Caster of Magic II Spell System overhaul discussion

[Seravy]

Another attempt to fill the common or uncommon slot for Death :

Reaper's Favor
Cost : 13
Target normal unit must save at -1 or die. If it died, your remaining casting skill for the combat does not decrease as a result of casting this spell and you can cast another spell this turn that isn't Reaper's Favor.

Basically, a true save-or die spell with no strings attached, that really does nothing except killing a target unit. (Surprisingly Death has none of those until Very Rare)
It has to be designed in a way that it's worth choosing over Possession, and the only possible reason for that can be the cost. If killing two or more units with the new spell can be done for the same or less cost than Possession could do (by converting the unit and making it suicide into enemies, killing them as well in the process) then it's a viable alternative.
Targeting only normal units retains Death's "convert your units to fantastic and you're mostly safe from their spells" theme while also leaves Black Sleep useful when a summon has to be targeted.

[ksasaki]

Another attempt to fill the common or uncommon slot for Death :

Reaper's Favor
Cost : 13
Target normal unit must save at -1 or die. If it died, your remaining casting skill for the combat does not decrease as a result of casting this spell and you can cast another spell this turn that isn't Reaper's Favor.

Basically, a true save-or die spell with no strings attached, that really does nothing except killing a target unit. (Surprisingly Death has none of those until Very Rare)
It has to be designed in a way that it's worth choosing over Possession, and the only possible reason for that can be the cost. If killing two or more units with the new spell can be done for the same or less cost than Possession could do (by converting the unit and making it suicide into enemies, killing them as well in the process) then it's a viable alternative.
Targeting only normal units retains Death's "convert your units to fantastic and you're mostly safe from their spells" theme while also leaves Black Sleep useful when a summon has to be targeted.

The description is a bit confusing, does it mean we cannot cast Reaper's favor anymore on this turn, or rather we can no longer use the 13 used earlier for reaper's favor to cast reaper's favor again?  Also, the description gives me the impression that you can only cast EXACTLY one more spell this turn after Reaper's favor was cast.

As far as the spell itself, I think it's a decent spell with a reasonable effect, but hard to analyze until the details above are clarified.

[Seravy]

The description is a bit confusing, does it mean we cannot cast Reaper's favor anymore on this turn, or rather we can no longer use the 13 used earlier for reaper's favor to cast reaper's favor again? Also, the description gives me the impression that you can only cast EXACTLY one more spell this turn after Reaper's favor was cast.

I don't understand the question. You can only cast one combat spell each turn. There are no other ways to increase that, so you can cast "exactly" one more spell, as it cannot be Reaper's Favor to increase it again.

(spells cast by heroes or other units are not spells cast by "you" and aren't affected by that part of the effect)

[htester]

The spells we currently are considering or already added on CoM II can be classified as it follows:

1. Spliting spells with unrelated or too many effects/ moving spell from current tiers
2. Trying to come up with "help" spells (They might give you resources, small advantages and can be justified as "ok that could be here")
3. Stuff that you actually cast and win the game/ at least kill 1 wizard on the tier

Type 1 and 2 of spells have mostly already been added. Now for type 3 the real challenge is that you need to design a pack of spells. If you design something better than it already exists it breaks the game (which is fixable as all rare/ very rare tiers have slots open in all realms). On type 3 we couldn't add almost anything (honorable mention to mass flight) not even Vampires yet. On my opinion only 18, 23, 31 and maybe 15 (for uncommon tier) could be considered really game changers. That being said it's important to design more type 3 spells for rare tier (to at least allow vampire's to be implemented and maybe other summons/ entirely new strategies).

[Seravy]

Well, if we want game changers, here is a long shot...

Reaper
1 figure
Missile Immunity, usual Death Immunities.
Death Touch -10
Melee only, probably 4 moves and walking but noncorporeal.
HP, defense depending on tier.


Currently there are no creatures in Death that have Death Touch and honestly, adding it to Death Knights seems like a horrible idea.
Death Demons used to have it but they likely are going to disappear, as they were a workaround to a different problem.

Problem :
-We don't need more Death creatures if we manage to add Vampires.
-Not AI friendly
-Hard counters many other very rare creatures.
(not even Great Drakes with their 16 resistance would be safe from it)
-We could try lower save modifier and make it rare but then we have Night Stalker for the same role already.

So overall it doesn't seem to be a working idea unfortunately.

I definitely classify "M." a tier 3 "new" spell although it's new in effect only, as it replaces an existing (but weak and uninteresting) spell.
...although if Life loses Holy Arms that might actually be not so good for it because it is the only major global it has that buffs damage. SO maybe it should stay, go down to rare, and this should be a completely new spell. (Crusade is buff all but only a little, charm of life is health)

[Seravy]

Another idea, for Chaos very rare :

Chain Lightning.
Target unit and the two nearest enemy units are hit by a strength 45 Lightning Bolt spell. The effect will not affect the same unit more than once and will avoid targeting units immune to magic.

Basically, this would be useful when there aren't enough targets to use Flame Strike or Apocalypse, but still more than one. It also works when the enemy uses Fire Immunity (from Insulation, Immolation, or otherwise) and there is no random chance involved.
It gets around the "spell that hits area" problem by not caring about the location of units at all, as long as there are three.
Finally, Chain Lightning is a well known spell that feels like it should be in a fantasy game.

Should later calculate how much damage output can be expected from this vs a Flame Strike, or an Apocalypse against various number of units though. At the very least, this shouldn't be a better option than those when the enemy army has at least 5-6 units.

[htester]

I didn't talk about M because I thought it was a weird new effect as there is nothing like random buffing except from chaos spells (chaos channels, doom mastery, mystical surge etc). Even more weird as it wasn't specified if the random chance was for LIFE buffs only or ALL buffs (well it was the later I know but the first option sound slighty better). I do agree with keeping the old effect and moving down a tier or at least rename the spell. I talked about vampires because they semmed to be a "closed deal" but now I am convinced they aren't. Reapers make more sense with the newly added suggestion "Reaper's Favor" (sad they are hard to implement). Chain Lightning seems something that could be implemented with less trouble. Those are the kinds of stuff that I would call GAME CHANGERS (yeah!).

[Seravy]

The thing about the new buffing spell is that it's basically a

"let's buff every normal unit I have with every spell I have for free"

effect, except that would be obviously too powerful so it happens over time, slowly. Leave it unchecked and in 4-5 years those harmless units turn to scary armies.
Normal units are about strength in numbers, so it doesn't really matter which buffs they get, as long as it does make your garrison and two dozen other stacks of normal units each slightly stronger.
"random" isn't really a necessity in the spell, it just is easier than trying to define an order that doesn't cause balance issues by giving good, or bad buffs first.

Not limiting it to Life buffs adds combo potential - 500 halberdiers are no big deal, but 500 halberiers that fly, are immune to magic and have iron skin, well...


I agree that "random" doesn't match life though, and also this is way too similar to Doom Mastery and might be simply too good even for a very rare.

...one more fundamental flaw in this idea is the maintenance cost. If the enchantment is dispelled, the unit buffs suddenly cost thousands of mana to keep and that might be a problem while recasting a global, especially for the AI.

[ksasaki]

I'm sorry, i misunderstood what "turn" means, my bad.

The refunding of mana makes it seem borderline OP and seems like you might be able to wreak havoc against the weaker resistance races like barbarians and just keep casting it over and over again. 

I like the idea of the spell, but the full refund seems a bit much, maybe a partial refund?

[MrBiscuits]

Idea for a chaos spell, all units in battle from both sides are randomly teleported around the battle field.