[SPOILERS] scooter's PB53

[scooter]

Let's explain my approach to this Advanced Start first. To keep you from having to scroll, here's my original screenshot:





One of the things I noticed quickly was this river and how easily it connects cities. This was a big part of why I locked in Protective, which naturally meant Wang Kon because Financial seemed great here too. My thinking was that more cities were best here, even if it meant for some awkward worker micro. I created a rough sandbox for myself, and I went about testing some starts. This wasn't exactly hardcore testing. I would just play 40ish turns very quickly and casually and count up the stuff I had at the end. I made that post originally about how the 5 cities plan was awful, but that was before I played it out. In reality, I discovered it actually was one of the best openings, but the slow early tech pace made it really awkward and inflexible. It also required planting an east city that was kind of trash without knowing what's in the fog, and therefore it contributed nothing to the snowball except being a drag on finances, and it was more worker turns (and needed Wheel, which took forever) in order to connect it to the capital and benefit from the trade routes.


So I went about testing a bunch of plans. I tried some where I bought techs, and these were mostly bad. I tried one where I started in Slavery on T0 by purchasing Bronze Working, and this was actually terrible. I tried one where I bought just 2 cities and invested the rest in pop, workers, and Hunting, and it was pretty good, but not quite the best.






The one I kept coming back to was not this 5-city start, but one in which I removed the eastern city of Nanjing, and spent the 100g it saved on a work boat + worker, and banked the 10g for teching Fishing. The work boat sits idle for 3-4T, but it's still worth it because it's difficult to build one up there. It was by far the best plan, and I could get a 5th city, 2 additional settlers, 5 granaries, a Monument, and a whole bunch of cottages (along with sufficient military) by T37-40ish, and that's without being particularly careful. We have a winner right? I tried some variations with population points due to the fact that buying them fills the foodbox halfway, but it didn't quite work out for me. I was very committed to this 4 city plan. Until today when I logged in.


Turn 0





There's a fish! This changes a lot. In all of my test runs, I waited a long time for Mysticism, so I never popped the borders in this city. I can't afford to wait 30+ turns to unlock a 5/0/3 tile, when one of the pain points was passing the corn back and forth between the first two cities. Paying for culture is just 25g, so it's not bad, but in my 4 city scenario it would require skipping the WB or something else, so it was back to the drawing board. Plus, I'd want a second WB in this scenario probably. I didn't get a screenshot of it, but upon settling my northern coastal city, I found another surprise in the fog. All in all, this meant I pivoted pretty drastically.





A sheep! I bought a culture pop up here too, which sucked, but I felt I had to. All in all, I ended up purchasing 3 cities, 2 work boats, 1 farm, 1 population point, and a warrior. Guangzhou struggled to get going a bit for me as a city and had limited snowball impact, but the sheep changes that drastically. I briefly considered skipping the warrior and using the gold to speed early tech, but I need the warrior too much given that I also planned to start with a triple worker opening.






And here's how we look on T0. I think I can get Fishing in 3T rather than 4T with some micro. This turn, Guangzhou misses on the 2c trade routes because it's not connected upon planting, but next turn it'll pick it up. It's worth it, because as soon as I get that, I'll have two fishing nets, and then I'll really be off.





Nobody bought a third population point yet.






This is after myself, Commodore, Cornflakes, and AutomatedTeller have played. I'll try to discern other people's starts a bit more later. I'm a bit confused because Commodore's point changes on PBSpy are a bit nonsensical, but I think he and I bought 3 cities, while the other two players bought 2 and got pop instead.


Oh yeah, one more crucial piece of info - commerce gained above replacement for T0. I'll try to keep the running tabulation.

FIN: 0
PRO: 3

[Charriu]

Uh I like the FIN/PRO counter. Great report.

[scooter]

Here's a mechanics question. When do trade routes get calculated or recalculated in a pitboss? You'll notice in my screenshot above I'm getting 18bpt, and I made the note about Guangzhou not getting its trade route, and that once it did (presumably next turn), that would increase to 20. I realized after writing that up that I was pretty sure I would come up 1 beaker short of 3T Fishing this way, so I logged in with the intent to work the dye for 1T at Guangzhou.


Imagine my surprise when I discovered I was now getting 20b because now Guangzhou had its trade route. The only thing that's changed is Cairo has since logged in and played, but we're still on T0. This made me wonder if trade routes get recalculated after someone ends turn or something? But if that was the case, why didn't I get it after I hit end turn?

[Charriu]

I think this is a one time effect from Advanded start. Notice how in your tests the city on the Guangzhou plot does not have a trade symbol. But as soon as you got the border pop in there, there is now a trade connection. I would guess that some actions during Advanded start trigger a recalculation.

Normally the behavior is like this.

If all conditions for a trade route are met when founding, then placing a new city will grant this city immediate trade routes. So if you build a road and the settle you get trade route.

Now if the conditions are not met when founding, the new city will not get a trade route even when you establish trade routes after the founding in the same turn. So in aboves example. If you first settle the city and then build the connecting road, you don't get trade income immediately.

TL:DR always build roads before settling.

[Ramkhamhaeng]

Recalculation of all trade networks after a city is found.

[Charriu]

Wait. Does that mean that if I do the following:

1. Found a city
2. Connect it to a road (no trade commerce)
3. Another player settles a city in the same turn

I do get the trade commerce in this turn, right?

[Ramkhamhaeng]

Wait. Does that mean that if I do the following:

1. Found a city
2. Connect it to a road (no trade commerce)
3. Another player settles a city in the same turn

I do get the trade commerce in this turn, right?

Yup.

[Charriu]

This game still amazes me after 16 years.

[scooter]

Interesting. So it was important to not be last to play! So important that it's going to net me 4 food and 4 commerce 3T from now. Yeah, in my tests (in which I wasn't buying the culture pop) it would pick up the trade route once the capital borders popped. I was just surprised to see the trade recalculation happen mid-turn, which I've never noticed before. Or maybe I have, and it's been awhile so I forgot.

[Charriu]

Well it's a pretty rare case that only happens when two players found a city in the same turn.