Great Library, which would be amazing with PHI + Representation. Can’t wait to see the start and begin planning how to spend the starting budget! I’m strongly leaning towards Zulu currently purely for the defensive value and deterrence to ward off greedy neighbors.

[superdeath]

[Charriu]

Couple of bugs (screenshots in spoiler):
• While viewing Civilopedia (accessed from the main menu), using windowed mode ... Alt+tab out and then back into Civ results in a blank screen [not totally blank, but just the background window]. Hitting ESC key returns to main menu, and civilopedia can be re-entered. But double Alt+tab again brings up a blank screen. Tough for copying data into forum post   ... Update, clicking the window out of focus to the browser also results in same blank screen.

Ramk provided me with a fix for this and it will be included in the next version.

[Cornflakes]

Thanks for the map and screenshot! Is the rice supposed to be forested?

Tech situation for food is terrible. I need all of fishing, hunting, animal husbandry, agriculture + bronze working, and calendar in order to improve all the food   

There are TONS of green riverside tiles in view! Not many hills though for production to build wonders. The whip will feature heavily given all that grassland and few hills. Also not much happiness. I was really hoping for metal happy to double with my early IND forges. 

I’m also concerned about orphaning seafood resources with my cities since I can’t see any seafood now but have lots or coast visible.

[Cornflakes]

Surprisingly the forested rice seems to be an advantage in this advanced start setup. I can make up the slower farming with the hammers from the chop, and delay the farm while still working a 4-yield tile.

Still trying to figure out the best way to balance the budget with tech vs. growth.

[Cornflakes]

Tech costs for reference

Fishing - 68
Wheel - 82
Agriculture - 55
Hunting - 55
Mysticism - 82
Mining - 68
Pottery - 111
AH - 138
BW - 165
Meditation - 110
Polytheism - 138

Palace 8 cpt (+1 @ Mysticism)

[Cornflakes]

Map script is revealed to be Wheel. I rolled a few test maps and ended up with nearly identical layouts. Each player starts on a little blob, connected by narrow spokes with neighbors in two directions and the center. This will result in a more symmetrical game similar to PB43, where it will be harder for players to gain an advantage and therefore more likely to run competitive into the later eras. Also defense will be easier due to choke points along the land bridges, and flanking the choke points via sea will likely be essential to successful warfare.

Thinking further about the advanced start budget:

• 2 cities connected by river trade routes would be ideal from a commerce perspective (2x 100 cost). 
  
• Purchase of 2nd pop fills the food box halfway to the next pop which seems very efficient (2x 33 cost). 
  
• Worker seems mandatory (60 cost). 
  
• That’s 326/500 leaving 174 discretionary. 
  
• If I don’t settle on the lake it would require fishing (68) + border pop (25) + fish nets (30) = 123. Nearly all of discretionary budget
  
• Bronze Working to unlock the whip will massively accelerate the grow curve. Pottery for granaries would like to follow ASAP afterwards.
  
• Animal Husbandry, although required for the cows, seems to slow things down too much when I try to squeeze it in. Potentially I may delay AH until after Metal Casting 
  
• Barb spawning isn't affected by the Advanced Start. Animals still appear T5, real barbs T25. With 10 turns universal peace there is also
  
• Hunting/Mining seems to give me the fasted Advanced Start, however Russian doesn't do anything for ages. I can get a slightly slower start out of India while greatly easing the worker micro and lining up chops into key wonders. 
  

Here's my current leaning, considering IND/PHI + India ... spending the starting budget on:

• 2 cities (200)
  
• 1 pop (33)
  
• Fishing (68) + Hunting (55)
  
• Border pop (25)
  
• Fish nets (30) + Deer camp (24) + ivory camp (24) + ivory camp (24)
  
• Scout (15)
  

This is not locked in. I'll try to lock in later tonight. The 10-hammer cost increase for the fast worker is hurting here because I'm coming up slightly short on budget, or working unimproved tiles. Slight chance that I change to Russia still.

[Cornflakes]

The other option I’m considering is Zulu. Purchase Mining instead of Hunting, costs 13 more so only 1 ivory camp. As I think about it more I like this better. I can shift one ivory to 2nd ring of the capital, purchase the border pop at 2nd city, and then pick up the 2nd ivory with border pop at the capital. Important have much utility in barb busting and flexible defenders.

Critical timing I see as hitting Bronze Working ASAP with both cities at 4 pop so I can 2-whip 2 workers. Either combo can make that timeframe.